Fairview Park Starts Holy War With Lakewood

[Missy Limkemann]

Did anyone else get the flyer in their mail? I got one yesterday. Then I ask this question...what would have happened if we did this in their city?

[Scott Meeson]

NO BOUNDARIES!

[Colleen Wing]

It is as simple as this Jim, the answers to one of the biggest issues in Lakewood.
The reason this made a thread and the conversation has gone on for as long as it has.

IT HAS BEEN OVER A WEEK AND THE SIGNS ARE STILL THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

B*tch a little, talk a little, pick, pick, b*tch a lot, pick a little more....

[Corey Rossen]

Why is Jim winking at me in his Mayoral campaign photo?

Corey

[Jim O'Bryan]

B*tch a little, talk a little, pick, pick, b*tch a lot, pick a little more....

Might be your style, and I appreciate you sharing.

It is as simple as this Jim, the answers to one of the biggest issues in Lakewood.
The reason this made a thread and the conversation has gone on for as long as it has.

IT HAS BEEN OVER A WEEK AND THE SIGNS ARE STILL THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Colleen

I can not answer for the city, maybe they are on litter or graffiti detail, naaaawwwww.

But I do know of a certain law department that is certainly looking into it, and the potential
fines for littering and illegal signage, that will go into our city's coffers.

Between you and me, you have to admit Jesus, nor God would be down with littering, or
what amounts to all out warfare on H2O's Easter Egg Hunt. WWJD?

FWIW

.

[Colleen Wing]

Between you and me...we both know the city has better things to worry about...and so does Jesus...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Between you and me...we both know the city has better things to worry about...and so does Jesus...

Colleen

I do not know that. It would seem that we are now taken up by Shawn going from wanting a
"Pants Store" to Shawn wanting a Hotel, I am sure with the deep thought that maybe
some of those people would need pants too.

Meanwhile our parks are closing, officially not because of cost or crime, but officially we do
not have the man power to stop graffiti and safety issues(?)! Maybe this fine would be
enough to keep the city's park open? Of course why would we close a park over one
person's tagging, while we rejoice on an out of city business tagging all of Lakewood?

Why would we prosecute "India Food Emporium" over an illegal sign, the p descended
1.5" to far, and never even blink when 65+ illegal signs from a business outside of
Lakewood pop up all over the place? Was that profiling? Selective enforcement?

But this truly underlines what is wrong with America. If they were abortion clinics,
or planned parenthood signs, you would be freaking out. But because they are from a
business you like, well let's all collectively just look the other way. No matter how many
times a person legitimately can point you to facts in books and studies that underline it
could be detrimental to the community of Lakewood on the whole. No matter how many
times it is pointed out that the signage is illegal, because you are for it, let's all look the
other way.

As for Jesus, there is no way I could answer for him, even though millions of others have.

But I have this feeling, from reading what common man has written about him 100 years+
after his death, I have this sneaky feeling, he would say, "use the eggs to feed the poor
that cannot afford to take care of themselves. Instead of massive 4 color mailings, sit
with those that are sick, and wash their feet, and make them comfortable."

But what do I know?

Melissa

At least the mailings were a legal way to spread their message.

.

[Scott Meeson]

Between you and me...we both know the city has better things to worry about...and so does Jesus...

Colleen

I do not know that. It would seem that we are now taken up by Shawn going from want a
"Pants Store" to Shawn wanting a Hotel, I am sure with the deep thought that maybe
some of those people would need pants too.

Meanwhile our parks are closing officially not because of cost or crime, but officially we do not
have the man power to stop graffiti and safety issues(?)! Maybe this fine would be enough to
keep the city's park open? Of course why would we close a park over one person's tagging,
while we rejoice on an out of city business tagging all of Lakewood?

Why would we prosecute "India Food Emporium" over an illegal sign, they p descended
1.5" to far, and never even blink when 65+ illegal signs from a business outside of
Lakewood pop up all over the place? Was that profiling? Selective enforcement?

But this truly understand what is wrong with America. If they were abortion clinics,
or planned parenthood signs, you would be freaking out. But because they are from a
business you like, well let's all collectively just look the other way. No matter how many
times a person legitimately can point you to facts in books and studies that underline it
could be detrimental to the community of Lakewood on the whole. No matter how many
times it is pointed out that the signage is illegal, because you are for it, let's all look the
other way.

As for Jesus, there is no way I could answer for him, even though millions of others have.

Bu I have this feeling, from reading what common man has written about him 100 years+
after his death. I have this sneaky feeling, he would say, "use the eggs to feed the poor
that cannot afford to take care of themselves. Instead of massive 4 color mailings, sit
with those that are sick, and wash their feet, and make them comfortable."

