Low Level Disorderly and Borderline Behaviors

[Jim O'Bryan]

The second thing is the idea that we KNOW where the problems with bars are. We KNOW the bars.

Actually while this thread seems to be bar related I am speaking of larger issues in Lakewood that I rarely bring to online discussions.

The very simple truth is just like in the old west. We need the county to understand Lakewood is a fun safe place if you are a responsible person. If you are not, we will be your worst nightmare, best you party, rob, solicit, sell drugs, steal cars, break into garages somewhere else.


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[Joan Roberts]

Right you are. But my point is that bar issues are totally different from day-to-day problems of petty burglary, vandalism, etc.

I remember Dad telling my brothers the best way to win a bar fight: Don't get in one. Alcohol not only decreases judgment, it increases belligerence. That's why you need the official force of the law to deal with this. Really, nothing else will do, and no matter what the citizens can try, I believe that particular problem only gets solved when the city decides to get serious about it and deploy the manpower to do it.

Again, it doesn't mean three squad cars parked outside McCarthy's forever, but it does mean an increased and unmistakable presence until things calm down.

On the other hand, the graffiti artists, window breakers, and folks who want to steal the bike from your front porch WILL think twice if they know people are watching.

[Jim O'Bryan]

...On the other hand, the graffiti artists, window breakers, and folks who want to steal the bike from your front porch WILL think twice if they know people are watching.

Joan

And as we do not have the finances for police nor the hundreds of volunteers to keep property values up.

Random acts of exercise by happy "packs of residents" could help with the mystique.

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[Joan Roberts]

...On the other hand, the graffiti artists, window breakers, and folks who want to steal the bike from your front porch WILL think twice if they know people are watching.

Joan

And as we do not have the finances for police nor the hundreds of volunteers to keep property values up.

Random acts of exercise by happy "packs of residents" could help with the mystique.

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I really think you're misunderstanding, what I'm getting at. Let me clarify.

The job of confronting, challenging, and if necessary, detaining belligerent drunks is the job of professional law enforcement. This is NOT a task for "happy packs of residents". It IS a sure-fire prescription for "random acts of disaster".

I don't think we need to scrutinize all Lakewood bars all the time. We have a tiny number of offending (and offensive) establishments, and the problem hours are very limited and predictable.

Not even asking for more bodies to be hired, just re-assigning some of the hours. If we can't pull that off, we are in serious trouble.

Again, anything anyone wants to organize is fine. But I'm pretty sure the neighbors around the problem bars are already pretty vigilant. Nothing gets fixed without an enhanced official presence.

[Shawn Juris]

This is a matter of perspective but I'll raise it to be devil's advocate. Police presence in Lakewood is great. Their response time is amazing. While I agree that X number of visits by the LPD are of concern, this seems to also be an opening for the ol' "statistics can show what you want them to". If we move this to say 4 miles south of us, would the Cleveland police have been able to respond to each of these complaints? Would we be in such a tizzy if there were only 20 police reports over 2 years? How many calls are average? How many calls are "acceptable" and who is making that determination?

It's a business in Lakewood and while there are problems connected to it, the police should simply enforce the law and the local residents will find a way to deal with it and go on with their day. I've never complained that the helicopter at Lakewood Hospital wakes me up at night. I knew what I was getting into when I moved in to a house a 1/2 a block away from a hospital. Seems reasonable to expect a certain amount of noise if they live that close to a bar. It does remind me though of the complaints that used to come in about "those darned kids" back when the Chat Room was open. Some folks like to plop themselves in the middle of a field and complain that there's a baseball game going on around them. There's no way to please everyone but we're not Bay Village, we do allow liquor to be sold and if the response shifts against bars and their patrons, Lakewood will have bitten the hand that feeds it. If Mr. Baseball bat has a suggestion for some other way to start filling these vacant storefronts, I'm sure that many would be interested in listening.

[Lynn Farris]

I'm a little confused. When the police make arrests, illegal parking, speeding, running traffic lights, drunk and disorderly, public urination, littering etc. Aren't the people fined?

Doesn't the fines that a policeman generates exceed his salary? If that is so, and I'm not sure if it is, can't we afford to hire more police? Seems to me Lakewood should clean up on Friday and Saturday nights alone.

[ryan costa]

Where do the fines go to? Do they go to the police force operating budget? Do the courts take a cut? Where does it all go?

[Jeff Endress]

In any criminal matter, there can be both fines and court costs. They are different. I could be wrong, but I believe that only the court costs are retained by the Muni Court (there are also some portions for various State funds, victim of crime, etc.).

I believe that the fines are remitted to the city and become a part of the general fund. Some cities are able to fund their entire governmental operations through court fines (ala Lindale).

Jeff