Legacy Red Herring

[Stephen Eisel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0y ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBCclD33 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENAV_UoI ... re=related

[ryan costa]

the wall street bailout of 700 billion plus dollars sure went down easy.

wall street wasn't burdened by a large unionized workforce. they managed to put themselves 700 billion(or so they say) in the hole without the UAW. they outsmarted themselves into marking up junk bonds and fancy derivatives, then passing them back and forth to each other. better cut their taxes.

AIG has taken in 90.3 billion bucks from the treasury within the last few months. supposedly it is some kind of insurance company. have their customers been filing 90.3 billion more dollars of claims than AIG expected?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Stephen Eisel

Still waiting for where Iraq attacked us, or was even a threat.

Let's start with that little lie, that led to bankrupting America and breaking the world.


.

[Stephen Eisel]

Stephen Eisel

Still waiting for where Iraq attacked us, or was even a threat.

Let's start with that little lie, that led to bankrupting America and breaking the world.


.

Thank God we did not wait for the Germans to invade the US before getting involved in WWII. Iraq was a threat to the world. The 17 United Nations Security Council Resolutions prove that point.

[ryan costa]

Stephen Eisel

Still waiting for where Iraq attacked us, or was even a threat.

Let's start with that little lie, that led to bankrupting America and breaking the world.


.

Thank God we did not wait for the Germans to invade the US before getting involved in WWII. Iraq was a threat to the world. The 17 United Nations Security Council Resolutions prove that point.

Germany was an industrial superpower that had conquered most of western Europe. The big debate in the U.S. was whether to attack Germany first or the Soviet Union.

Iraq was nothing like nazi germany in threat. George W. attacked a crippled wester weight and spent more money than was spent on the entire New Deal doing it.

[Stephen Eisel]

Stephen Eisel

Still waiting for where Iraq attacked us, or was even a threat.

Let's start with that little lie, that led to bankrupting America and breaking the world.


.

Thank God we did not wait for the Germans to invade the US before getting involved in WWII. Iraq was a threat to the world. The 17 United Nations Security Council Resolutions prove that point.

Germany was an industrial superpower that had conquered most of western Europe. The big debate in the U.S. was whether to attack Germany first or the Soviet Union.

Iraq was nothing like nazi germany in threat. George W. attacked a crippled wester weight and spent more money than was spent on the entire New Deal doing it.

lol... it does not change the fact that we went to war with a country that did not attack us... nice try...

[Stephen Eisel]

Germany was an industrial superpower that had conquered most of western Europe.

Conquered???? Italy and France????

[Stephen Eisel]

Germany was an industrial superpower that had conquered most of western Europe.

as opposed to Billions in new oil revenue


one word for you "Columbia"

[Jim O'Bryan]

Thank God we did not wait for the Germans to invade the US before getting involved in WWII. Iraq was a threat to the world. The 17 United Nations Security Council Resolutions prove that point.

How many Americans were injured in the entire first Gulf War with Iraq?

How were they injured?

How many Americans killed in the first three days of the this war?

How were they killed?

Think about it.

The only weapons of mass destruction they ever had were the ones we sold to them, and gave them targeting information for.

OK Stephen, so now the UN Resolution is something you support because of your never ending support of the UN. I am sure you think the UN can force America to turn it's back on 200 years of history and standing.

Hitler? I do not remember America putting Hitler in power, or selling him weapons of mass destruction. How does that even apply to this. Did Hitler like Viagra, cowboy boots and Fran Sinatra like Sadaam? What is the comparison? Did we have Ambassadors daughters lie about incubators and heart and lung machines Hitler ruined?

.

[Will Brown]

I agree that the bailouts, to date, have been done foolishly and without adequate oversight, but I think you will never get adequate oversight from a congress that is more concerned with appearance than substance (the auto executives were wastrels when they saved some executive time by flying to Washington, but are now seeing the light because they wasted a few days and drove to Washington, just as an example).

I notice the guy with the spittle on his keyboard attributes everything bad to the Republicans, including the bailouts; he probably didn't notice that the congress that authorized the bailouts is controlled by the Democrats.

