Low Level Disorderly and Borderline Behaviors

[Kenneth Warren]

I think it’s fair to say from the LO Deck that people in Lakewood are interested in how we can sensibly and intelligently address - even within the current budgetary constraints - the problem of low level disorderly and borderline behaviors. Such behaviors distress neighborhoods and raise expectations for police action on matters of dispute not necessarily critical in the mix of calls, given available manpower and law enforcement responsibilities.

Last night’s council meeting contained interesting and informative discussion about place-based problems of low level disorderly behavior that impinges on “quality of lifeâ€Â

[DougHuntingdon]

http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... f06b8d100b

Above is the link for a thread on the Lakewood Youth Master Plan for those like me who may have missed it.

Maybe I am too old, but it seems like Lakewood already has plenty of constructive things for youth to do. In an extremely walkable city of 5 square miles, this includes a skate park, other parks, pools, an expanding award-winning library, an expanding YMCA, great schools with related activities, theatres, karate studios, creepy stores for kids to buy things to shock their parents, etc. etc. etc. I would be curious as to the amount of public funding that the Youth Master Plan requires. I also know that many other cities have instituted Youth Master Plans. How successful have they been? (I do not know.)

As for vigilantes, the problem is that we live in a world that is sometimes turned upside down. A good neighbor vigilante may slash the tires of a drug dealer who is selling dope to kids. The vigilante may get in serious criminal trouble. Meanwhile, the drug dealer may go off scot free, at least for a long time. I am told by police that successful prosecution of drug dealers often requires extensive long-term monitoring of the drug activity, multiple buys of drugs by an undercover officer, etc.

Doug

[ryan costa]

There's no need for a case study. Some people just need a beating.

[DougHuntingdon]

Ryan - Do you think we should have caning like they do in Singapore? (I do.)

Doug

[ryan costa]

Ryan - Do you think we should have caning like they do in Singapore? (I do.)

Doug

I don't want to cane anyone. But if you see some annoying teenagers and feel like caning them, go ahead.

It takes a village...

[Jeff Endress]

But if you see some annoying teenagers and feel like caning them, go ahead

From a purely legal standpoint I would advise against the gratitious caning of annoying teenagers.

Jeff

[dl meckes]

From listening to the meeting last night and reading the LO Deck I sense that low level disorderly and borderline behaviors form the crux of the negative pole on the quality of life neighborhood barometer. Therefore a comprehensive community strategy that bundles the issues is required.

What was learned from last night City Council Meeting?

How can City Hall, Council, institutions, neighbors and neighborhoods develop a functional response to low level disorderly and borderline behaviors, clearly the subject of much attention at last night's meeting?

Kenneth Warren

Thank you for this thoughtful post. This is a conundrum for many neighbors.

Most solutions require cooperation, which is often not forthcoming.

Using our safety forces as resources (virtual caning) is also not optimal.

[Lynn Farris]

One of the things that I was very impressed with at the skate park was how the older boys maintained order in a very appropriate way. They were older teens or young twenties and when the younger kids got a little to rambunctious, bordering on dangerous, they would nicely tell them. I observed this social interaction numerous times, while Savannah would do counts at the park of the population.

I totally agree Jeff, that beating or caning is inappropriate, but I have no problems with suggesting that littering or graffiti isn't something that we want and nicely telling someone that they dropped something and pointing out where a trash can is located. .

I do think it takes a community to raise a child and sometimes with the crazy schedules of families today, children are down at parks by themselves. I know mine were too and if another parent had suggested that they put their trash in a trash can - I wouldn't have minded one bit, in fact I would have appreciated it. That is one of the things that I really like about Lakewood is that in so many ways it is a small town. We all look out for each other and the community.

And before you say it - I know it isn't all children - but that seems the easiest place to start.

[Kenneth Warren]

Thanks Doug for spotting Ms. Buckon's Youth Master Plan post, which features the idea of "a strategic planning process to enhance our ‘family friendly community’."

Sure there are good things for good kids in Lakewood. Lakewood Cares does set the stage for important work. Lakewood City Schools reports continued progress in formal testing.

But here we must consider the bad fruit hanging in front of young families and making them feel anxious and uncomfortable in their homes and yards.

It's important to realize some young parents did not grow up in urban or inner ring settings where low level disorderly behavior is more common.

One of the interesting things to me is whether or not the rooted and quickly dating experience of baby boomers who raised children successfully in Lakewood - Jeff, Lynn, Suzanne, me to name a few - is a reliable gauge to the experience of Gen X and Gen Y families just beginning or on the first rungs of the child rearing project.

I think not.

These are tales of innocence (Gen X & Y) and experience (Baby Boomers).

Listening to the young families last night, so very concerned for the innocence and protection of their very young children from malific forces and conditions, I wondered how the mitigation of low level and borderline behaviors would fit into the strategic planning process to enhance our ‘family friendly community’.

My take away from the young parents speaking last night was that they were not, in the immediate conditions of their nests, finding Lakewood to be a 'family friendly community.'

The fight/flight response seemed to be registering.

People in the various stations seemed overwhelmed by the situation.

The responsive connective tissue must spring from the community in coordination with City Hall and institutions. But the connective tissue must be thick, nimble and energetic.

