Should We See What's In The Contract Before Passing A Levy?

[Bill Call]

Why not?

[Bryan Schwegler]

Honestly, I don't think that's such a half-bad idea. Unfortunately I would bet 98% of people wouldn't bother to read it if it was available.

[Gary Rice]

That would be impossible to do, because there is no new contract to look at yet, and contracts cannot, and will not be finalized, before the next round of negotiations conclude.

Actually, there are different contracts with the different bargaining units. Contract discussions and negotiations come due at different times. When those discussions come up, depends on the length of time that the previous contracts run.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Honestly, I don't think that's such a half-bad idea. Unfortunately I would bet 98% of people wouldn't bother to read it if it was available.

And 50% of those that did read it would still not understand it.

Seriously, I think we are really confusing many issues here. To me it seems pretty easy
to figure out. And seeing as so few "knowledgeable people" are willing to weigh in in any
form, preferring to hope we just do not think about it. aka "The Lakewood Way." Let me
try to explain from my point of view.

Levy - Vote yes. Lakewood has made a fair investment in our schools, and we are known
for that, and it can attract families here, and educated young neighbors are not a bad side
effect either.

Contract/Spending - School Board, administration. How does giving this crew less going to
make anything better? As I speak to people in the city, it would seem 99% of their issues
as with the Board of Education not the kids, not the teachers, not the programs. Not even
the success rate.

Pass the LEVY, then start to demand accountability and transparency. Trying to manage
the schools every six years by voting no to a levy borders on insanity, in my humble
opinion. We have a school board member demanding transparency, accountability, unedited
TV meetings, fair rules for all, not just some, and he is ridiculed in some circles by so called
civic leaders and by other board members! Told to get with the program! This is nuts!

I was given some amazing numbers about where we could be at financially right now with
smarter stewards. Well that is how it was presented to me. After looking at the numbers
the dates, the names, the reasons, I simply asked, "How does this information help the
schools now balance their books?" the answer, "Well it doesn't but..."

Lakewoodites have got to learn it is 2010, transparency and accountability is our right. As
I look back over the decades of "issues" they all revolve around lack of accountability and
transparency.

As I said 6 years ago. Vote yes, and then hold them accountable.

We must stay dedicated to education.

.

[Stan Austin]

Bill---- your request to see the contract is disingenuous at best. As Gary points out, there is no contract. So, your new twist is exactly the same tactic that the "Birthers" have used.
And, curiously, your whole campaign has been a vendetta against teachers - not janitors, administrators, cafeteria workers.
Was your school experience really that rotten that in your declining years you want one last chance to get back at those "s.o.b." teachers who gave you such a rough time?
Stan

[Bill Call]

Pass the LEVY, then start to demand accountability and transparency. ....As I said 6 years ago. Vote yes, and then hold them accountable.......

How did that work out?

Why not accountability first?

...... We have a school board member demanding transparency, accountability, unedited
TV meetings, fair rules for all, not just some, and he is ridiculed in some circles by so called civic leaders and by other board members! Told to get with the program! This is nuts!

....and the majority of the board is quite comfortable in playing that duplicitus game with the certainty that no one will hold them accountable.

Your efforts to get some transparancy and accountablity from Lakewood Alive is going nowhere because they know that their revenue stream will continue.

That attitude also exists with the majority of the Lakewood School Board. It's not going to change as long as the voters continue to give the Board a blank check.

The current contract expires on July 31. Why doesn't the Board share the contract demands of the teachers unions? What is happeninig during the negotiations? Don't the voters have the right to know what they are buying?

It has been the school boards policy in the past to give school board employees the 4% step raise and the 3 or 4 or 5% COLA. Is that what has been secretly agreed to?

What will the attitude of the unions be when they see that huge pile of new money?


This video will only take a couple of minutes to view. It is worth seeing:


http://reason.tv/video/show/3-reasons-w ... -sector-em

[Gary Rice]

Bill,

There CAN BE no advance or prior contract demands, no secrets going on, and NO prior agreements put out there, prior to the opening of labor negotiations.

There are labor relations rules involved here....SERIOUS rules.

In labor negotiations, you have to go strictly by the book.

Have you heard of the term "unfair labor practice"?

In districts where that charge has come up, either towards a bargaining unit, or towards a district, the expenses and human costs involved in the resolution of those issues can be virtually catastrophic for a school system.

