Lakewood Not Walkable for Seniors

[Jim O'Bryan]

Not a very big area, but they have a bench.

I guess this depends on your definition of a "big area".

The distance from the side of the building to the edge of the curb in front of Sullivan's is 14 1/2 ft.

The distance from the edge of the building where 2 dad's is on Detroit to the edge of the curb is only 8 ft and the south side of the street only has 9 ft.

I am not trying to be a pain, but to suggest there is enough room for benches on most of Detroit is just not possible without creating other risks.

Maybe some of these active folks that want to walk but can't physically do it for long should consider a walker with a seat. Here is a Google search with quite a few options.

http://www.google.com/search?gcx=w&sour ... 80&bih=989

Maybe the facilities where they live could invest in a couple and everyone could share, I am sure they don't all go out at the same time.

Ryan

While much of this post make sense it does underline many of the real issues in this city.

Is there a plan and what is it. What is the city trying to be. I know that there is a vast
majority on council that sees Lakewood as a vibrant town for young people. I know that
there are others on council that respect and want to make sure those that have been here
both in Lakewood and on Earth the longest want to be taken care of. And so the issues
start. Hanging out at the Root or on Detroit, followed by no loitering signs. It plays out
in so many places. Kaufman Park and the neighbors, etc..

Since day one of it's existence it has always been a wonderful bedroom community for
both young and old, and all levels of middle class. So if the city is willing to spend money
grant or not on senior busing, then a skatepark seems like a fair trade. Bring hoops back
(have they put up the new hoops at Lakewood Park? ), and bike racks, then maybe more
benches for seniors and others who have been known to sit occasionally is a fair request.

BUT ARE WE A WALKABLE CITY? ARE WE A GREEN CITY? ARE WE TRYING T BE OR IS IT
JUST HYPE?

We continuously build building right on the sidewalk with very little green space. We are
missing choices to build back, giving us more space for green space, for benches, for
outside dining and living. Why? There was a slightly psychotic plan to build up DowntowN
closing Detroit Ave. and allowing for a ring road around the DowntowN area. Which would
finally give DowntowN the green space and gazebo a few have dreamed of since signing
on to the "MainStreet Program." It would also fulfill the fantasy of another small handful
of people to finally have a "mall" worth talking about!

Recently I read where a very green council person wanted to grow the areas of commerce
on Detroit and Madison while also respecting the residents in the neighborhoods. Just the
structure of the comment shows, COMMERCIAL FIRST, screw the bedroom community,
though we will try to respect them. I take this to mean, we will get cab fair home, and
maybe a call next time they run for office, for another date, to tell us how pretty our eyes are.

So what are we walkable? Bikeable? Liveable? For who? Those that have invested in this
community deserve and need to know. Do I live 10 houses off Detroit, or next to the new
ring-road bringing people to the Detroit Chow Line Food Court? If the middle of Lakewood
gives up its heart, soul and peace and quiet, what sacrifices are made to the north and
south? Common sense and millions of examples would show us it makes more sense to
develop along i-90. Or the entire city could cash in and enjoy the benefits of developing
the Gold Coast west, and along the lake and river. (Yes, I am talking of where I live) Why
are these areas never discussed or studied in development ideas? It would seem ideal,
working around a state route has massive limitations.

Yeah we still struggle with who and what we are and more importantly what we want to be.

I was reading report after report from other cities. They all mention "Their brand..." "What
we are looking for..." Just last week I sat through an Annual Report for Campus District, Inc.
where we have our newest paper. The discussion up to Lee Fischer's comments, was about
needing to define the brand, tell the story, finding like minded people that fit into the future
they have planned for the District. Addressing these topics were Lakewood's Ned Hill, Dean
of the Levin College of Urban Affairs, and Paul Velope of City Architecture, the group that
did our Detroit Avenue Streetscape.

If they feel that is important, then maybe we should to.

Ryan, Benches, placed throughout the city is not an evil idea, I think we can agree on that.
How many, who pays, what style, open for discussion, but for what we have given kids,
parents, we can kick the seniors a couple benches. Unless city hall no longer wants them
around, which many think. Then the city should tell them that.

Random thoughts.

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[Charlie Page]

So if the city is willing to spend money grant or not on senior busing, then a skatepark seems like a fair trade. Bring hoops back (have they put up the new hoops at Lakewood Park? ), and bike racks, then maybe more benches for seniors and others who have been known to sit occasionally is a fair request.

