The Winking Lizard Tavern - Dead or Alive?

[marklingm]

Word in the street is that The Winking Lizard Tavern in Lakewood is for sale.

Too bad ... if true!

My family and I have great memories of this wonderful, Lakewood historic landmark ... from the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks Lodge No. 1350 to The Winking Lizard Tavern.

Last night, the Lakewood Winking Lizard staff told me that The Winking Lizard Tavern is not for sale. Good news!

So, the "word on the street" must be false.

The following investment offering must just be another Lakewood spoof attack: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Investment-Offering---Winking-Lizard-Lakewood--OH.html?soid=1102316595288&aid=ucyBd-mVVkE.

[marklingm]

Because you never know when “spoofers” will attack Lakewood next, I have attached a PDF of what is currently posted at http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Investment-Offering---Winking-Lizard-Lakewood--OH.html?soid=1102316595288&aid=ucyBd-mVVkE.

[Bret Callentine]

hope it sticks around. I love how they took the building that was there and made it work for their purpose, instead of ripping it up and building the same thing that's in a dozen other communities.

Also, they've got one of my favorite side dishes... "preferred" broccoli. (not on the menu, but just ask the server for it)

[Michael Loje]

If you look at the Ostendorf Morris ad, you will see the building is UNDER LEASE to the Winking Lizard. Apparently, the building (not the business) is owned by an outside investor, who wants to sell the building. Winking Lizard probably never owned it, and probably doesn't own the buildings at any of their locations. Heck, it could still be the Lakewood Elks that own it. Remember, the Elks owned the land under the Pick n Pay/Finast/Tops/Giant Eagle for over 40 years.

[marklingm]

If you look at the Ostendorf Morris ad, you will see the building is UNDER LEASE to the Winking Lizard. Apparently, the building (not the business) is owned by an outside investor, who wants to sell the building.

I agree, Michael.

I find the first two bullets interesting compared to the last three bullets.

Compare ...

* Absolute NNN Leased Winking Lizard
* Lease includes strong rental increases in year six

... with ...

* Building has 8 lane bowling alley in basement and fully finished second floor
* Great frontage and curb appeal on Detroit Ave.
* Winking Lizard has put approx. $1,000,000 of improvements into building

An absolute NNN lease "is a net lease where the tenant agrees to pay a monthly lump sum base rent as well as the property taxes, the property insurance, and the maintenance. Under an absolute triple net lease there are no legal defenses if a tenant fails to meet his responsibilities." http://www.realtechre.com/terminology.htm. That is a pretty good lease ... for the landlord.

Is The Winking Lizard Tavern in year six thereby looking to pay "strong rental increases" to a new investor?

Given the growing "Detroit Avenue Chow Line," will the The Winking Lizard Tavern be dead or alive at the end of the lease?

Time will tell ... I hope it is alive.

If it is dead, the last three bullets should attract a new tenant.

Also, they've got one of my favorite side dishes... "preferred" broccoli. (not on the menu, but just ask the server for it)

Great suggestion, Bret!

I’ll place an order on my next visit and report back.

Thanks!

Matt

[Michael Loje]

Keep in mind, the Lizard is probably under a much longer lease than six years. This kind of building transaction go on all the time.
The myth of the "Detroit Ave. Chow Line", if it exists at all, would relate only to places that draw their clientele from their immediate area. A place like the Lizard, like at least a dozen other places in Lakewood, draws from well beyond Lakewood's borders. Think about it; more than a few people in Westlake tonight are going to say "I'm going to go to the Lakewood Lizard tonight". How many Westlakers are going to say "I'm going to go the Lakewood Taco Bell tonight"?

[marklingm]

I have admittedly been "speculative" throughout this post in the hope that City Hall would jump in with some "facts."

Winking Lizard probably never owned it, and probably doesn't own the buildings at any of their locations.

Maybe the property is actually owned by "Lakewood Lizard LLC" ... and not an outside investor?