By the book you must go.

Period.

Back to the banjo...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Pass the LEVY, then start to demand accountability and transparency. ....As I said 6 years ago. Vote yes, and then hold them accountable.......

How did that work out?

Why not accountability first?

Bill

It worked out terribly, but I am not going to hold them accountable for the residents not
holding them accountable. Let's be honest much of this board is stuck in the past, you
know, obviously before computers.

No it has been the case many times where the residents have to say enough is enough,
and put together some very serious oversight groups to handle this. I know that is said
but look at the Kalisch days, and what came out of the SERIOUS oversight. Much of this
board was here then. So why would you expect anything differently.

As for the rest of the post, LakewoodAlive has very little to do with this discussion unless
you want to talk about the very unhealthy relationship they have praying on our schools
for free goods and services that we end up paying for. Oh and some working overtime to
close the only "excellent" school we have in the very area they think they are selling homes.
But lets be honest Bill we never figured them as deep thinkers now did we.

No we must pass the levy, shore up the problems, start serious oversight of everything it
would now seem. Make officials actually talk to people, obey sunshine laws, and get rid
of the massive conflicts of interest that permeate this town like some hillbilly hollar where
nearly everyone has the same grandparents. Simply put we deserve better then being
forced to follow the same people that drove Lakewood to where it is today.

Pass the levy, and we the residents, check everything from this day forward.

FWIW

.

[Will Brown]

It is disingenuous to say that there is no contract.

The prior contract, which for some reason they don't want to show us, remains in effect.

It is beyond belief that a union and a public body can conspire to keep such an agreement secret, but that apparently is a common practice in the field.

The media somehow can discover some provisions of a contract, but somehow cannot discover all the provisions, so we end up bailing out the autoworkers, for example, without really knowing how well off they are. And we vote on levies with only anecdotal evidence of what the cost of a teacher is, and vague ominous threats of what they will do to our children if we don't pass their levy.

In times of economic weakness, it is patently unfair to levy increased taxes on a strained populace, while protecting public employees from the forces that are crushing the rest of us.

There is no reason that the defeat of this levy should harm the educational process or the students. Reasonable people with concern for the children would be able to come to an agreement that would keep the schools functioning at their current level, or better. But if the board, the union, and the teachers are more concerned with their power and their purses than with the children, we would see an intentional sabotage of the school system, and using the students as hostages to empower parties who see the children only as a mealticket.

[Gary Rice]

We all contribute what we can to this discussion, hopefully based on well considered opinions, and our own prior experiences.

Unfortunately, there still seems to be a great many mis-perceptions out there.

I've done just about all I can do, to help educate and inform people as to the process that is taken with school negotiations, the time-lines involved, and the pitfalls that are out there with that process.

Obviously, people are going to believe, and say, whatever they want to, anyway.

As a retired teacher from another district, (but, a longtime Lakewood resident) I want to emphasize that I personally do not stand to gain anything at all from this discussion. (except that, which all of us share, in having a better community) All that I can offer is the benefit of my own experiences with going through similar difficult situations in that district where I once taught. I know what happened there, and I have grave concerns for Lakewood, if the voters start regularly turning down school levies.

As far as communicating with the voters goes, public employees are generally limited in what they can express in a public forum. In addition, a member of a public decision-making body also has to exercise some discretion as well, so as not to appear biased or pre-judging regarding decisions that may come before them later.

That's why I, as a retired teacher, have tried to step in, and try to clarify what I was able to here; in order to help the school district to pass their levy.

But you know, at the same time, even a perception, right or wrong, of complacency- carries a price. Is there a disconnect between some in Lakewood's leadership, and the electorate? I certainly cannot say, or even speculate, but- as we've seen here on this 'Deck, some concerns certainly do seem to exist.

That does not, however, mean that Lakewood's young people must pay a price, for what others are perceived to have, or have not, done.

Of course, if people want to know more about public decision-makers, all they really need to do is attend the public meetings. Yes, there are necessary executive sessions, but the decision-making is public. As a former CDBG committee member, for example, I was so often amazed at how few of the public came to our meetings.

