How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
-
Melissa Page
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:05 pm
- Location: Robinwood Avenue
How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
This is the title of a study performed on Shaker Heights, Ohio after they went through a similar neighborhood school redistricting plan. Like Lakewood they were dealing with enrollment declines, financial hardship. This study was done in 1999 by William T. Bogart of the Department of Economics and Center for Regional Economic Issues, Case Western Reserve University and Brian Cromwell of PriceWaterhouseCoopers.
All of the below are excerpts from the study that can be found online at http://www-agecon.ag.ohio-state.edu/class/aede680/irwin/pdf/53.pdf.
“Shaker Heights is a city of 30,831 people U.S. Census of Population and
Housing, 1990 covering about seven square miles and located five miles
east of downtown Cleveland. One of the earliest planned communities in
the country, Shaker Heights was designed as a group of neighborhoods
each centered around an elementary school. The neighborhoods contain
a housing stock ranging from relatively modest homes in the south and
west, to larger houses in central Shaker, to mansions in the northern part
of the city. Although the community was designed to include and does
include a variety of socioeconomic groups, all students attend the same
high school and all elementary schools are held to the same high standards.”
“In 1984, a citizen’s committee advised the Shaker Heights City School
District to close three schools Moreland Elementary, Malvern Elemen-
tary, and Byron Junior High in order to save money and promote greater
racial balance. This proposal caused a great public outcry. In the end,
Woodbury Junior High was closed, with all of the other schools remaining
open. By 1987, enrollment in the district had fallen to 5013 and another set of
reforms was proposed. This time, four elementary schools Ludlow, More-
land, Malvern, and Sussex were targeted for closing leaving them with five
remaining elementary schools.”
“This paper has presented evidence on a familiar question, the relation
between local public schools and house prices. Our main result is that
disrupting neighborhood schools reduces house values by 9.9%, all else
being equal. We were also able to measure the value of providing trans-
portation services, something that has not to our knowledge been done
before. Instituting transportation services increases house values by 2.6%,
all else being equal.
The neighborhood schools effect is about $570 per year at a 10%
discount rate. To put this number in perspective, consider that the mean
school property tax rate for this period was about 60 mills, applied to an
assessed value of 35% of market value. At the mean house price of about
$58,000, this implies an annual property tax bill for schools of about $1200.
This neighborhood schools effect has an equivalent impact on house
values of a fully capitalized 47.5% increase in property taxes. This is a
substantial number, and one that indicates the importance of the way in
which public schools are provided as well as how they are financed.”
“One effect of redistricting may be that, by making it harder for parents
to get involved, it harms the quality of schools. It also makes it more
difficult for students to participate in after-school activities relative to the
case where they can walk to and from the school. We refer to this as the
‘‘ neighborhood schools effect’’ of redistricting. Because the neighborhood
schools effect reduces the quality of the schools, it leads us to expect
to find a negative relation between sales prices of houses and school
redistricting.”
(End of study excerpts)
I urge Lakewood Board of Education to not take Lakewood in this direction.
Please evaluate deeper and seriously what it takes to continue all remaining 3 schools. Give us different What If? Scenarios.
What If? We scale down on the “state-of-the-art” extras for now.
What If? we pick 2 for state funding matches and maintain the 3rd AS IS for a few years to take another look then.
New buildings and State-of-the-art technology isn’t going to put Lakewood in a better position if the housing values go down by 9.9%. You think you’re hurting for property taxes now? It’s been brought up before on the Deck, but you plan for less, you will get less. I see most of the BOE and Treasurer I know either went to smaller neighborhood Lakewood schools or/and raised their kids in them. Make sure your passing on to the next generation the very best position possible.
So much that is going on in this town all boils down to making sure we make smart decisions and not sell Lakewood short. Please visit this informative sight that talks about the importance of neighborhood schools.
http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/children.html
-Mel Page
This is the title of a study performed on Shaker Heights, Ohio after they went through a similar neighborhood school redistricting plan. Like Lakewood they were dealing with enrollment declines, financial hardship. This study was done in 1999 by William T. Bogart of the Department of Economics and Center for Regional Economic Issues, Case Western Reserve University and Brian Cromwell of PriceWaterhouseCoopers.
All of the below are excerpts from the study that can be found online at http://www-agecon.ag.ohio-state.edu/class/aede680/irwin/pdf/53.pdf.
“Shaker Heights is a city of 30,831 people U.S. Census of Population and
Housing, 1990 covering about seven square miles and located five miles
east of downtown Cleveland. One of the earliest planned communities in
the country, Shaker Heights was designed as a group of neighborhoods
each centered around an elementary school. The neighborhoods contain
a housing stock ranging from relatively modest homes in the south and
west, to larger houses in central Shaker, to mansions in the northern part
of the city. Although the community was designed to include and does
include a variety of socioeconomic groups, all students attend the same
high school and all elementary schools are held to the same high standards.”