But what do I know?

Melissa

At least the mailings were a legal way to spread their message.

.

Jim,

It's my understanding that India Food Emporium was given numerous opportunities to correct the situation.(?) Wouldn't you prosecute for failure to comply with the law?

Tell me how those signs (egg hunt) are damaging Lakewood? It's my understanding that the responsible party is removing the signs after the event takes place. Are you really telling us that there is criminal intent/damaging with those signs as compared to graffiti on a kids playground/equipment...is that what you're saying?

There really hasn't been much outrage over the parks closing early. Three readings at city council, not so much as a jab at council during that process. Anyway, don't you think closing the parks early will preserve a healthier/happier experience for those who use the parks during the day?

I'm not so sure H2O is having an egg hunt this year...any proof they are?

Scott Meeson

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

It's my understanding that India Food Emporium was givennumerous opportunities to correct the situation.(?) Wouldn't you prosecute for failure to comply with the law?

Tell me how those signs (egg hunt) are damaging Lakewood? It's my
understanding that the responsible party is removing the signs after the event takes
place. Are you really telling us that there is criminal intent/damaging with those signs as compared to graffiti on a kids playground/equipment...is that what you're saying?

There really hasn't been much outrage over the parks closing early. Three readings at city council, not so much as a jab at council during that process. Anyway, don't you think closing the parks early will preserve a healthier/happier experience for those who use the parks during the day?

I'm not so sure H2O is having an egg hunt this year...any proof they are?

Scott Meeson

Scott

India Garden, stop by some afternoon, ask to see the paperwork. If I an not there just ask
for the India Garden Folder. You know, I have an idea, let's have lunch at India Garden
next week, I'll bring the file. I did the design, what happened after that...

Two Lakewood Easter Egg hunts this year. I do believe I saw H20 as one of the sponsors,
but not an H20 Easter Egg Hunt. Maybe the outside competition is too tough now.

But let's keep their name out of. I have not used the name of the church, this is not an
attack, or trashing the church, not the holiday, nor Easter Egg hunts. I hope they have so
many people they run out of eggs. H20 is a wonderful program and I am not a
spokesperson for them nor have I ever been.

What it is about is "trashing a community with signs that are illegal" and, an interesting
sidenote on how churches play into being the strong threads of a strong community tapestry.
Do not get side track by the rhetoric. Illegal, and temptation. That would be one with
rules in stone, and one about human nature. The human nature one is completely up
to debate and speculation. However the illegal one is ahhhh errrr ahhhh illegal.

And this once again plays out in our park conversation. Are we selectively enforcing laws?
If we are, and we might be, does it open the city and/or the police to litigation, like we are
currently going through right now. And with something like this, along with A-Frames on
Detroit, they will start to pop up everywhere. OR, the city ends up in court when they are
taken down.

Parks Closing
Scott, I am not sure I know of a single person outside of Joe, Shawn and Ryan that thinks
its necessary what alone a good idea. Mass outrage? Should that be the bar for stopping
imposing restrictions on a free society. Are you telling me you are for closing the lit parks
that currently have legal activities run by the city and rec department, sometimes to
midnight (baseball) at dusk? OR are we once again at the door of selective enforcement?
Where is the equality with Lakewood Park? Every night through summer Kauffman and
Madison Park have baseball games that last way past duck. Lakewood Park has Sunday
concerts, the 4th of July, that's it. The law does not even make sense. Add selective
enforcement and "those people" we might as well just give Avery Friedman an office at
City Hall.

So Scott, as I would ask you if we were at on Observer meeting or on the street. Are you
saying the selective enforcement of laws is good? Would it be better if those laws were
based on color, gender, nationality, age, or religion?

Damaging the city. If the reasons above are not enough, and I have seen some very
smart people laugh at global warming which has far more science behind it.
But, not as many case law studies. Lets look at the history of churches, and what they
mean to a community, and how and why they go close, and the impact on that
community when they do.

Ahhhhhh lets start another thread for that, after the weekend.


"Not my fault, I swear. Have a Happy Easter!"

.

[Scott Meeson]

Jim,

It's my understanding that India Food Emporium was givennumerous opportunities to correct the situation.(?) Wouldn't you prosecute for failure to comply with the law?

Tell me how those signs (egg hunt) are damaging Lakewood? It's my
understanding that the responsible party is removing the signs after the event takes
place. Are you really telling us that there is criminal intent/damaging with those signs as compared to graffiti on a kids playground/equipment...is that what you're saying?

There really hasn't been much outrage over the parks closing early. Three readings at city council, not so much as a jab at council during that process. Anyway, don't you think closing the parks early will preserve a healthier/happier experience for those who use the parks during the day?