However one feels about supporting the school board, we must understand that, without levy passage, there certainly would be cuts, and more cuts. There may well be pay-to-play sports and music. (if those programs can even survive the cuts) Showcase extracurricular, and other programs, will certainly be scrutinized for cost-effectiveness, and on and on and on. Staff cutbacks, larger class sizes...all of these scenarios are possible in the near future...At the end of that dark hole even lies the possibility of state receivership some day, and an even greater loss of local control of your schools.

In my honest opinion, Lakewood will, most probably, be seen as a less attractive, and less desirable place to live; if this levy attempt does not succeed. If you think it's tough to sell a home now around here, just turn down a few levies....and watch what happens next...

Back to the banjo...

[Bill Call]

However one feels about supporting the school board, we must understand that, without levy passage, there certainly would be cuts, and more cuts. There may well be pay-to-play sports and music. (if those programs can even survive the cuts) Showcase extracurricular, and other programs, will certainly be scrutinized for cost-effectiveness,

Who would have thought that a simple request like "How are you going to spend the money?" would lead to such consternation.

What are they hiding?

[Gary Rice]

Consternation? Who, me?

Not at all. Just putting the scenarios out there where they belong.

In my honest opinion, nothing whatsoever, has been "hiding".

That's the whole point.

The process is ALREADY transparent.

People might not have been paying any attention, but...

...it's all right out there.

There is, in fact, a very structured process that schools, unions, businesses, and individuals need to follow when dealing with public sector interests. Once in awhile, someone, or some group might try an end run around the process, but the process will eventually prevail.

Teachers do not "run" the schools, and neither does the classified staff, nor does the administration, or even the Superintendent, for that matter. YOU run the schools through your elected representatives on the school board. If some board members have been around for awhile, most people must like what they are doing, or they would have been voted out long ago.

Go to the meetings, get involved. Don't like what you see? Then try to get elected to a board member seat yourself...

...but whatever we all do, let's please TRY not to put our personal or polemical political philosophies (whether they're left, right, up, or down) ahead of our students' best interests...

especially...

...when you consider your own property values.

The students' best interests are therefore yours, as well.

Back to the banjo...

[Bill Call]

Go to the meetings, get involved. Don't like what you see? Then try to get elected to a board member seat yourself...

A lot of people did exactly that during the discussions about Grant and Lincoln. They found out that those meetings were merely dog and pony show. The decision to close Grant was made before the first meeting was held. The majority of the board played those people for suckers.

Now were are asked to give that board cart blanche with tens of millions of new tax dollars.

The board majority has been honest in one respect. The levy will only provide enough money to fund three years of raises. In three years another, bigger levy will be needed to fund another round of raises.

Sometime during the next 10 years another much larger levy will be need to fund the teachers retirement fund because that fund is seriously underfunded.

It is time to put a stop to this madness. If not now, when?

[Gary Rice]

Bill:

To me, your last question perhaps might have been better phrased as "where?", than "when?". (although I would of course, take issue with your premise)

Some of the primary issues that you seem to be concerned with...for example, retirement system funding and the general overall system of public employee wages and benefits....these are more state level issues, are they not?

Unfortunately, if the citizens choose to play local hardball with the schools here in Lakewood by defeating the levy, I do believe that the only options left will be difficult ones for the students.

Still... we can at least vote for or against, or provide input to, our elected representatives. We can certainly TRY to make our voices heard, whether at a school board meeting, or at the ballot box.

After all, a school levy simply delivers money to the district. It's up to the school board as to HOW that money will be spent. Bargaining units cannot see a dime of that money, unless it comes to them through a future negotiations process.

Back to the banjo....

[Bryan Schwegler]

If some board members have been around for awhile, most people must like what they are doing, or they would have been voted out long ago.

I doubt that's it. Out of the last 10 school board elections, how many board members have actually had an opponent in the race?

It's more an issue of apathy and lack knowledge on the part of the general electorate. For better or worse, citizens know they can control money through levies and that's the easiest form of accoutability they can understand.

Most people know very little about board members and even less so about any opposition cadidates (if there is even an opposition candidate). If the people aren't happy, they vote no on the levy, that's easier than doing research on people or actually following up to make sure the board members are actually doing what they promised.

I'm not saying that's the right approach, just throwing in a dose of reality here. People vote with their pocketbook.

Now my personal disclaimer: I'm pretty unhappy personally with most of the school board, but I did vote for the levy already (I voted by mail). I will be voting against most of the incumbents if anyone actually has some opposition.