My wife has used a similar line on me before..."if you can spend money on that then I can spend money on this". The trouble with that is we don't have enough to spend on everything we want. It also tends to escalate until both of us are upset at each other.

Lakewood's 2011 budget for the Division on Aging is $1,364,000. Budgets for the Division of Youth is $781,000 and Division of Early Childhood is $86,000. Hardly equal. I’m not saying it should be equal but pointing out there is a large disparity between the three. You see where I’m going with this?

A better approach would be for our Councilman to present the idea to Public Works and let the experts decide whether or not benches will work in that area and code permits them. I, for one, am not an expert in building codes or public safety so I couldn’t make that decision on my own.

It would also help if more than two people called our Ward 3 Councilman and expressed interest in seeing benches along Detroit. I don't know...maybe more did call?

BTW, didn’t I read in Chris Bindel’s column in the Observer that Council is considering donating 20 "well used" benches from the dog park? Why not put a few on Detroit and test the scenario out?

[Shawn Juris]

For the sake of clarity, the initial call regarding adding benches to Detroit Avenue around the Westerly was responded to. After a brief discussion with Public Works, the criteria identified was relayed that there were space limitations and that possibilities could be explored in partnering with businesses.
Benches as well as other public space features have been considered as part of the Main Street program's streetscape. I am not opposed to them but as with most everything consideration needs to be given to priorities and how practical the solution is.
My understanding at the conclusion of the first call was that together we were going to look to identify spaces that were wide enough to accomodate a bench and work on approaching the property owners.

[sharon kinsella]

That may be your understanding Shawn, but you were in no way effective in conveying that to my friend or to me.

You seem to be so reasonable now. Very interesting. You wouldn't even have a discussion you just kept shooting off negative comebacks. Not good, not good at all.

[tina cenname]

hi !! i'm tina cenname - the young disabled senior who lives at the westerly WHO went to dennis kucinichs office to ask about the aid of benches down detroit ave. . the nice man i spoke to there phoned mr. bullock who , i believe said "great idea" & yes , he thought there were funds available within the city to do this. i received a call from mr. juris along with an e-mail that said " it would be a maintainence nightmare". & "there's no room on the sidewalks". so oh well , i guess i once again feel that this won't be a problem til these people become disabled seniors themselves. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE SENIORS IN LAKEWOOD. remember about...BAD KARMA-gentlemen... tina cenname

[Ryan Salo]

Lakewood's 2011 budget for the Division on Aging is $1,364,000. Budgets for the Division of Youth is $781,000 and Division of Early Childhood is $86,000. Hardly equal. I’m not saying it should be equal but pointing out there is a large disparity between the three.

Charlie,
Thank you for pointing out the financial commitment Lakewood residents have made to the elderly that chose to live here. I think sometimes folks lose perspective of how good it is here when a small issue doesn't go their way.

Here is a link showing some of the opportunities available to seniors.

http://www.onelakewood.com/HumanService ... fault.aspx

NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE SENIORS IN LAKEWOOD

Let me get this straight, the working folks in Lakewood contribute 1.3 million to seniors and you are making this statement because the location you specifically want benches would potentially put people in harms way? Unfortunately you can't always get everything that you want...

[Ryan Salo]

Benches as well as other public space features have been considered as part of the Main Street program's streetscape. I am not opposed to them but as with most everything consideration needs to be given to priorities and how practical the solution is.

It is always great to hear both sides to makes things clearer. I am glad you participate on this forum. I wish others from city hall would do the same.

Thank you for the time you invest in this city.

[sharon kinsella]

That's not it Ryan and you know it. For your information, many of these seniors paid for your education, safety, the roads and sewage system you and others used growing up. We paid for years and many seniors still do. Don't think that everyone old is poor, because that would be making an assumption. And there are many places where it would be safe. Use a better argument and show a little respect for your elders.

[sharon kinsella]

Oh and nice jump to your friend Ryan. That was just er . . .um. . .ICKY!!

[Stephen Eisel]

One of The greatest generations of this country fought in WWII and grew up during the Great Depression. That is the generation that we owe the most gratitude towards. They sacrificed and gave of themselves with out any strings. That is something that we all need to learn and do.. just my $.02 cents

[marklingm]

One of The greatest generations of this country fought in WWII and grew up during the Great Depression. That is the generation that we owe the most gratitude towards. They sacrificed and gave of themselves with out any strings. That is something that we all need to learn and do.. just my $.02 cents

Well said, Stephen!

