Bush Administration lied to America 935 times to invade Iraq

[Stephen Eisel]

http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22357.pdf

[Stephen Eisel]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=hj107-114

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=s2002-237


http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2002-455

[ryan costa]

That is an interesting resolution.

If you put most of the other countries in the Middle East under a microscope the same charges could be made. In Saudi Arabia because of the laws against women. In Israel because of the laws against Palestinians: they aren't full citizens or something. Palestinians in Israel are no different than Kurds in Iraq: or something.

The authorization of Military Force portion is pretty nebulous. There had already been a pretty big force there. That resolution could have authorized anything from firing a few ground to ground missiles or rockets at Iraqi factories to a full invasion.

Once some kind of civil war or insurrection breaks out in Saudi Arabia history might vindicate Bush and Cheney. They can say that was their plan the whole time. These tend to be labor intensive wars though. The primary advantage of superior technology would be to kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of people really fast. Nerve gas is a little cheaper than massive doses of napalm, agent orange, and conventional explosives dropped from air craft that cost at least 50 million dollars.

It is hard to keep track of what is legitimate and what is not acceptable. In business management there is this concept called "rework". Taking out Iraq seems to have resulted in a lot of "rework". The sectarian violence and infrastructure collapse seems to have killed more Iraqis than the Hussein regime killed in the 80s.

If the goal to thwart Al Queda and defeat the cultural phenomena of Islamic Extremism was the point of invading Iraq, this also has produced a lot of "rework".

I won't question the legality of it though. Law is too complicated for me. not that there's anything we can do about it whether its legal or not. They've made a lot of money doing this, and will continue being more successful than most of all of us. The most we can do is laugh at late night talk show jokes about them, and look down on them from some moral high horse.

[Ryan Salo]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,326065,00.html

[Valerie Molinski]

Fox News is the last place I would check for 'fair and balanced' news reporting.

Do you guys actually think I don't read any thing? That I am just saying these things and coming up with them out of thin air? I read too, a lot actually, and not just liberal news sources that match with my own sensibilities. I try to take everything I read and formulate my own opinion.

I don't get where spouting link after link is having a discussion on this. I've read a lot of what you have linked too, so don't think because I dont agree with some of it that I am ignoring the truth. And it isn't TRUTH. It is a version of one person's or one source's truth. It takes more than internet and wiki links to brainwash me. Even the media admits that it didnt ask the questions it should have back when all this info and intel was coming out, so I certainly dont take what is being reported as the final truth either.

I am hoping others have taken the time to consider these issues instead of just getting spoonfed by the media, whether right or left.

[Ryan Salo]

Valerie,

Since you are not getting your truth from the media or reporters, when was your last trip to Iraq? How many Veterans have you talked to about the progress we have made there?

I put the link because I found it interesting the progress we have made in one of the worst cities in the country. I am very proud of our military and what they have accomplished. I believe that report and I believe the dozens of soldiers I have talked to that have been over there.

It is always interesting that when someone disagrees with you they must not have taken the time to to consider "issues". It is ashame that you do not have more respect for people.

BTW - the link wasn't aimed at anyone specific, just a general good article about our progress. It is interesting though that you said you read a lot but just never on Foxnews. Sounds like you get a lot of balanced info.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Ryan, why are we in Iraq? Can you list all the reason we have been given? What's the latest one?

Did you know more of our American armed forces donated to Ron Paul than any other candidate? Did you know that Ron Paul promises to bring our troops home? Perhaps they know something you don't. We shouldn't be there.

How can we afford the global expansionism of the Bush administration? Have you read Pat Buchanan's book, "Where the Right went wrong?" Pat looks at history and sees that no country can rule the world. Britain was the last to try. Dr. Paul states our expansion will also end. The question is whether we do it on our terms, now or wait till our nation is foreclosed upon.

You mention a success with an Iraqi city. At what price? Would New Orleans be rebuilt now if we didn't divert our resources to Iraq?

[Ryan Salo]

I have agreed that we went over there on some false information. I just wanted to remind people that almost ALL of our election officials agreed to go in.
The link was just saying that we are making progress, and I think we need to try to stay there until the Iraqi's can stand on their own two feet, then we need most of our military to leave. The issue to me isn't a presence it is how many are there and what the death toll is. I am not a 100% McCain supporter but I agree with his view of the war.

I am not surprised that people risking their lives and leaving their families would give money to a candidate that promises to leave. The brave men and woman don't want to see any more die. Unfortunately we are there now and we need to make sure it is stable enough for us to leave.

I think that it is interesting that all these Democrats ran on pulling out of Iraq and then nothing happened. Maybe they know more than the average citizen about how to go about this. Maybe they have access to meetings and information that isn't available to bloggers. Maybe they have military and political leaders educating them on correct stategies.

