Nothing But Pure Ignorance

Brad Hutchison · Post by **Brad Hutchison** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:33 pm

http://blog.cleveland.com/plaindealer/2 ... n_pit.html

While I agree that some people should be banned from owning any dog, a ban on a specific breed is absolutely absurd. Until now, Lakewood had showed more common sense than some surrounding communities. This is ridiculous.

Sorry, but this is a topic I feel very strongly about.

Ruthie Koenigsmark · Post by **Ruthie Koenigsmark** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:21 pm

I'm with you Brian---this is the craziest thing I have heard in awhile--doesn't anyone ever watch the Dog Whisperer--it's not the breed but the owner! Maybe some owners of Pits should throw a Pit Bull Awareness Day or Luv-a-Bully March...its lack of awareness and irresponsible owners that are the problem not the breed.

Lets start a ROVERlution! http://www.roverlution.org/marches2_080507.html

Brad Hutchison · Post by **Brad Hutchison** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:32 pm

Thanks, Ruthie. I e-mailed the mayor, Councilman Powers, and my Ward 2 Councilman Bullock. Hopefully others will too.

Lynn Farris · Post by **Lynn Farris** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:56 pm

I thought BSL was illegal in Ohio, but I guess the court overturned that decision.

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3280

I have mixed emotions about this legislation. I know many great dogs that are sweet and well trained and a joy to be around that are often listed as dangerous dogs.

However, I am also well aware that children in particular (but everyone)needs to be trained to be around dogs - all dogs. I am also wary of scaring a dog - or doing something that they think could endanger their family. A sweet lovable dog will protect his family. This could be as innocent as 2 boys wrestling and the dog doesn't understand playing and goes to protect.

However in the scope of problems facing Lakewood - this wasn't at the top of my list either.

Summer is coming very quickly. Let's get the hoops up and give kids a place to play so that they have some positive ways to burn off steam this summer.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:09 pm

Lynn

Having owned a pit bull and Dogeaux De Bordeaux's I have a pretty good library on "fighting dogs." The fact is that almost every breed has been used at one time another for fighting or "pit."

That said, The true Pit Bull is a very specialized dog that leans heavily towards the nature of terriers, ie One person dogs. However a well trained pit bull is like a well trained irish setter. A great dog to be around.

I was wondering how the pit bull attacked the man's face? Seems a little high even for a pit? I feel we are missing some of that story.

I see no problem with the current plan, and making "dangerous dog owners" carry insurance. The city already has a three bite and dead policy.

FWIW

.

Brad Hutchison · Post by **Brad Hutchison** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:14 pm

This is an interesting quote from the article Lynn just posted:

"...the trial court found that even though pit bulls are not more dangerous than other breeds, there was sufficient evidence to support the city's claim that pit bulls present dangers in an urban setting."

What kind of sense does that make?

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:40 pm

Ultimately, outlawing pit bulls means outlawing that urban element that people don't want. It is not just about dogs... it's about the perceived majority of the type of people that own those dogs... ie non white.

They tried this in the last city I lived and enough people fought it that it didnt go through. But my good friend had a mix that was identified as part pit (she wasnt really) and her two dogs would wrestle a lot. One time, the 'pit' hurt her other dog's leg and the vet had to 'make a report' due to the breed. Completely ridiculous.

Furthermore, people encompass many types of dogs as 'pits' and I think attacks can be misreported.

Find the Pit:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:09 pm

Yep - that's our law enforcement mayor.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Mon May 19, 2008 5:11 pm

Old School Pit Bull (clicky)

Anne Steiner · Post by **Anne Steiner** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:02 pm

I guess I don't see the 'mystique' of owning a bully breed. I mean there are many different kinds of dog breeds, why do people choose to own one?

I'd like to know how many responsible bully breed owners have the proper insurence to have their beloved pet.

If you want the dog...than fine, comply with the law. Leashes, muzzles, fences and insurance.

Brad Hutchison · Post by **Brad Hutchison** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:45 pm

The "mystique" for these owners is that they're loyal dogs, great family pets, wonderful with children, and have a great temperment (and, if I may say so, they're good snugglers and awfully damn cute). Do some reading on these breeds:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanstaffordshire.htm
http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_bull_terrier

What's the mystique of owning a German Shepherd, Golden Retriever, Poodle, Chihuahua, Petit Basset Griffon Vendeen, etc.? If I, or whomever, chooses to own a bully breed, what difference does it make?

Anne, there are lots of different cars, computers, digital cameras, breakfast cereals... why do you own the ones you have?

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Mon May 19, 2008 8:58 pm

Annie

I think Jack Russells followed by Golden Retrivers are the USA bite leaders, the past couple years. For awhile it was dalmations. Shepards, Dobermans, are always high on the list. The worst biter would be Airdales that were outlawed during the WWII for military use. Poodles breed from Babettes, were used as fighting dogs, and did hold their own against boars. The breed I own was used to hunt bears and then into the ring.

If it had six legs - two it was used to fight. From human to crabs.

Alas the nature of man.

The pit is an intensely loyal dog, and stops most people at sight. Like the click of a shotgun.

FWIW

.

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:16 pm

Will council take seriously Cocker Spaniel Aggression?

Lynn Farris · Post by **Lynn Farris** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm

Jim,

I had both a Golden and a Rhodesian Ridgeback. In our perspective we all would have another Rhodesian in a minute - to all of us, he was as close to the perfect dog as we could imagine, none of us are up for another Golden - although he had a heart of gold. But I'm sure most people would consider the Rhodesian a "scarier dog".

But I questioned the biting of a Golden. They had very tender mouths, designed to carry a duck without biting into it.

The CDC, has the following report, "He believes, however, that no big dog should be considered safe around a baby, no matter how gentle or well trained the dog.

Shepherds accounted for 34 of the biters, but only 13 of the nonbiters. There were 31 chow chows among the biters and only nine in the nonbiting group.

Another breed substantially more likely to be a biter was the collie; eight collies were among biters and only one was among the nonbiters.

Safest breeds were golden retrievers and standard poodles. Only two goldens were among biters, while 13 were among nonbiters. Four poodles were among nonbiters, while 14 nonbiters belonged to the breed.

There was only one pit bull in the study and it was a nonbiter. New ownership of pit bulls was banned in Denver County in 1989. "

And the study proves my previous statement that children and people in general need to be taught how to behave around dogs.

They say human ignorance of dog behavior, such as a child running up to and hugging a dog, often is to blame for dog bites.

Almost all herding breeds bite or at least nip at heels. That is what they are bred to do - get the sheep or what not to go where they want them to - that could be a child if they have no sheep to herd. It is instinct. And no one worries about Lassie.

I have no problem with insurance. But what is really needed is well socialized dogs, well treated dogs, well trained dogs and strangers that know how to approach dogs.
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pi ... 090480.htm

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:44 pm

Anne Steiner wrote:I guess I don't see the 'mystique' of owning a bully breed.

This is Lucy, fresh from a triumphant appearance in a 4th of July parade...

She's a rescued dog - one of three Pits...