Legacy Red Herring

[Jim O'Bryan]

I am watching Mitt Romeny spin the end of unions and benefits. I think the right should just come out an attack their hate with facts not smoke and mirrors.

$2,000 a car in legacy costs per vehicle. Health, pension, etc.

Well most of the other nations such as Germany, Japan, Sweden, wtc have national health care, and guaranteed pensions.

Would Mitt prefer National Health Care? Nope fought it as well.

Time to get real, and knock this down and move on.

.

[Stephen Eisel]

So, you do not think that the legacy cost impact Ford,GM and Chrysler?

[Stephen Eisel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFuGTT74rU0

[David Lay]

The Nay vote on the auto bailout was an attempt at union busting, plain and simple.

[Stephen Eisel]

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/


I agree that Ford,GM and Chrysler need to be saved. But, Mitt is 100% correct. Business as usual and a check from the Government will not save the Big 3. Changes are needed. They need to cut cost in order to become competitive.

[David Lay]

Maybe, but Mitt is dead wrong on how much auto workers make per hour...it's been debunked several times. And he wonders why he lost the primary...

[Stephen Eisel]

Maybe, but Mitt is dead wrong on how much auto workers make per hour...it's been debunked several times. And he wonders why he lost the primary...

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/ ?????

[Jim O'Bryan]

So, you do not think that the legacy cost impact Ford,GM and Chrysler?

Stephen

If we want to make it a "fair" playing field.

Then the Rs should buck up and approve national health care, and strengthen Social Security.

Otherwise it is just more BS in their contual war on the working men and women of America.

History would show that the Rs spend everything to an extreme so that social programs have to be gutted. Because they cannot get rid of them any other way. The Dems come in balance the budget, rebuild the military and start social programs again only to have the Rs come in and blow it.

The "legacy" is BS and a red herring.

Or, just another lie, from the group that gave us 8 years of lies.

.

[David Lay]

Ask any autoworker how much they make, and it's far from $75 an hour.

The $75/hour auto worker and other creatures of myth

7 Myths About Detroit Automakers

[Stephen Eisel]

Ask any autoworker how much they make, and it's far from $75 an hour.

The $75/hour auto worker and other creatures of myth

7 Myths About Detroit Automakers

These article support Mitt's assertion

[David Lay]

And how much does Mitt make? I would say the average auto worker works MUCH harder than Mitt ever has. Has he ever gotten his hands greasy?

[Stephen Eisel]

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/viewreso ... 5#source11

Average Hourly Wage and Benefits:
All: "Labor Talks Between UAW, GM Resume," USA Today, Sep. 17, 2007


GM: "Other Benefits," Media Handbook, available at www.media.gm.com/manufacturing/handbook (accessed Nov. 30, 3008); GM explained the calculation for its total compensation and benefits in its Media Handbook:

"The total of both cash compensation and benefits provided to GM hourly workers in 2006 amounted to approximately $73.26 per active hour worked. This total is made of two main components: cash compensation ($39.68) and benefit/government required programs ($33.58).

The average annual cash compensation for hourly employees in 2006 was $39.68 per hour. Included in average earnings are straight-time pay, Cost of Living Allowance (COLA), night-shift premiums, overtime premiums, holiday and vacation pay. In 2003, GM workers logged 41,363 (hours in 000’s) in overtime hours for an average of 371 hours per worker; in 2004, 39,409 overtime hours for an average of 374 hours per worker; in 2005, 33,555 overtime hours for an average of 337 hours per worker; and in 2006, 27,265 overtime hours for an average of 315 hours per worker.

Benefit/government required programs in 2006 added an additional $33.58 for each active hour worked. These costs include: group life insurance, disability benefits, and Supplemental Unemployment Benefits (SUB), Job Security (JOBS), pensions, unemployment compensation, Social Security taxes, and hospital, surgical, prescription drug, dental, and vision care benefits."


Ford: "Hourly Labor Cost," 2007 UAW-Ford National Negotiations Media Fact Book, available at http://media.ford.com/pdf/07_UAW_Negotiations.pdf (accessed Dec. 10, 2008); Ford explained the factors in its calculation of the cost of labor:

"Labor costs can be defined and measured in a number of ways. One of the most meaningful measures is the total average hourly cost to the company per hour worked. This includes: (1) all the dollars paid to employees, (2) the cost of contractual benefits for employees, and (3) the cost of statutory payments, such as Social Security and Workers' Compensation – all calculated on the basis of hours worked by employees...

[D]uring the 1997-2006 period, Ford's total average hourly cost per hour worked increased 62%, from $43.55 to $70.51."


The UAW offered a different estimate of wages in a Dec 2, 2008 document on its website titled "The Truth About UAW Members and the U.S. Auto Industry":

"Wages for UAW members at Chrysler, Ford and GM range from about $14 an hour for newly hired workers to $28 an hour for assemblers to $33 for skilled trades workers.Typical hourly wages at Honda, Nissan and Toyota are only slightly lower...

The $73 an hour figure is outdated and inaccurate. It includes not only the costs of health care, pensions, and other compensation for current workers, but also the costs of the pensions and health care benefits of retired employees spread out over the active workers. Active workers never receive any of this compensation in any form, so it is not accurate to describe it as part of their 'earnings.'"


"$73 an Hour: Adding It Up," New York Times, Dec. 9, 2008:

"The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.

The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word 'compensation.' It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)

The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.

Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit's unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota's (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.

The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix -- dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so -- and end up at roughly $70 an hour."

[David Lay]

Kinda funny that the same Senators that voted no on the bailout are the same ones that are in bed with foreign automakers.

Unbelievable.

[David Lay]

Corker, you’ve got Nissan there and Volkswagen coming. Shelby, you’ve got Hyundai, Honda, Mercedes-Benz and — like McConnell — Toyota. Oh, don’t kid yourself. They didn’t come because you earned their business, a subject on which you enjoy lecturing the Detroit Three. No, they came because you threw billions in state tax breaks to lure them.

[Stephen Eisel]

And how much does Mitt make? I would say the average auto worker works MUCH harder than Mitt ever has. Has he ever gotten his hands greasy?

what does this have to do with the bailout? hating people because of their skin color, religion or economic standing is ignorant..