I do not know the details but it seems obvious that we cannot simply pull out, if we could the Democrats would have done it already to ensure a Democrat President and additional Democrat victories. Most of them make daily decisions based on poll numbers and the war is definitely not popular on either side of the isle. We all know most politicians on both sides will say anything someone wants to hear simply to get elected, then they have to do what they can to get things accomplished and sometimes what they promise isn't even feasible.

Thankfully we do not live in a true democracy with the media we have now. We would vote for things that should never be done and neglect to do things that should.

[Stephen Eisel]

Would New Orleans be rebuilt now if we didn't divert our resources to Iraq?

No

[Stephen Eisel]

Fox News is the last place I would check for 'fair and balanced' news reporting.

Do you guys actually think I don't read any thing? That I am just saying these things and coming up with them out of thin air? I read too, a lot actually, and not just liberal news sources that match with my own sensibilities. I try to take everything I read and formulate my own opinion.

I don't get where spouting link after link is having a discussion on this. I've read a lot of what you have linked too, so don't think because I dont agree with some of it that I am ignoring the truth. And it isn't TRUTH. It is a version of one person's or one source's truth. It takes more than internet and wiki links to brainwash me. Even the media admits that it didnt ask the questions it should have back when all this info and intel was coming out, so I certainly dont take what is being reported as the final truth either.

I am hoping others have taken the time to consider these issues instead of just getting spoonfed by the media, whether right or left.

Why should we look at the "facts"?

[David Scott]

Stephen how can you so quick to say that New Orleans would be the same if we had not diverted our National Guard and money to Iraq.

I am not an economist, but I think its funny that now politicians are saying we need an economic stimulus by providing money and jobs to the American people when we have diverted so much funds to a tremendous mistake. If we had taken 33% of the money and spent in on education and 33% of the money and spent it on our infrastructure we would be so much further ahead then where we are.

The cost of lost human life is tragic, the expanding fiscal cost is crippling our economy and has left us ineffective in Darfur, Kenya, Gaza, etc

we accomplished the stated mission - there are no weapons of mass destruction and Saddam Hussein is no longer in power. We have no further fear of Iraqi nuclear weapons - so why do we stay ?

[Valerie Molinski]

Valerie,

Since you are not getting your truth from the media or reporters, when was your last trip to Iraq?

Ok, I am on lunch now and my blood sugar is a little low, so forgive me if I make little sense:

I am saying that what is being reported is often what sells the most. I am saying that I do not get all my info and form an opinion based on only what the media tells me because I know there is more than one side. My BIL who is over there again is very positive about what we are doing over there. I am not talking about progress, and when and where we should leave... jsut that we were taken there by our sitting president under false pretenses. What we should do now and why are a another post. This ONE is about 935 lies told to get us there and to get the backing of the American people.

It is always interesting that when someone disagrees with you they must not have taken the time to to consider "issues". It is ashame that you do not have more respect for people.

Where did I say no one here is no taking in the issues? Oh, yes, I didnt. I am saying, I hope we (the royal we and no one specifically) are taking it all in and forming our own opinions instead of taking one source or side as truth.

BTW - the link wasn't aimed at anyone specific, just a general good article about our progress. It is interesting though that you said you read a lot but just never on Foxnews. Sounds like you get a lot of balanced info.

I read Fox News a lot actually. I like to know what my enemy is up to and talking about. I also listen to Rush Limbaugh on occasion even though he is a pompous pill popping windbag. I read and hear both sides whether I agree or not.

[Stephen Eisel]

Stephen how can you so quick to say that New Orleans would be the same if we had not diverted our National Guard and money to Iraq.

The biggest factor (in my humble opinion) is the ability to rebuild a levee system that will not fail..

[Valerie Molinski]

Ryan, I totally agree with you on the stay or go thing and I do agree with Mc Cain on this. The "100% immediate pull out" line is very popular with my fellow dems because it sounds really good and will get them votes. They know that this would be nearly impossible. We've already caused enough instablilty in the region.

[David Scott]

Stephen - I don't know how to do the quote thing, and I don't care to learn so I have to respond to you directly - but what is the cost of rebuilding the levee's to a Hurrican 5 level : they have been built to a Hurrican 3 level I am just not sure of what the cost difference is. You must know because it is in excess of what we have spent in Iraq the last few years. And don't you think the presence of the National Guard could of mitigated the aftermath ? But there was no National Guard to have. The war in Iraq is bankrupting this county and I don't understand how fiscal conservatives cannot see this

The other thing I don't understand about your thinking is why was San Francisco rebuilt after the earthquake of about a dozen years ago. An earthquake of that magnitude in San Francisco is most likely statistically higher then a Level 5 Hurrican directly hitting New Orleans.