Heck, it could still be the Lakewood Elks that own it. Remember, the Elks owned the land under the Pick n Pay/Finast/Tops/Giant Eagle for over 40 years.

I never thought the Elks should have sold that property. It was a mistake.

The myth of the "Detroit Ave. Chow Line", if it exists at all ...

The "Detroit Avenue Chow Line," is no myth. It even has a Facebook page.


So, the question remains: Is The Winking Lizard Tavern dead or alive in Lakewood?

If the decision has not already been made to move The Winking Lizard Tavern out of Lakewood, then we need to go and support The Winking Lizard Tavern!

Otherwise, The Winking Lizard Tavern will be added to the growing list of Lakewood businesses closing their doors and we will all come on the Deck and complain about why The Winking Lizard Tavern is no longer in Lakewood.

Matt

[Thealexa Becker]

I have admittedly been "speculative" throughout this post in the hope that City Hall would jump in with some "facts."

Rather than be speculative and raise a question with no answers, might it not be more useful to go and get answers to some of these questions yourself and then post on the Deck with ALL of the correct information?

[Jim O'Bryan]

I have admittedly been "speculative" throughout this post in the hope that City Hall would jump in with some "facts."

Rather than be speculative and raise a question with no answers, might it not be more useful to go and get answers to some of these questions yourself and then post on the Deck with ALL of the correct information?

Thealexa

Matt Markling is one of the top Education Lawyers in the State. His law practice is still located
in Bath, Ohio, even though he has repeatedly tried to bring it to Lakewood with no success.

It seems that it is asking a lot for Matt who uncovered the rumor, tracked down the
"current sale" and then follow it up. This project is very much a community conversation,
a person jumps in and stands in as long as they care, can afford, or have interest in.

While I could look at the Markling post and ask why didn't he do more, the fact is he did
a lot of the "heavy lifting" already, and has shared that base of information and perhaps
others can pick up the load and report what they know. While nation hyper-local projects
have hundreds of millions to spend on reporting, we rely more on the good neighbor
policy, and a friendlier more laid back way to do things.

Perhaps, if you are on summer break, and you are interested, you might call them. Then
consider sharing the information with the rest of us. Good neighbors talking over the digital fence.

I believe the building is for sale, Winking Lizard is negotiating, and the owner listed it to
make his play in the negotiations. I find it hard to believe that Winking Lizard would put
$1 million into a building they do not own, or have 100 year lease on. But stranger things
have happened.

FWIW

.

[marklingm]

Matt Markling is one of the top Education Lawyers in the State. His law practice is still located in Bath, Ohio, even though he has repeatedly tried to bring it to Lakewood with no success.

Thanks, Jim. My attempts to work with City Hall to move my law practice to Lakewood will make a great article in The Lakewood Observer. That experience convinced me that there is no "plan" in City Hall to bring outside businesses to Lakewood. I wasn't even asking for a tax abatement! Again, that is a subject for another day ...

It seems that it is asking a lot for Matt who uncovered the rumor, tracked down the "current sale" and then follow it up. This project is very much a community conversation, a person jumps in and stands in as long as they care, can afford, or have interest in.

While I could look at the Markling post and ask why didn't he do more, the fact is he did a lot of the "heavy lifting" already, and has shared that base of information and perhaps others can pick up the load and report what they know. While nation hyper-local projects have hundreds of millions to spend on reporting, we rely more on the good neighbor policy, and a friendlier more laid back way to do things.

Let me take a shot at addressing Thealexa's post, Jim.

I have admittedly been "speculative" throughout this post in the hope that City Hall would jump in with some "facts."

Rather than be speculative and raise a question with no answers, might it not be more useful to go and get answers to some of these questions yourself and then post on the Deck with ALL of the correct information?

How would you suggest one both raise a question and an answer in dealing with a private entity's sale of real property, Thealexa?

