still waiting on Terry's list - didn't receive a private message either
how disappointing - well Terry I hope you had your fun
Doug
Boycotting Lakewood Observer Advertisers
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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DougHuntingdon
- Posts: 527
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Jeff Endress
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:13 am
- Location: Lakewood
Observers
It is a virtual impossibility to deal on a logical level with someone who exists in their own alternative reality. There is no logic in the implicit assertion that "Because I said it, it's right", and the follow-up logical bootstrapping that "since it's right, I don't have to provide factual support".
We have, for the past year, had revealing, instructive, and largely intelligent discussion, all with only our own personal sense of decorum keeping those discussions on a generrally civil level. We have done all this, dispite disparate views, varying politics and met in person and continued those discussions, sometimes over coffee, sometimes over stronger drink.
All of us have endeavored to excercise our freedom of speech without misrepresenting, misquoting, bullying or outright fallsifying. We have all been willing to rein ourselves in when we sometimes got a little too heated. All have been invited to participate without fear of recrimination or censorship.
We have all been witness to what has occrued over the past year. Our reality is of record. And no amount of shrill bombastic posturing can change the actual reality of the LO. Mr. Batdorf's creation of a vile threat ascribed to members of this panel is dangerous because the mere statement takes on a life of its own and I suspect that his "contributions" are calculated to be destructive of this forum, if not by creating allegations that take on a life of their own, then by sapping yuor time and efforts at dealing with and understanding his dark, Lewis Carroll-esque world.
FWIW
Jeff
It is a virtual impossibility to deal on a logical level with someone who exists in their own alternative reality. There is no logic in the implicit assertion that "Because I said it, it's right", and the follow-up logical bootstrapping that "since it's right, I don't have to provide factual support".
We have, for the past year, had revealing, instructive, and largely intelligent discussion, all with only our own personal sense of decorum keeping those discussions on a generrally civil level. We have done all this, dispite disparate views, varying politics and met in person and continued those discussions, sometimes over coffee, sometimes over stronger drink.
All of us have endeavored to excercise our freedom of speech without misrepresenting, misquoting, bullying or outright fallsifying. We have all been willing to rein ourselves in when we sometimes got a little too heated. All have been invited to participate without fear of recrimination or censorship.
We have all been witness to what has occrued over the past year. Our reality is of record. And no amount of shrill bombastic posturing can change the actual reality of the LO. Mr. Batdorf's creation of a vile threat ascribed to members of this panel is dangerous because the mere statement takes on a life of its own and I suspect that his "contributions" are calculated to be destructive of this forum, if not by creating allegations that take on a life of their own, then by sapping yuor time and efforts at dealing with and understanding his dark, Lewis Carroll-esque world.
FWIW
Jeff
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terry batdorf
Jeff,
I have come to accept the misrepresenting, misquoting, bullying or outright fallsifying from some of the members of this site. I believe in freedom of speech and freewill. I chose not to put money in the handles of advertisers of the Lakewood Observer as part of my own freewill. I have endured the hateful messages from Stan Austin and others and I refuse to back down from their attacks. If that makes me evil because I dont agree with you then so be it. This is still a free country and I will not be intimated by you, Stan, Jim or any others. Have a nice day!
God Bless America
I have come to accept the misrepresenting, misquoting, bullying or outright fallsifying from some of the members of this site. I believe in freedom of speech and freewill. I chose not to put money in the handles of advertisers of the Lakewood Observer as part of my own freewill. I have endured the hateful messages from Stan Austin and others and I refuse to back down from their attacks. If that makes me evil because I dont agree with you then so be it. This is still a free country and I will not be intimated by you, Stan, Jim or any others. Have a nice day!
God Bless America
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Grace O'Malley
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terry batdorf
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Jim O'Bryan
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- Contact:
terry batdorf wrote:Hey Jim,
You know nothing about me or my family so save your personal attacks. Stick and Stones!!!
Peace
Terry
I must be missing something here? Of course I know nothing about you and your family. I am not the authecation person. But I saw that DL posted you had been on TV twice, and thought you might be the same guy.