As an aside, I think $0.02 in 1945 had approximately the same buying power as $0.25 does in 2011.

Matt

[Shawn Juris]

hi !! i'm tina cenname - the young disabled senior who lives at the westerly WHO went to dennis kucinichs office to ask about the aid of benches down detroit ave. . the nice man i spoke to there phoned mr. bullock who , i believe said "great idea" & yes , he thought there were funds available within the city to do this. i received a call from mr. juris along with an e-mail that said " it would be a maintainence nightmare". & "there's no room on the sidewalks". so oh well , i guess i once again feel that this won't be a problem til these people become disabled seniors themselves. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE SENIORS IN LAKEWOOD. remember about...BAD KARMA-gentlemen... tina cenname

Just to clarify, the email was a reply from Public Works about a question of why Lakewood doesn't have benches out like during the Arts Festival, which explained why the Arts Festival was a unique situation since the street is closed. This email was the source of the two obstacles that I reiterated in both phone discussions; space restrictions and cost. The suggestion to overcome these obstacles was to partner with the businesses once appropriate locations are identified. Again, seemed like a fair assessment afterall, the sidewalks are tight throughout much of Lakewood and I can appreciate the cost associated beyond just buying the bench.

One question that I still am not clear on is how many benches would be acceptable or what distance between them would be needed?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Again, seemed like a fair assessment afterall, the sidewalks are tight throughout much of Lakewood and I can appreciate the cost associated beyond just buying the bench.

Shawn

Simple question, and maybe you can find out. If Detroit Ave. is so tight, why does the city
insist on new buildings be built right on the sidewalk, like the new CVS?

Would it make sense to start building all of the building back 10' - 20' so that we can make
room for cafes, benches, bikes, and walking?

Just curious.


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[Roy Pitchford]

Again, seemed like a fair assessment afterall, the sidewalks are tight throughout much of Lakewood and I can appreciate the cost associated beyond just buying the bench.

Shawn

Simple question, and maybe you can find out. If Detroit Ave. is so tight, why does the city
insist on new buildings be built right on the sidewalk, like the new CVS?

Would it make sense to start building all of the building back 10' - 20' so that we can make
room for cafes, benches, bikes, and walking?

Just curious.


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On this, Jim, we are in complete agreement. The new Harding Middle School and the YMCA are both far too tight to the sideway. I actually think it would be nice to have some more green space in front of all these buildings. Grass, maybe some bushes and trees?
On those rare occasions that I drive down...Blossom Park (?) it feels more claustrophobic because the houses are so close to the street.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Again, seemed like a fair assessment afterall, the sidewalks are tight throughout much of Lakewood and I can appreciate the cost associated beyond just buying the bench.

Shawn

Simple question, and maybe you can find out. If Detroit Ave. is so tight, why does the city
insist on new buildings be built right on the sidewalk, like the new CVS?

Would it make sense to start building all of the building back 10' - 20' so that we can make
room for cafes, benches, bikes, and walking?

Just curious.


.

On this, Jim, we are in complete agreement. The new Harding Middle School and the YMCA are both far too tight to the sideway. I actually think it would be nice to have some more green space in front of all these buildings. Grass, maybe some bushes and trees?
On those rare occasions that I drive down...Blossom Park (?) it feels more claustrophobic because the houses are so close to the street.

Roy

Actually we probably agree more than either of us would like to think.

After the debacle of Warren and Madison, I cannot believe that it is safer than with buildings set back.

Is the city still dreaming of turning DowntowN Lakewood into a mall with a ring road? Is that
why they are putting the backs of so many buildings on Detroit Ave.?

As we have said since day one of the Deck. What is the plan? Are we trying to be walkable
or driveable? Livable, or a destination? It would be nice to know.

If we are walker, biker, dog friendly city then every business should have a bench and
bike rack, with green space to tie up the pooches. I mean if we are really trying to be
that. It makes no sense having the spooky pooch parade, and parks and walks that are
not dog friendly. All of these conflicts in marketing and branding.

It would be nice to know what the city has planned, and how they plan to do it. Or do we
just talk biking and walking when it is cool, and then forget it when Big Box and malls are cool?

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FWIW


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