Should We See What's In The Contract Before Passing A Levy?

[Roy Pitchford]

If I may, I'm not as knowledgeable about this local stuff, but I have one glaring issue with this discussion...the fact that it has to happen.

I see you arguing back and forth over union contract stuff. Isn't there a better question to ask, like:
Are the students getting a good education, adequately preparing them for their future lives in the real world?
If they are, maybe the teachers deserve a raise.
If not, maybe its time to change some things. I don't know precisely what, though.

Lots of money does not necessarily equal good education and vice versa.

[Stan Austin]

Roy--- good points----- It does seem like the discussion has veered off to a sidetrack and has missed the essential questions.
Stan

[Danielle Masters]

I agree Roy, good questions. And my answer about my family as they are the only students I can answer for is yes they are getting a good education and I believe they are being prepared for the future. As for the teachers, I've only been disappointed with one teacher out of approximately 30 teachers and my only issue with that teacher was their unwillingness to follow my child's IEP. So all in all the teachers have been great and I think they've taught my children well and expected them to do well in school.

[Roy Pitchford]

If I may, I am curious for some clarification, Danielle. I won't doubt that you feel they are getting a good education, but is it one that, as I said, prepares them for the real world?
(Maybe your kids are too young for that, I don't believe I've read anywhere what grades your kids are in.)

Granted my experience with LCS ended, as a student, in 1998, but I feel I learned more outside of the classroom than inside of it (that was often my experience in college as well, but that's most likely irrelevant).

We covered writing a check in 5th grade, and I don't recall ever doing it after that point.
Cooking/sewing were covered in 3 9-week quarters during 6th-8th grade.
I'm not sure if I was ever asked to write a cover letter or resume at any point.

I'm not saying I didn't get a "good education". I learned algebra, trigonometry, statistics, calculus, german verb conjugation, geometric proofs, how the greek phalanx worked, what a mole of was (in terms of chemistry), where the steel ball will land given is rolling speed and elevation, how to identify oil-bearing rock strata...
but how much of that is actually applicable to everyday life? These are good for whetting (or is it wetting?) the young minds appetite for future knowledge, helping them choose a career path.

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

No it has been the case many times where the residents have to say enough is enough,
and put together some very serious oversight groups to handle this.

Jim,

I don't have a problem with oversight groups or committees. However, I have been pretty involved over the last couple of years, which is not long, but I have still been able to figure out that it seems like the BOE asks the same people over and over to be on their committees. They have their supporters and they know they can count on the same people to be loyal, push their agenda, and make sure the outcome is what they want.

Kristine

[Danielle Masters]

Roy, my children are younger. They are in 8th, 6th, 5th, 3rd and 2nd grade. My 2nd and 6th grader are learning important social skills in school which will help them in the real world as they both are on the autism spectrum. As for my other children they are learning pretty much what I learned in my school experience in California. My oldest is further in his education than the others. He will be heading off to the high school in the fall. This year he is studying spanish, social studies, language arts, geometry, music (cello), physical education, health, consumer science (sewing cooking), art and computers. I think what he is learning is pretty much what I learned. His goal after high school is to go MIT. I think what he is learning in the classrooms and in his extra curricular activities is what he needs for his after high school goals. I graduated almost 18 years ago and I don't see much of a change in the educational system.

My 6th grader may or may not head off to college. He's a bit too young to make that judgement call especially with his disabilities. I know that he is excited that the high school offers a culinary program. He loves cooking and he wants to be in that program. I had the chance to eat lunch at the high school last week and the food was great and I was impressed with the students, they were certainly learning skills to help them in the real world.

I am not sure what you expect the schools to be teaching. They have various vocational programs, AP classes, regular classes and distance learning opportunities. Lakewood seems to be offering a variety of opportunities for students of all levels, that to me says they are preparing students for the real world.

[Kristine Pagsuyoin]

It's more an issue of apathy and lack knowledge on the part of the general electorate.

Bryan,

Most people don't get involved with the School Board unless something happens that directly impacts their child. Many of us got involved when we needed another teacher hired at Grant (due to large class sizes), and some got involved a year or so ago when the BOE wanted to change the Heath Ed. program without engaging parents. People are busy and families are stressed. They don't have time to "watch" the BOE (too bad we have to) and have wanted to blindly trust our Board.

And, our BOE has counted on that very fact to do whatever they want. Now, most of them feel entitled and don't think they even have to provide reasons for their decisions. Yes, they need to go and I believe there will not be another election without an opposition candidate.

However, I do think that people are waking up. Many more are paying attention and asking questions. It has been slow--it has taken a few years to catch on, but the demand for accountability is building. Especially, after the BOE's decision to not provide reasons to close a school. People are waking up because they care about Lakewood, not just the schools, but the bigger picture. We are not going to let 3 or four people decide what is best for Lakewood.

I don't think people understand the levy. They just know that they have to shell out more money--money most don't have. There have been opportunities for citizens to attend Dr. Madak's presentation about why we need the levy and the chance to ask questions. I know. I went and asked.

A grassroots movement of OHIO citizens is needed to demand (after too many years) that the way our schools are funded be changed. We wouldn't have so much conflict within local districts if we didn't have to constantly pass levies.

[Will Brown]

I'm curious how a new way of funding our schools would cost us less. It there a money tree out there I don't know about? Do you really think the people in Parma would happily shell out more money to support the schools in Lakewood? Would be be overjoyed when millions of our dollars were awarded to two states by faceless bureaucrats? Why all the complaints from districts that lost out in the race for excellence lottery?

I would agree that some limits on property taxes being used for local schools would help. As it is now, a town that has a lot of industry, but fewer residents, gets far more from property tax on that industry than is equitable, when a town with little or no industry, such as Lakewood, does not enjoy that bonanza. I recall years ago when the Perry nuclear plant was built (in Perry, of course, a very small town) and the schools of Perry were swamped with money and couldn't find a way to spend it all. But I think that inequity could be easily changed.

My concern is that you seem to want to give total control of funding of the schools to someone other than the citizens, and I think that is wrong. Controlling the amount of money the board has to play with is the only effective way to make them get serious, and if that means the citizens have to take a greater part in setting tax rates, so be it.

Incidentally, I got my ballot today and was reading about the proposed levy. I hadn't realized that it is, apparently, permanent ("for a continuing period of time" not specified on the ballot). Strange how that information didn't get into the endless stream of flyers sent me supposedly explaining the levy. Perhaps it was omitted with the parts that would have told me just what they are going to do with the endless stream of money.

When I was young, government employment almost always paid less that a similar job in the private sector; in return, the public employees had a much higher level of job security than workers in the private sector. You were pretty certain that your job would not be moved to Alabama or Mexico, nor would your company go out of business. Over the years, we allowed the public sector wages to increase, to the point where the whole compensation package of a public sector employee often exceeds that of an equivalent private sector employee, yet the job security of the public sector employee remains much higher, and now, when private sector employees are facing decreased incomes, public sector employees remain insulated from any decrease and want more money from those who have less. Rejecting this levy would force the board to deal with those realities, or at least to take a few small steps toward dealing with them.

[Bill Call]

Why not?

What are they afraid of?

[Stan Austin]

Well Bill---- You're using the same old tactics that the Tea Baggers, Republicans and children use!!!!!! Just recycle the argument and start it over again!!!!
In your case, a two week cycle which is a little quicker than the 50/100/150 year cycle that is currently in vogue amongst those above mentioned groups.
Stan

[Bill Call]

Well Bill---- You're using the same old tactics that the Tea Baggers, Republicans and children use!!!!!! Just recycle the argument and start it over again!!!!

I'm just asking questions.