Sticks and stones, you have me mystified.
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Grace O'Malley
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:31 pm
You know, terry, I have a family friend who a Marine. Has a Silver Star and a Purple Heart for his service in Iraq.
He volunteered for service. He was in the first wave that went into Iraq.
He returned to Iraq to serve in Fallujah and was wounded when his vehicle hit a land mine. He pulled his fellow Marines from the burning wreckage, while he himself was injured. He had surgery and the day the stitches were removed he returned to Fallujah.
He's just 20 years old. Can't even order a beer.
He voted for Kerry.
He doesn't have time to post on chatboards.
He doesn't share your opinions.
You don't speak for all military men.
He volunteered for service. He was in the first wave that went into Iraq.
He returned to Iraq to serve in Fallujah and was wounded when his vehicle hit a land mine. He pulled his fellow Marines from the burning wreckage, while he himself was injured. He had surgery and the day the stitches were removed he returned to Fallujah.
He's just 20 years old. Can't even order a beer.
He voted for Kerry.
He doesn't have time to post on chatboards.
He doesn't share your opinions.
You don't speak for all military men.
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terry batdorf
Jim,
Terry
You ignorance knows no boundaries, everyone that knows Ken knows he believes in decency and respect.
It would seem that you are alone in not being able to handle free speech. But I would expect this. I came from a miltary family, I guess you did not. Respect was ingrained in our bones. You do not repsect the board or yourself and you are certainly disrespecting your country.
peace
.
_________________
Jim O'Bryan
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad. If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
--Dalai Lama
Terry
You ignorance knows no boundaries, everyone that knows Ken knows he believes in decency and respect.
It would seem that you are alone in not being able to handle free speech. But I would expect this. I came from a miltary family, I guess you did not. Respect was ingrained in our bones. You do not repsect the board or yourself and you are certainly disrespecting your country.
peace
.
_________________
Jim O'Bryan
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad. If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
--Dalai Lama
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Mike Deneen
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 12:02 pm
To paraphrase the Simpsons' comic book guy: "Worst boycott ever"
Let's take a look at the definition of boycott:
boycott
n : a group's refusal to have commercial dealings with some organization in protest against its policies v : refuse to sponsor; refuse to do business with [ant: patronize]
The first step to a successful boycott is to STOP USING THE PRODUCT!! Yes, that includes this board.
Let's take a look at the definition of boycott:
boycott
n : a group's refusal to have commercial dealings with some organization in protest against its policies v : refuse to sponsor; refuse to do business with [ant: patronize]
The first step to a successful boycott is to STOP USING THE PRODUCT!! Yes, that includes this board.
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Jeff Endress
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:13 am
- Location: Lakewood
as Terry stated
which in turn merely proves the point I was making previously:
Because, of course, a logical review of the thread will indicate to anyone not living through the looking glass, that it was only after Terry posted his knowingly false "bush haters" statement that anyone said anything....
No more responses needed....and trying to talk to Terry is a futile excercise. Not because there is disagreement, but because the excercise is akin to discussing the works of Mozart with P Diddy.
Jeff
and I will not be intimated by you, Stan, Jim or any others
which in turn merely proves the point I was making previously:
It is a virtual impossibility to deal on a logical level with someone who exists in their own alternative reality. There is no logic in the implicit assertion that "Because I said it, it's right", and the follow-up logical bootstrapping that "since it's right, I don't have to provide factual support
Because, of course, a logical review of the thread will indicate to anyone not living through the looking glass, that it was only after Terry posted his knowingly false "bush haters" statement that anyone said anything....
No more responses needed....and trying to talk to Terry is a futile excercise. Not because there is disagreement, but because the excercise is akin to discussing the works of Mozart with P Diddy.
Jeff
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Joseph Milan
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:45 pm
Kenneth Warren wrote:
I am saying that your explosive assertion linking an unspeakable crime to the people posting liberal opinions to LO deck is factually and morally wrong.