Perhaps more so than the random block watch, an experimental LO posse, properly trained in coordination tactics with police and Youth Services, could be deployed to assist a young family in an effective intervention and follow-up support.

Kenneth Warren

[Joan Roberts]

Perhaps more so than the random block watch, an experimental LO posse, properly trained in coordination tactics with police and Youth Services, could be deployed to assist a young family in an effective intervention and follow-up support.

Kenneth Warren

The other alternative, of course, is to ENFORCE THE LAW.

Somehow, Lakewood always seems to have the manpower to ticket and tow people parking on Lake and Clifton during rush hour. Eventually, folks get the message. No need for any special intervention or programs.

My idea: Let Lake and Clilfton clog up a little bit with illegal parkers for a month or so, while the cops are re-deployed, with that same "zero tolerance" zeal they exhibit for the rush-hour scofflaws, to Detroit and Edwards Friday and Saturday night. Make any sense at all?

[Kenneth Warren]

Ms. Roberts:

Much like Mr. O's "ugly Lake trail bender," maybe you had to be there, last night, in the Council Chamber, that is, observing the speakers and the listeners.

I am, believe it or not, ever ready to "enforce the law." I don't see the current situation quite as neat and pat as you do. I am of course willing to see the city try your experiment. But that is really a crackdown.

So we can disagree, of course.

And I know you have said before in other posts something to the effect that given the tax freight here, the pros need to perform and do their job.

And you correctly perceive how insane an LO posse would be.

But maybe the single bullet point strategic plan for an LO posse would be enough to convince City Council and voters to pass an increased income tax and put more police on the street.

Who knows?

The chaotic flow states are often occuring in a borderline zone of civic dispute where norms are deteriorating, windows are breaking, hives are bustin out, the quality of life is spiralling lower, but the law has not yet been broken, and it's not quite the moment to lock 'em up.

Again it's "in-group/out group" cusp of chaos referenced theoretically in the "moral taste buds" post where much of Lakewood seems to be located.

Kenneth Warren

[Jim O'Bryan]

Joan/Ken

The problem is everyone is right on this.

But can we take a small step outside the box, and look at one possible scenario for life in Lakewood. It has to be a working relationship between the police, the residents and the bars. More police I just do not see in the budget.

So...

Bars agree to pay for whatever it takes to police area. Residents agree physical help. Every street cannot have their own police, so a low level block watch of three or more for a couple months. We organize now, work with city and police and bar owners all winter come out of the box hot the first warm summer. We repeat a simple mantra, "You can drink in our town, you just have to respect our town."

If Cain Park can dump 2,000 concert goers onto suburban streets at 1:00am with very little complaints from the neighbors, it can't be that hard to handle McCarthy's crowd.

I was talking with someone that mentioned he plays at McCarthy's. Mentioned like many bars they stay open until the last minute. The pushes hundreds on the streets in minutes. If he stopped serving, and turned up the lights 15 or 30 minutes earlier maybe people would trickle out on to the streets.

I really think the bar business is very important to this community and would really love to see these problems solved. Houses in my neighborhood are often rented by college grads that want to be close enough to walk to the bar. I have to think people that drink, but know it is better to walk to the bar and more intelligent, and can be trained easier.

The one thing I know Lakewood cannot afford to go Flats, ie a stupid accident or incident. At the meeting this past Sunday an older person told a story of being kept up night after night. It had gotten so bad he now set his alarm for 2:00am, grabs a baseball bat and sits on the porch. This is a bad sign on many levels and I am not even talking about the bars.

I am looking up the records, but I believe we have less bars today than in the past. Interesting problem, Applebees will want a liquor license.



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[Suzanne Metelko]

Monday's council meeting re: parks was disturbing on many levels. The neighbors who took the time to attend were there until after 10:00. I know they were stunned to have their concerns met with a taped message played by the Mayor. What was promoted as a spontaneous utterance seemed a contrivance. The social and behavior problems they brought to the council were expressed in a reasoned and reasonable manner. To have them trivialized in that way was painful to watch. It was equally painful to watch the gentleman from Public Works - Matt - explain his dilemma as he tries to do his job. I have a great amount of respect for him.

In the meantime, how can we begin to address the problems of respect and higher expectations with our community's children when we don't see it modeled by our community's leaders? City Council has the opportunity to set a new tone. City Council has the experience and talent to lead rather than follow. City Council has a community that is looking to them for action. Time is running out.

[Mark Crnolatas]

Vigilantes rarely work without some degree of problems flashing back on them. A block watch or "citizen's patrol" has worked all over the country for many years now. All one has to do, is google and you'll find a lot of city/citizen's organizations that have worked highly successfully and it doesn't cost the city money it doesn't have.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Vigilantes rarely work without some degree of problems flashing back on them. A block watch or "citizen's patrol" has worked all over the country for many years now. All one has to do, is google and you'll find a lot of city/citizen's organizations that have worked highly successfully and it doesn't cost the city money it doesn't have.

Mark


You and have spoken of this so many time it hurts my head. We both know that what we are talking about is so simple, that it is easy to make it fun, not a huge burden on time, and really bring neighbors together.

To be worried, but not willing to look out a window? I just cannot understand.


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