How about this:

Word in the street is that The Winking Lizard Tavern in Lakewood is for sale. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I spoke to the staff at The Winking Lizard Tavern and they do not know whether the building is for sale. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I think that the property upon which The Winking Lizard sits is owned by "Lakewood Lizard LLC" and not an outside investor as the listing may suggest. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I think that The Winking Lizard is moving because it is its own tenant/landlord and an absolute NNN lease is good for the Lakewood Lizard LLC, which may happen to also beThe Winking Lizard. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I think that the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks Lodge No. 1350 never should have sold the property to begin with and I was a member at the time. Does anyone agree?

I think that "Detroit Avenue Chow Line" exists and even has a Facebook page. Does anyone know whether this is true?

My family and I have great memories of this wonderful, Lakewood historic landmark ... from the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks Lodge No. 1350 to The Winking Lizard Tavern. Does anyone share similar great memories?

I hope that The Winking Lizard Tavern stays in Lakewood. Does anyone share this hope?

If the decision has not already been made to move The Winking Lizard Tavern out of Lakewood, then I hope we all go and support The Winking Lizard Tavern. Does anyone share this hope?

I hope that The Winking Lizard Tavern will not be added to the growing list of Lakewood businesses closing their doors. Does anyone share this hope?

I hope that people will not come on the Deck and complain about why The Winking Lizard Tavern is no longer in Lakewood, if there is ample time to support the business now. Does anyone share this hope?

I hope that City Hall is doing something to keep The Winking Lizard Tavern in Lakewood that is not a tax abatement. Does anyone share this hope?

I do not know what is happening with The Winking Lizard Tavern based upon the above posts. Does anyone?

I do not know what City Hall is doing relating to The Winking Lizard Tavern based upon the above posts. Does anyone?

Does anyone have any "facts" to share on this subject?

I "speculate" that City Hall knows what is going on with the property upon which The Winking Lizard Tavern sits given the "fact" that City Hall is very fast to jump on the Deck to correct mere "speculation" but remains silent here. That is my opinion. Not a question, Thealexa.

I believe the building is for sale, Winking Lizard is negotiating, and the owner listed it to make his play in the negotiations. I find it hard to believe that Winking Lizard would put $1 million into a building they do not own, or have 100 year lease on. But stranger things have happened.

Yes, stranger things have happened.

Matt

[J Hrlec]

How about this:

Word in the street is that The Winking Lizard Tavern in Lakewood is for sale. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I spoke to the staff at The Winking Lizard Tavern and they do not know whether the building is for sale. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I think that the property upon which The Winking Lizard sits is owned by "Lakewood Lizard LLC" and not an outside investor as the listing may suggest. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I think that The Winking Lizard is moving because it is its own tenant/landlord and an absolute NNN lease is good for the Lakewood Lizard LLC, which may happen to also beThe Winking Lizard. Does anyone know whether this is true?

I think that the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks Lodge No. 1350 never should have sold the property to begin with and I was a member at the time. Does anyone agree?

I think that "Detroit Avenue Chow Line" exists and even has a Facebook page. Does anyone know whether this is true?

My family and I have great memories of this wonderful, Lakewood historic landmark ... from the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks Lodge No. 1350 to The Winking Lizard Tavern. Does anyone share similar great memories?

I hope that The Winking Lizard Tavern stays in Lakewood. Does anyone share this hope?

If the decision has not already been made to move The Winking Lizard Tavern out of Lakewood, then I hope we all go and support The Winking Lizard Tavern. Does anyone share this hope?

I hope that The Winking Lizard Tavern will not be added to the growing list of Lakewood businesses closing their doors. Does anyone share this hope?

I hope that people will not come on the Deck and complain about why The Winking Lizard Tavern is no longer in Lakewood, if there is ample time to support the business now. Does anyone share this hope?

I hope that City Hall is doing something to keep The Winking Lizard Tavern in Lakewood that is not a tax abatement. Does anyone share this hope?