Your slanderous statement crossed a line. Own it, renounce it, or clarify it.
Kenneth Warren
Okay, Perhaps you can clarify something before demanding someone make their opinions heard, Mr. Warren.
People have gone out of their way to boycott conservatives they didn't like. They've gone after Limbaugh's advertisers, they've done the same with Dr Laura. The same is now happening with FOX News to a lesser degee. With Dr. Laura, if I recall correctly she recieved death threats for some time. But when the target is someone or something on the left, it's "slanderous", it "crossed a line".
Why is okay for someone to boycott right wing items but criminal to do the same for left wing items?
Joe
" it's all right to speak your mind, as long as I see your point of view"
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Jim O'Bryan
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Joe
The point is that only you and Mark have anything edited or deleted and that was by me by mistake. Terry came on and said we would delete or edit his posts, and it never happened. He attacked me and you by saying "Observers..." and you know there has never been a party line. I was happy to see your name pop up, I love it when voices from the right join in. There are no editing rules to the Deck. the paper merely follows the AP Style book for editing. To say anything else is wrong, very wrong.
do any of the Observer staff have or push an agenda? No. The Advisory Board rarely meets and rarely agrees. Political issues are never even brought up. the only time politics were talked about was when we decided we did not have a process in place to "back" candidates. We would rather put the info out and let people decide for themselves.
In your Kiwanis you have two Republicans that ran for office. Ask them how they were treated? I wish Terry would instead of confusing us with other boards. I will admit that most boards have a slant, usually towards whoever owns it. But I have fought that at every level.
But I do have my opinion, and I will express my opinion. I would never stop another member of the staff from expressing their opinion, or backing any candidate. That is the American way, that is the Observer way.
What I found odd is how a person blows in, challenges every aspect of the board an no one notices, all he has ever posted is flames. There is absolutely no substance in a single on of his posts. Do a search under his name. No one bit of substance, and nothing but untruths that have been proven throughout history.
Joe, you know I like you. I enjoted meeting you. Yet you and I almost never agree, but outside of that one accident, I have never edited you or stopped you from posting. If anything I have begged you to post, and I have always asked for the right to post. Matter of fact, every person I know on the right with the exception of Joan Roberts has been asked at one time or another to please stay and continue to post. Yet you all let Terry slam you and your hard work that came before.
Terry, you have been proven wrong at every turn especially with this thread. Anytime you want to apologize...
As for Ken Warren, there is no more open minded person in Lakewood.
But a little update, three times this week members from the right have tried to put pressure on this board in one way or another. All three would have been better served writing an article about something they believe in, instead of "veiled threats" at the residents of Lakewood. Recently one advertiser called to mention that another board stopped in to try to sign him up for advertising on another board, and pointed to the "Boycott" as a reason why. If this an OP, I do not really care, we have the support, and Lakewood knows that all the paper has ever tried to do is promote this city, without politics. Of course Terry, newby, who go on a baseless attack, and after posting in two threads, and after taking part in two threads calls for a boycott of the Observer. Laughable
.
The point is that only you and Mark have anything edited or deleted and that was by me by mistake. Terry came on and said we would delete or edit his posts, and it never happened. He attacked me and you by saying "Observers..." and you know there has never been a party line. I was happy to see your name pop up, I love it when voices from the right join in. There are no editing rules to the Deck. the paper merely follows the AP Style book for editing. To say anything else is wrong, very wrong.
do any of the Observer staff have or push an agenda? No. The Advisory Board rarely meets and rarely agrees. Political issues are never even brought up. the only time politics were talked about was when we decided we did not have a process in place to "back" candidates. We would rather put the info out and let people decide for themselves.
In your Kiwanis you have two Republicans that ran for office. Ask them how they were treated? I wish Terry would instead of confusing us with other boards. I will admit that most boards have a slant, usually towards whoever owns it. But I have fought that at every level.
But I do have my opinion, and I will express my opinion. I would never stop another member of the staff from expressing their opinion, or backing any candidate. That is the American way, that is the Observer way.