“In 1984, a citizen’s committee advised the Shaker Heights City School
District to close three schools Moreland Elementary, Malvern Elemen-
tary, and Byron Junior High in order to save money and promote greater
racial balance. This proposal caused a great public outcry. In the end,
Woodbury Junior High was closed, with all of the other schools remaining
open. By 1987, enrollment in the district had fallen to 5013 and another set of
reforms was proposed. This time, four elementary schools Ludlow, More-
land, Malvern, and Sussex were targeted for closing leaving them with five
remaining elementary schools.”
“This paper has presented evidence on a familiar question, the relation
between local public schools and house prices. Our main result is that
disrupting neighborhood schools reduces house values by 9.9%, all else
being equal. We were also able to measure the value of providing trans-
portation services, something that has not to our knowledge been done
before. Instituting transportation services increases house values by 2.6%,
all else being equal.
The neighborhood schools effect is about $570 per year at a 10%
discount rate. To put this number in perspective, consider that the mean
school property tax rate for this period was about 60 mills, applied to an
assessed value of 35% of market value. At the mean house price of about
$58,000, this implies an annual property tax bill for schools of about $1200.
This neighborhood schools effect has an equivalent impact on house
values of a fully capitalized 47.5% increase in property taxes. This is a
substantial number, and one that indicates the importance of the way in
which public schools are provided as well as how they are financed.”
“One effect of redistricting may be that, by making it harder for parents
to get involved, it harms the quality of schools. It also makes it more
difficult for students to participate in after-school activities relative to the
case where they can walk to and from the school. We refer to this as the
‘‘ neighborhood schools effect’’ of redistricting. Because the neighborhood
schools effect reduces the quality of the schools, it leads us to expect
to find a negative relation between sales prices of houses and school
redistricting.”
(End of study excerpts)
I urge Lakewood Board of Education to not take Lakewood in this direction.
Please evaluate deeper and seriously what it takes to continue all remaining 3 schools. Give us different What If? Scenarios.
What If? We scale down on the “state-of-the-art” extras for now.
What If? we pick 2 for state funding matches and maintain the 3rd AS IS for a few years to take another look then.
New buildings and State-of-the-art technology isn’t going to put Lakewood in a better position if the housing values go down by 9.9%. You think you’re hurting for property taxes now? It’s been brought up before on the Deck, but you plan for less, you will get less. I see most of the BOE and Treasurer I know either went to smaller neighborhood Lakewood schools or/and raised their kids in them. Make sure your passing on to the next generation the very best position possible.
So much that is going on in this town all boils down to making sure we make smart decisions and not sell Lakewood short. Please visit this informative sight that talks about the importance of neighborhood schools.
http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org/children.html
-Mel Page
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Betsy Voinovich
- Posts: 1261
- Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:53 am
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Mel,
This is some really valuable research. A lot of us have been saying that it appeared that in choosing the wrong school scenario, the School Board would be driving families out of Lakewood, and make the school district look very unfriendly for families considering moving here, and isn't that the opposite of what we want? Especially with Lakewood receiving an Excellent school rating, and being chosen by Business Week as a great place to raise your family.
One of the newly drawn elementary school maps breaks almost every neighborhood in half, and sends kids right on out of their neighborhoods and away from families and children they've spent their lives with, all to send kids north, because there are not enough kids up there to keep a school there in a six school configuration, without forcing kids south of Detroit to leave their neighborhoods to fill that school. The little kids, the kindergartners, first, second, third, fourth, fifth. No more neighborhood school in the middle of your neighborhood. Not safe, not fun, not smart.
It would be great if the School Board came up with some other "What if" scenarios.
Thanks for finding and posting this info. It's great to be able to put a numerical figure on the damage. The State of Ohio should have a copy of this in its OSFC folder. The Lakewood City Planning Department could use one too.
Betsy Voinovich
This is some really valuable research. A lot of us have been saying that it appeared that in choosing the wrong school scenario, the School Board would be driving families out of Lakewood, and make the school district look very unfriendly for families considering moving here, and isn't that the opposite of what we want? Especially with Lakewood receiving an Excellent school rating, and being chosen by Business Week as a great place to raise your family.
One of the newly drawn elementary school maps breaks almost every neighborhood in half, and sends kids right on out of their neighborhoods and away from families and children they've spent their lives with, all to send kids north, because there are not enough kids up there to keep a school there in a six school configuration, without forcing kids south of Detroit to leave their neighborhoods to fill that school. The little kids, the kindergartners, first, second, third, fourth, fifth. No more neighborhood school in the middle of your neighborhood. Not safe, not fun, not smart.
It would be great if the School Board came up with some other "What if" scenarios.