I'm not so sure H2O is having an egg hunt this year...any proof they are?

Scott Meeson

Scott

India Garden, stop by some afternoon, ask to see the paperwork. If I an not there just ask
for the India Garden Folder. You know, I have an idea, let's have lunch at India Garden
next week, I'll bring the file. I did the design, what happened after that...

Two Lakewood Easter Egg hunts this year. I do believe I saw H20 as one of the sponsors,
but not an H20 Easter Egg Hunt. Maybe the outside competition is too tough now.

But let's keep their name out of. I have not used the name of the church, this is not an
attack, or trashing the church, not the holiday, nor Easter Egg hunts. I hope they have so
many people they run out of eggs. H20 is a wonderful program and I am not a
spokesperson for them nor have I ever been.

What it is about is "trashing a community with signs that are illegal" and, an interesting
sidenote on how churches play into being the strong threads of a strong community tapestry.
Do not get side track by the rhetoric. Illegal, and temptation. That would be one with
rules in stone, and one about human nature. The human nature one is completely up
to debate and speculation. However the illegal one is ahhhh errrr ahhhh illegal.

And this once again plays out in our park conversation. Are we selectively enforcing laws?
If we are, and we might be, does it open the city and/or the police to litigation, like we are
currently going through right now. And with something like this, along with A-Frames on
Detroit, they will start to pop up everywhere. OR, the city ends up in court when they are
taken down.

Parks Closing
Scott, I am not sure I know of a single person outside of Joe, Shawn and Ryan that thinks
its necessary what alone a good idea. Mass outrage? Should that be the bar for stopping imposing restrictions on a free society. Are you telling me you are for closing the lit parks
that currently have legal activities run by the city and rec department, sometimes to
midnight (baseball) at dusk? OR are we once again at the door of selective enforcement?
Where is the equality with Lakewood Park? Every night through summer Kauffman and
Madison Park have baseball games that last way past duck. Lakewood Park has Sunday
concerts, the 4th of July, that's it. The law does not even make sense. Add selective
enforcement and "those people" we might as well just give Avery Friedman an office at
City Hall.

So Scott, as I would ask you if we were at on Observer meeting or on the street. Are you
saying the selective enforcement of laws is good? Would it be better if those laws were
based on color, gender, nationality, age, or religion?

Damaging the city. If the reasons above are not enough, and I have seen some very
smart people laugh at global warming which has far more science behind it.
But, not as many case law studies. Lets look at the history of churches, and what they
mean to a community, and how and why they go close, and the impact on that
community when they do.

Ahhhhhh lets start another thread for that, after the weekend.


"Not my fault, I swear. Have a Happy Easter!"

.

Jim,

Park Closings: I do believe a majority of council voted to make park closings more coordinated in nature. I do believe there has been an exception for organized activities that take place at Kaufmann and Madison Parks. Lakewood Park apparently has more lighting, visibility and access in order to protect, serve and preserve. What tea leaves are you viewing or reading that leads us down the path of selective enforcement and the services of Avery Friedman?

My preference is to have the freedom to walk through our lit parks at night. On the other hand, I'm certainly willing to make small sacrifices if it means preserving the enjoyment/safety of others. I think you and Matt Markling deserve some credit for bringing those enjoyment issues to the forefront:http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10433. Action has been taken and we shall see how it remedies the concerns/issues.

If you could, do you know of any exceptions for signs and how it relates to religious entities?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

Park Closings: I do believe a majority of council voted to make park closings more coordinated in nature. I do believe there has been an exception for organized activities that take place at Kaufmann and Madison Parks. Lakewood Park apparently has more lighting, visibility and access in order to protect, serve and preserve. What tea leaves are you viewing or reading that leads us down the path of selective enforcement and the services of Avery Friedman?

A majority of council did support the motion. I have never indicated anything else. I have never said it did not go through proper
channels or procedure. But did they agree with it or why? How about the most forgotten person in this equation, the residents?
How about the simple fact, that closing a park makes it easier for the criminal activity to happen, after all less people there better
chance to get away with mischief. They are not increasing patrols, but probably decreasing patrols. Everything I have ever read
which is limited is that busy active streets and parks are healthy and safe parks, and lend to a healthier community. I have not seen
where banning people from parks, adds to the success or even equal enjoyment and safety.