What I found odd is how a person blows in, challenges every aspect of the board an no one notices, all he has ever posted is flames. There is absolutely no substance in a single on of his posts. Do a search under his name. No one bit of substance, and nothing but untruths that have been proven throughout history.
Joe, you know I like you. I enjoted meeting you. Yet you and I almost never agree, but outside of that one accident, I have never edited you or stopped you from posting. If anything I have begged you to post, and I have always asked for the right to post. Matter of fact, every person I know on the right with the exception of Joan Roberts has been asked at one time or another to please stay and continue to post. Yet you all let Terry slam you and your hard work that came before.
Terry, you have been proven wrong at every turn especially with this thread. Anytime you want to apologize...
As for Ken Warren, there is no more open minded person in Lakewood.
But a little update, three times this week members from the right have tried to put pressure on this board in one way or another. All three would have been better served writing an article about something they believe in, instead of "veiled threats" at the residents of Lakewood. Recently one advertiser called to mention that another board stopped in to try to sign him up for advertising on another board, and pointed to the "Boycott" as a reason why. If this an OP, I do not really care, we have the support, and Lakewood knows that all the paper has ever tried to do is promote this city, without politics. Of course Terry, newby, who go on a baseless attack, and after posting in two threads, and after taking part in two threads calls for a boycott of the Observer. Laughable
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Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Radoslav Karabatkovic
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:47 pm
- Location: Lakewood, OH
- Contact:
Looks like someone's been missing all the debates between conservatives and liberals on this site thats been going on for the past year. I've had my debates with plenty of "conservatives" on this site, and they have been damn good debates.
I'm pretty sure the number of conservatives and liberals on this forum is 50/50, i still don't see how its slanted so far to the left as some claim.
it's a healthy thing to have debates, just as long as both sides stand firm on their beliefs.. but the point of debating in my eyes is opening others eyes to another point of view.
that kind of debating has been going on since this whole forum started, i cant understand why people still claim its so slanted.
and if it looks like im speaking the "party line", im not. I'm just a photographer, i just make the writers work look pretty.
I'm pretty sure the number of conservatives and liberals on this forum is 50/50, i still don't see how its slanted so far to the left as some claim.
it's a healthy thing to have debates, just as long as both sides stand firm on their beliefs.. but the point of debating in my eyes is opening others eyes to another point of view.
that kind of debating has been going on since this whole forum started, i cant understand why people still claim its so slanted.
and if it looks like im speaking the "party line", im not. I'm just a photographer, i just make the writers work look pretty.
"I know that the accident of me being a photographer has made my life possible."
"after all, I'm just the photographer that makes the writers work look pretty."-Ivor K
"after all, I'm just the photographer that makes the writers work look pretty."-Ivor K
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Jeff Endress
- Posts: 858
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:13 am
- Location: Lakewood
Joe
I think you missed the point of Ken Warren's post when you stated,
His post had nothing whatever to do with Terry's opinions, his hypocritical request to boycott LO advertisers (while he continues to use the LO forum which, apparently, doesn't fit into his boycott model). It was merely a reaction to the unhinged assertion made by Terry that equated anyone on this board with a liberal outlook with wackos who would advocate harming the President.
That assertion was an expression of fact, not of opinion.
Note...not "I believe you are like those people" or similar opinion. Rather, a statement of fact.
Jeff
I think you missed the point of Ken Warren's post when you stated,
Okay, Perhaps you can clarify something before demanding someone make their opinions heard, Mr. Warren.
His post had nothing whatever to do with Terry's opinions, his hypocritical request to boycott LO advertisers (while he continues to use the LO forum which, apparently, doesn't fit into his boycott model). It was merely a reaction to the unhinged assertion made by Terry that equated anyone on this board with a liberal outlook with wackos who would advocate harming the President.
That assertion was an expression of fact, not of opinion.
Those are your peers
Note...not "I believe you are like those people" or similar opinion. Rather, a statement of fact.
Jeff