I take back what I said in an earlier post about the meeting I attended. I had two council people confused. It was Councilman BULLOCK who was rolling his eyes during testimonies. I coud be wrong, could be some sort of tic or something.
This development is disappointing to say the least. It is starting to feel more and more like a witch hunt.
(edited because I accidentally wrote POWERS, which was incorrect.)
Nothing But Pure Ignorance
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Valerie Molinski
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Missy Limkemann
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Shawn Juris
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Missy Limkemann
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I keep asking people if I should get a pen too, you know because of my dogs and they all laugh at me.
And I do have insurance for all my personal dogs and my rescue. So I am more than compliant with every ordinance out there. I do have a pen if I come across a pit that needs help.
Oh and here is one for ya'll. On July 4th a stray Rottweiler found its way to my home. A huge 100+ pound girl. The warden's office was closed, and I called the police number given out by the answering machine and the dispatcher told me "Let the dog go." LET THE DOG GO?!?! Are you kidding me? I thankfully have a vet's office open 24/7 and they were able to take the dog. I was not equipped to host a huge party, hold 8 puppies in rescue and take on this big dog. I was not prepared for it and there was no way I could prepare myself for the needs of a huge stray dog. But to tell someone let the dog go shows there is more of a problem than just pits.
And I do have insurance for all my personal dogs and my rescue. So I am more than compliant with every ordinance out there. I do have a pen if I come across a pit that needs help.
Oh and here is one for ya'll. On July 4th a stray Rottweiler found its way to my home. A huge 100+ pound girl. The warden's office was closed, and I called the police number given out by the answering machine and the dispatcher told me "Let the dog go." LET THE DOG GO?!?! Are you kidding me? I thankfully have a vet's office open 24/7 and they were able to take the dog. I was not equipped to host a huge party, hold 8 puppies in rescue and take on this big dog. I was not prepared for it and there was no way I could prepare myself for the needs of a huge stray dog. But to tell someone let the dog go shows there is more of a problem than just pits.
Time is precious, waste is wisely
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Brad Hutchison
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Also an example of someone willingly complying when informed of the current laws.Shawn Juris wrote:Glad to see that this resulted in one more owner coming into compliance.
I was thinking about prospective home buyers (who may own a pit bull) who might be looking at Lakewood. If the ban passes, I wonder whose job it will be to tell them their dog is banned before they close on a home, since no one was informed of the current laws. I suppose the answer would still be "No one's."
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Stan Austin
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Lynn Farris
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To me this is much scarier than Pit Bulls. (I do not own any dogs - so don't waste your time investigating me.). The Freedom of Speech is one of the most important hallmarks of our society. The right to protest when you think the council or government is doing something wrong is indeed the cornerstone of our democracy.
If people are afraid to speak up without worrying about being investigated or intimidated that is scary. Debate is healthy in society and this is a worthwhile debate. People should be allowed to express their opinion and provide evidence pro and con without fear of retribution.
Didn't Nixon have an enemies list and anyone that dared critize him get investigated by the IRS? Isn't that one of the reason for his resignation?
If people are afraid to speak up without worrying about being investigated or intimidated that is scary. Debate is healthy in society and this is a worthwhile debate. People should be allowed to express their opinion and provide evidence pro and con without fear of retribution.
Didn't Nixon have an enemies list and anyone that dared critize him get investigated by the IRS? Isn't that one of the reason for his resignation?
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
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Hope Robbins
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Melissa, we really have to quit running into each other! It seems I find you, or you find me everywhere! I wish now we had met under different circumstances, but I am glad to know you!
Lynn, That is exactly why they put the story out there. It is a violation.
None of us should be walking around looking over our shoulder wondering where the next shot is coming from!
The right to petition is the freedom of individuals (and sometimes groups and corporations) to petition their government for a correction or repair of some form of injustice without fear of punishment for the same
Had I have not witnessed everything from beginning to end, had they not targeted Melissa, had the prosecutor not lied on the record about us ALL being out of compliance, perhaps I might not think something really STINKS HERE! I would still not agree, but I would not be so furious and determined to fight ...to have some , not all council members removed, and want my name cleared in the public!