I do not know what is happening with The Winking Lizard Tavern based upon the above posts. Does anyone?

I do not know what City Hall is doing relating to The Winking Lizard Tavern based upon the above posts. Does anyone?

Does anyone have any "facts" to share on this subject?

Yes, stranger things have happened.

Matt

Those are good questions to get feedback from posters here on the topic and express one's own opinions.

I would agree though... if you're looking from answers specifically from City Hall it would probably work best (and most likely quickest) if you went directly to them with your inquiry.

Although many do stop by here, I am assuming that this forum really is not an official Lakewood City Hall answer board.

[marklingm]

Those are good questions to get feedback from posters here on the topic and express one's own opinions.

I would agree though... if you're looking from answers specifically from City Hall it would probably work best (and most likely quickest) if you went directly to them with your inquiry.

Although many do stop by here, I am assuming that this forum really is not an official Lakewood City Hall answer board.

John,

I have countless experiences in dealing with City Hall ... as a school board member, businessperson, landlord, homeowner, volunteer, block captain, parent, and citizen.

I know how to get a hold of City Hall ... and I also know when City Hall does not want to get a hold of me.

So, give me some credit here. I'm not new to how this forum is viewed by our elected/anointed/appointed officials.

The Observation Deck is viewed. It is viewed by City Hall. And City Hall jumps in when it wants to jump in.

And, as you stated above, I am trying to toss some questions/comments out to get feedback from posters, like you, here on this topic. I want The Winking Lizard Tavern to stay in Lakewood!

If and when City Hall wants to jump in here, City Hall will make an appearance ... one way or another.

Matt

[Mike Coleman]

I think Mr. Markling's questions and observations are excellent, but let me add the following.

* What is Lakewood Lizard LLC; who owns Lakewood Lizard LLC? Do they own anything else?
* Does Lakewood Lizard LLC own any other Winking Lizard locations?
* If Lakewood Lizard LLC doesn't own the other 13 Winking Lizard locations, who does?
* Why does the Independence location, for instance, seem to be owned by TMST Lizardville LLC?
* Are other locations owned by similar LLC's?
* Have other Winking Lizard locations been sold or put up for sale in recent years without the restaurant operations changing?

These, along with Matt's questions, seem like reasonable questions for an editor to have one of his reporters follow up on. Maybe I'll pass it along to my friends at the PD since it seems no local reporter has the initiative.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Mike

You could have called the realtor, or the bar, why call a PD reporter? You have the same
abilities he does, it's local, and you're interested. The PD reporter will never have the same
level of interest you do, or Matt, or any of the people in this thread. It is not top secret
rocket surgery, it is just asking questions of regular people. Don't be fooled by the faux
gates at the kingdom of the Fourth Estate, after all...

“The most esteemed journalists are precisely the most servile. For it is by making
themselves useful to the powerful that they gain access to the ‘best’ sources.” Walter Karp

Me, I care more about what city hall is doing with our public money and property than
what a private business is doing with their private property, but then I have never been
the nosy type. But this city has a long history of looking into private companies books
over the books of the public officials or non-profits so I do understand.

But to play along, and harmless speculation is always fun, to add to the question list...

Why are they asking for the exact same amount that the Christian Science Church is listed for? Are they moving farther West on the Detroit Avenue Chow Line.

How will this affect the schools?

Is it a lower price, that what it has been appraised at before?

.

[Michael Loje]

Mike,
Winking Lizard has a location by Gateway downtown. They lease that location. Their locations in shopping centers are also leased. Like most restaurant/bar operators will say, they are in the restaurant/bar business, not the property business.

Many people feel that every business is in constant contact with city hall. The are not, and city hall probably knows no more than you do.

Anyone who knows anyone who admits to being the keeper of the detroit ave. chow line Facebook page, please let me know.

Jim, you brought up an interesting point, and if Matthew has been getting rebuffed in his attempts to move his law practice to Lakewood, that's something we should hear about sooner rather than later.