[quote="Scott Meeson"]
My preference is to have the freedom to walk through our lit parks at night. On the other hand, I'm certainly willing to make small sacrifices if it means preserving the enjoyment/safety of others. I think you and Matt Markling deserve some credit for bringing those enjoyment issues to the forefront:http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10433. Action has been taken and we shall see how it remedies the concerns/issues.
[quote="Scott Meeson"]

Scott

First, this is the mindless thought process I would expect from others. I point out there is graffiti on the slide at Kaufmann Park,
and now, that is the reason they are closing Kauffman Park and Madison Park? Because of me? Wow! For the record, the test is done, the graffiti was cleaned off then next
day, and there has been no more graffiti placed on anything. With the park open to its current hours and format. So, why should
we go through the extra cost of remaking signs? It would seem that we should be congratulated as bringing this to the attention
of the city and cleaned up but the discussion that followed made others more aware of citizen involvement.

You saying this is a remedy is akin to finding a dead body and thinking it was taken care of simply by not looking at it, or
more to the point, making looking at it illegal. You really think that is a remedy?



As for the religious signage, I do not know of any, and I would hope there is none. For decades, businesses in Lakewood were
only allowed to put their name on their storefront once. I have photos of 2 signs on each corner of an intersection. Two of the
corners are public property, two are private property. While adding to the debate, as potentially we can bring in "free speech"
it still does not make the signage legal.

[Scott Meeson]

Jim,

Park Closings: I do believe a majority of council voted to make park closings more coordinated in nature. I do believe there has been an exception for organized activities that take place at Kaufmann and Madison Parks. Lakewood Park apparently has more lighting, visibility and access in order to protect, serve and preserve. What tea leaves are you viewing or reading that leads us down the path of selective enforcement and the services of Avery Friedman?

A majority of council did support the motion. I have never indicated anything else. I have never said it did not go through proper
channels or procedure. But did they agree with it or why? How about the most forgotten person in this equation, the residents?
How about the simple fact, that closing a park makes it easier for the criminal activity to happen, after all less people there better
chance to get away with mischief. They are not increasing patrols, but probably decreasing patrols. Everything I have ever read
which is limited is that busy active streets and parks are healthy and safe parks, and lend to a healthier community. I have not seen
where banning people from parks, adds to the success or even equal enjoyment and safety.

My preference is to have the freedom to walk through our lit parks at night. On the other hand, I'm certainly willing to make small sacrifices if it means preserving the enjoyment/safety of others. I think you and Matt Markling deserve some credit for bringing those enjoyment issues to the forefront:http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10433. Action has been taken and we shall see how it remedies the concerns/issues.

Scott

First, this is the mindless thought process I would expect from others. I point out there is graffiti on the slide at Kaufmann Park,
and now, that is the reason they are closing Kauffman Park and Madison Park? Because of me?Wow! For the record, the test is done, the graffiti was cleaned off then next
day, and there has been no more graffiti placed on anything. With the park open to its current hours and format. So, why should
we go through the extra cost of remaking signs? It would seem that we should be congratulated as bringing this to the attention
of the city and cleaned up but the discussion that followed made others more aware of citizen involvement.

You saying this is a remedy is akin to finding a dead body and thinking it was taken care of simply by not looking at it, or
more to the point, making looking at it illegal. You really think that is a remedy?



As for the religious signage, I do not know of any, and I would hope there is none. For decades, businesses in Lakewood were
only allowed to put their name on their storefront once. I have photos of 2 signs on each corner of an intersection. Two of the
corners are public property, two are private property. While adding to the debate, as potentially we can bring in "free speech"
it still does not make the signage legal.

Jim,

If I was only named "Jane":





Scott

[Jim O'Bryan]

Jim,

If I was only named "Jane":





Scott

Scott


Only if it was not discussed.

Conversation always adds to the understanding of a subject. If it does not,
then I would hope it encourages people to look for those answers.

Very smart people in their fields make mistakes.

People working part-time, on things they have little knowledge of, make much bigger mistakes.

You and I are taxpayers. So, we bought our ticket, let's talk about the show.


.

[Myra Beckrest]

I thought I'd comment on the topic after a chat this evening.
A friend of the family (who does not live in Lakewood) attended this egg hunt with his son. The children were separated into age groups, and he said that the smaller children were a bit confused so the parents raced around to find eggs for them.

He ended up scooping up his son and leaving after getting knocked around a few times, and even one parent who felt it necessary to take eggs out of his sons hands!

Needless to say he was less than impressed.

[David Lay]

I thought I'd comment on the topic after a chat this evening.
A friend of the family (who does not live in Lakewood) attended this egg hunt with his son. The children were separated into age groups, and he said that the smaller children were a bit confused so the parents raced around to find eggs for them.

He ended up scooping up his son and leaving after getting knocked around a few times, and even one parent who felt it necessary to take eggs out of his sons hands!

Needless to say he was less than impressed.

I can hear the parents circling...the helicopters remind me of Apocalypse Now...