This is what is NOT acceptable to me about what was said. It's
Defamation: Defamation consists of a publication of a statement of alleged fact which is false and which harms the reputation of another person.(1) Our right to freedom of expression is restricted when our expressions (whether a spoken slander or written libel) cause harm to the reputation of another person. The courts recognize that words can hurt us ….
Jim, that is why, I said what I said about leaving. I guess my view is that my intention would not be to hurt my neighbors, but I guess I would say, if everyone sees this for what it is, then I would hope they get "rid" of the problem, and then I would be happy to stay. We are the one's who decide who are our voices. I guess I might have a problem with the residents keeping someone in council as my representative who I think has some real issues. I wonder if left as is, what other rights might I lose? Would I ever have the courage to go to another meeting to fight?
Would I face being sued in the growing tend of "Slappers" suits being filed? I also don't morally agree with us being able to decide the beginning of the end of an entire species of dog, based on no facts that our lives would be any safer for it? I don't think we have that right, I don't think the governement does. So that would be my problem staying here. I see 2 supporters for every 100 opposers? We have asked for the records, emails, which we have a right to by law, and we have been refused?
Ohio Public Record Law has been violated. I have a huge problem with all this "funny" business going on.
I will not live in a city that has people who decide my fate, and who have the ability to make my life hell in the process. I hope it doesn't come to that Jim. I hope in the time it would take for me to sell the stupid thing, something would change. It is not a hollow threat. If I continue to meet more and more residents like many here, on the buzz, at the meetings, and online who support moving out representatives who have some other agenda, and move in ones who really care about safety, I am happy to stay here! Perhaps we will have justice, perhaps I might calm down and change my mind, for now I am just pissed. I am floored. I am sad.
I have met so many wonderful people in the last few months. I have seen a community willing to partner with the very government they passionately disagree with, and that is why I moved here , stayed here, bought my home here, and wanted to raise my kids here. I hope justice is done here, not just for the dogs, but for the residents. I don't give up easy Jim, but if I feel unsafe...and I risk being attacked and investigated, I am human and not perfect, some way or another it will get me where it hurts too much, effects my family too much, and I will leave. Until then I will fight, I will help my community and my neighbors to become educated. I hope you understand my perspective Jim.
And after all this new knowledge of behind the scenes issues, defamation of character, possible first amendment rights violations, and now State laws being broken.....do the same council members who went on record to say they ARE NOT ready to vote on this, and not before recess, now seem to be headed for a vote as early as Monday? Are we trying to get this pushed through before all hell breaks loose? Why the rush? Again, something stinks .....
Jim I hope meeting more people like you and many others, will change my mind about leaving. Your kind words and obvious intelligence is appreciated and certainly received at a good time. I hope this community and my neighbors help change my mind. I am very proud of many of them, just to know them and to have met them as we all come together as a community.
Regards.,
Hope
Lynn, That is exactly why they put the story out there. It is a violation.
None of us should be walking around looking over our shoulder wondering where the next shot is coming from!
The right to petition is the freedom of individuals (and sometimes groups and corporations) to petition their government for a correction or repair of some form of injustice without fear of punishment for the same
Had I have not witnessed everything from beginning to end, had they not targeted Melissa, had the prosecutor not lied on the record about us ALL being out of compliance, perhaps I might not think something really STINKS HERE! I would still not agree, but I would not be so furious and determined to fight ...to have some , not all council members removed, and want my name cleared in the public!
This is what is NOT acceptable to me about what was said. It's
Defamation: Defamation consists of a publication of a statement of alleged fact which is false and which harms the reputation of another person.(1) Our right to freedom of expression is restricted when our expressions (whether a spoken slander or written libel) cause harm to the reputation of another person. The courts recognize that words can hurt us ….
Jim, that is why, I said what I said about leaving. I guess my view is that my intention would not be to hurt my neighbors, but I guess I would say, if everyone sees this for what it is, then I would hope they get "rid" of the problem, and then I would be happy to stay. We are the one's who decide who are our voices. I guess I might have a problem with the residents keeping someone in council as my representative who I think has some real issues. I wonder if left as is, what other rights might I lose? Would I ever have the courage to go to another meeting to fight?