I think the ranting about states giving tax breaks to the "foreign" automakers ignores reality. It is common for states and cities to grant tax breaks to companies that move a plant into their community; so common that we have cities withing the Cleveland area poaching businesses from other cities in the same area with tax breaks.

As far as foreign automakers, the plants in the US may be owned by foreign automakers (as is a great deal of real estate in our cities), but they provide jobs for Americans, and pay our taxes, so I would say they are a positive for our economy, rather than a negative.

As far as what autoworkers earn, I think it is fair to say that most workers do not have any idea of how much it costs to employ them. We just don't seem to understand that our paid vacations cost something (since the employer has to bring in someone else to do the work while we vacation) and few of us realize that the employer has to pay something toward our company pensions, our hospitalization, our sick days, and the list goes on and on. I think we would be shocked if an employer told his employees that he was doing away with the fringes, and they would only receive the pay rate they see in their check, but would have to work 52 weeks a year, pay their total hospitalization premiums, and be docked when they call in sick. He could even make them independent contractors (such as taxi drivers) and let them pay their whole FICA tax.

I think the bail outs should never have been started, but that is water over the dam, and the best course now would be to make clear that there will be no more bailouts. Any company in dire straits can seek protection in bankruptcy, and continue their business while a recovery plan is worked out under court supervision (where there is plenty of experience in solving such problems, as opposed to under political supervision, where there is no experience in solving such problems).

The attempt to compare costs for workers in this country with workers in other countries is a red herring; the more apt comparison is between autoworkers on the books of the big three (I won't say working, because apparently one provision of their contract is that they are paid even if they are not working) and the workers employed at the foreign owned plants in this country, or even with all factory workers in this country. It then becomes clear that the workers at the big 3, although hardly skilled labor, receive much more than their peers, and the idea that those of us who earn far less should pony up some bailout money to subsidize the big 3 and most of its employees, is unfair. Let them face the same problems the rest of us are facing, by facing the reality of a bankruptcy proceeding, or by sitting down with management and making their companies productive.

When I was in school it was common to find students who didn't bother studying, because they knew that as soon as they were old enough, they could get a job in the mills, and make more than a teacher. I don't know what they are doing now, because we were willing to let the steel industry self-implode, and the mills are now largely gone. So if a major industry like steel was not necessary for the well being of our country, why is the auto industry so vital, especially when there are so many cars being made (and wages earned) by companies other than the big 3?

[Stephen Eisel]

The only weapons of mass destruction they ever had were the ones we sold to them, and gave them targeting information for.

lol.. We did not sell them the mustard gas that killed over 100,000 kurds.. Are you capable of ever telling the truth?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnjcofMF ... re=related

[Stephen Eisel]

Hitler? I do not remember America putting Hitler in power, or selling him weapons of mass destruction

. Joe Kennedy and Ford did nothing to help Hitler

[Stephen Eisel]

I agree that the bailouts, to date, have been done foolishly and without adequate oversight, but I think you will never get adequate oversight from a congress that is more concerned with appearance than substance (the auto executives were wastrels when they saved some executive time by flying to Washington, but are now seeing the light because they wasted a few days and drove to Washington, just as an example).

Agreed..

[Jim O'Bryan]

Hitler? I do not remember America putting Hitler in power, or selling him weapons of mass destruction

. Joe Kennedy and Ford did nothing to help Hitler

That was John F. thank was president, not Joe.

Stephen, you are missing the point.

Will

Thanks for noticing, wiped down the key board.

So the entire problem falls on the last two years of congress where nothing still got done?

As for the bailout, I thought it was either R genius, or foolishness. No matter, it was a win, win for them, and a total loss to the Dems, or more importantly us taxpayers.

Look back, the Rs made the first rumblings, now I am sure they realized that Nancy Pelosi and other "they cannot out do us" Dems would step up and fight for the right to give it away better, faster and more. With no understanding of anything.

It will be interesting to see who ends up owning the big three and how.

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[Stephen Eisel]

That was John F. thank was president, not Joe.

it was Joe Kennedy that helped Hitler not JFK