Would I face being sued in the growing tend of "Slappers" suits being filed? I also don't morally agree with us being able to decide the beginning of the end of an entire species of dog, based on no facts that our lives would be any safer for it? I don't think we have that right, I don't think the governement does. So that would be my problem staying here. I see 2 supporters for every 100 opposers? We have asked for the records, emails, which we have a right to by law, and we have been refused?
Ohio Public Record Law has been violated. I have a huge problem with all this "funny" business going on.
I will not live in a city that has people who decide my fate, and who have the ability to make my life hell in the process. I hope it doesn't come to that Jim. I hope in the time it would take for me to sell the stupid thing, something would change. It is not a hollow threat. If I continue to meet more and more residents like many here, on the buzz, at the meetings, and online who support moving out representatives who have some other agenda, and move in ones who really care about safety, I am happy to stay here! Perhaps we will have justice, perhaps I might calm down and change my mind, for now I am just pissed. I am floored. I am sad.
I have met so many wonderful people in the last few months. I have seen a community willing to partner with the very government they passionately disagree with, and that is why I moved here , stayed here, bought my home here, and wanted to raise my kids here. I hope justice is done here, not just for the dogs, but for the residents. I don't give up easy Jim, but if I feel unsafe...and I risk being attacked and investigated, I am human and not perfect, some way or another it will get me where it hurts too much, effects my family too much, and I will leave. Until then I will fight, I will help my community and my neighbors to become educated. I hope you understand my perspective Jim.
And after all this new knowledge of behind the scenes issues, defamation of character, possible first amendment rights violations, and now State laws being broken.....do the same council members who went on record to say they ARE NOT ready to vote on this, and not before recess, now seem to be headed for a vote as early as Monday? Are we trying to get this pushed through before all hell breaks loose? Why the rush? Again, something stinks .....
Jim I hope meeting more people like you and many others, will change my mind about leaving. Your kind words and obvious intelligence is appreciated and certainly received at a good time. I hope this community and my neighbors help change my mind. I am very proud of many of them, just to know them and to have met them as we all come together as a community.
Regards.,
Hope
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Shawn Juris
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Any chance for a link to the prosecutor's quote. All I could find was something from the Craig's List post and what seemed to be resulting comments from that information. I have read that Tony Sinagra posted something similar but he is a former official. Was this comment what was being referred to?
Also, are there details as to what the ratio of opponents who spoke out against the ban were. I for one would be interested to learn how many were opposing it on principle (meaning they didn't have a dog that would be effected by this possible ban), and how many were in compliance vs not in compliance who actually have a pit bull.
The further bit of information that would be helpful in this discussion is if we accept that there are 50 pit bulls that animal control knows of in the city, how many are in compliance and what requirements are not met if they are not in compliance with the existing laws. For those who are not in compliance what is being done to correct this in the meantime while this debate about a ban continues?
The last and most difficult question would be how does the city improve the registration process so that animal control can have the information to follow up on owners of dogs which have heightened requirements. I get that there will always be those who say that the law shouldn't exist at all. Having an organization doesn't mean it's accepted by the larger society though and until the laws and the insurance companies and the public in general changes the way they approach this situation, owners have an obligation and duty to follow the regulations. Note I said owners have the duty, not that the city has the responsibility to hand hold these folks. If this means stricter financial penalties or a ban then so be it.
Also, are there details as to what the ratio of opponents who spoke out against the ban were. I for one would be interested to learn how many were opposing it on principle (meaning they didn't have a dog that would be effected by this possible ban), and how many were in compliance vs not in compliance who actually have a pit bull.
The further bit of information that would be helpful in this discussion is if we accept that there are 50 pit bulls that animal control knows of in the city, how many are in compliance and what requirements are not met if they are not in compliance with the existing laws. For those who are not in compliance what is being done to correct this in the meantime while this debate about a ban continues?
The last and most difficult question would be how does the city improve the registration process so that animal control can have the information to follow up on owners of dogs which have heightened requirements. I get that there will always be those who say that the law shouldn't exist at all. Having an organization doesn't mean it's accepted by the larger society though and until the laws and the insurance companies and the public in general changes the way they approach this situation, owners have an obligation and duty to follow the regulations. Note I said owners have the duty, not that the city has the responsibility to hand hold these folks. If this means stricter financial penalties or a ban then so be it.
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Missy Limkemann
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well i for one dont own a pit but yet i am against the ban. for so many reasons. where is the money going to come from to enforce this law? do you think people are going to take their dogs, skip merrily to the warden's office singing a verse of "we are the world" and hand their pets over? yeah that is not going to happen. and where are these dogs going to go? we dont have a place to hold them here, they will DIE. Do you get that? These dogs will die for no reason other than they look like a certain way. My purebred lab has a block head should she die too because of her head shape? THE DOGS WILL DIE!!! Probably in a gas chamber too,because there are still alot of pounds that use them.
I feel bad for those that own these dogs. A muzzle? Do you know dogs sweat from their tongue so a muzzle could kill them in the extreme heat. Oh and the laws, unless you know where to find the laws, you wouldnt know about them. The only reason I know most of them is because I had to look them up for my rescue. Oh and I used to work for attorneys so I know where to find stuff. (and I still have my "people" to help)
Funny how you buy a house here and you get your tax paperwork the next day but yet they never send you anything about important ordinances of the city. I think maybe they should do something about that. There are so many ordinances out there that i am sure we dont know about and we are all breaking them.
Right now I am fighting to protect my children. I was taking my foster dog out for a walk and some *insert what ever choice word you want here* took a picture of my children and myself and my dog and called me on it. Dork person didnt realize that I was walking a Boxer/Bulldog mix with paperwork to prove breed and the statement from the warden that he is not a pit. So now someone out there has my children's picture on their cell phone. Yeah that is just great. Who knows what kind of person this was or what they are doing with my children's picture. How scary is that?
I feel bad for those that own these dogs. A muzzle? Do you know dogs sweat from their tongue so a muzzle could kill them in the extreme heat. Oh and the laws, unless you know where to find the laws, you wouldnt know about them. The only reason I know most of them is because I had to look them up for my rescue. Oh and I used to work for attorneys so I know where to find stuff. (and I still have my "people" to help)
Funny how you buy a house here and you get your tax paperwork the next day but yet they never send you anything about important ordinances of the city. I think maybe they should do something about that. There are so many ordinances out there that i am sure we dont know about and we are all breaking them.
Right now I am fighting to protect my children. I was taking my foster dog out for a walk and some *insert what ever choice word you want here* took a picture of my children and myself and my dog and called me on it. Dork person didnt realize that I was walking a Boxer/Bulldog mix with paperwork to prove breed and the statement from the warden that he is not a pit. So now someone out there has my children's picture on their cell phone. Yeah that is just great. Who knows what kind of person this was or what they are doing with my children's picture. How scary is that?
Time is precious, waste is wisely
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Valerie Molinski
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I do not own a pit bull either and I am opposed to this ban. I don't know how anyone with pets can support something like this. I honestly don't. I would like anyone who supports this to go view a euthanization at a pound of a surrendered pet who is otherwise healthy, just killed because it is unwanted.well i for one dont own a pit but yet i am against the ban. for so many reasons.
.I was taking my foster dog out for a walk and some *insert what ever choice word you want here* took a picture of my children and myself and my dog and called me on it
Unreal. I cannot believe it is coming to this.
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Brad Hutchison
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Valerie Molinski wrote:... just killed because it is unwanted.
Not unwanted, just illegal.
That's exactly what it will come to, because of uncertainty surrounding what does and does not qualify as a "pit bull."Unreal. I cannot believe it is coming to this.
Shawn, do you not agree that this type of law, being rare and a bit unusual, might require some special notification to residents, especially with regard to the severity of the punishment? We're not talking about a citation for putting your garbage out on the wrong day. We're talking about a misdemeanor and having your dog impounded.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
-Gandhi
-Gandhi
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Ed Dickson
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Shawn Juris
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I believe there are other animals like chickens and goats that are prohibitted due to local ordinances. I seriously doubt the city include this in a welcome packet. In this day and age, I would say that this discussion would be used to inform potential residents with pit bulls of what they should expect. Would it be sufficient to post a button on the appropriate page within the city website to detail relevant pet information?
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Shawn Juris
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Most densely populated city between NYC and Chicago with a complaint ratio that seems far out of balance with the supposed number of registered dogs of this breed. It's a problem that needs a solution and if there are enough who are sympathetic to this kind of dog then they wouldn't be killed, they would just be sent somewhere that they are welcome.