Thanks for finding and posting this info. It's great to be able to put a numerical figure on the damage. The State of Ohio should have a copy of this in its OSFC folder. The Lakewood City Planning Department could use one too.
Betsy Voinovich
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Corey Rossen
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:09 pm
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Can the Board of Education, please, set up a date to determine the final answer of what school stays/goes so we can end the bickering between schools and get on with the education system?
If the BOE needs a date, I pick February 5th. Just because.
Corey
If the BOE needs a date, I pick February 5th. Just because.
Corey
Corey Rossen
"I have neither aligned myself with SLH, nor BL." ~ Jim O'Bryan
"I am not neutral." ~Jim O'Bryan
"I am not here to stir up anything." ~Jim O'Bryan
"I have neither aligned myself with SLH, nor BL." ~ Jim O'Bryan
"I am not neutral." ~Jim O'Bryan
"I am not here to stir up anything." ~Jim O'Bryan
- Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Corey
I see no decision coming until after the election.
The actual decision by many, not all, of the board was probably made over two years ago,
and will disenfranchise too many voters.
Better to play dumb and keep quiet, than to be honest, transparent and forth coming.
Sadly it is quickly becoming the Lakewood Way.
.
I see no decision coming until after the election.
The actual decision by many, not all, of the board was probably made over two years ago,
and will disenfranchise too many voters.
Better to play dumb and keep quiet, than to be honest, transparent and forth coming.
Sadly it is quickly becoming the Lakewood Way.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
Rhonda loje
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:08 pm
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Mr. Markling,
Is it true this decision will not be made until after the election?
Your answer will decide how I am going to vote.
You must be aware that many voters are skeptical about their government institutions.
This is the time to very, very transparent.
The electorate is very aware and informed.
Is it true this decision will not be made until after the election?
Your answer will decide how I am going to vote.
You must be aware that many voters are skeptical about their government institutions.
This is the time to very, very transparent.
The electorate is very aware and informed.
"Dont it always seem to go
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"
Joni Mitchell
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"
Joni Mitchell
- Ryan Salo
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:11 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Corey Rossen wrote:Can the Board of Education, please, set up a date to determine the final answer of what school stays/goes so we can end the bickering between schools and get on with the education system?
If the BOE needs a date, I pick February 5th. Just because.
Corey
If only their decision changed anything. We are not getting the state money this year, and we may never get it, the levy may fail and force the closing of a school anyway. Heck, even if the levy passes we may have to close a school just to stay a float. The board decision at this point is premature, there are so many other variables that will decide how the school system looks 36 months from now. I think they should be more focused on trying to decide how many teachers are getting RIF'd before and potentially after the levy. They need to create a backup plan in case the bond & levy fail and if we don't get the state funds.
The school building decision may seem important but it doesn't actually DO anything right now. If this levy fails, what is the likelihood of the bond passing?
Rhonde,
So you are going to decide whether more teachers have to get fired and whether kids classroom sizes have to double based on the school building decision? Lets not lose site of what is most important.
Ryan Salo
- Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Ryan Salo wrote:Corey Rossen wrote:Can the Board of Education, please, set up a date to determine the final answer of what school stays/goes so we can end the bickering between schools and get on with the education system?
If the BOE needs a date, I pick February 5th. Just because.
Corey
If only their decision changed anything. We are not getting the state money this year, and we may never get it, the levy may fail and force the closing of a school anyway. Heck, even if the levy passes we may have to close a school just to stay a float. The board decision at this point is premature, there are so many other variables that will decide how the school system looks 36 months from now. I think they should be more focused on trying to decide how many teachers are getting RIF'd before and potentially after the levy. They need to create a backup plan in case the bond & levy fail and if we don't get the state funds.
The school building decision may seem important but it doesn't actually DO anything right now. If this levy fails, what is the likelihood of the bond passing?
Rhonde,
So you are going to decide whether more teachers have to get fired and whether kids classroom sizes have to double based on the school building decision? Lets not lose site of what is most important.
Ryan
Well said.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
Danielle Masters
- Posts: 1139
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:39 am
- Location: Lakewood, OH
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Right now the board should be focused on getting the levy passed because that is what directly affects the kids. I know that most of us that support the schools will vote for the levy no matter what the ultimate decision is on the 6th school but why make that risk right now when this levy is so important? The decision can wait, they need to focus on making sure that more cuts that will have a negative impact on the classrooms don't happen. I don't expect any answers until after May because that just makes political sense.
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Rhonda loje
- Posts: 647
- Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:08 pm
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Guys,
I have no dog in this fight...I just need to be convinced.
I don't have any kids in the school system.
I have no information on why I should vote for a levy.
I have not been part of any the process of which school to close.
The only question I have asked is why the schools that have been closed are not sold or being marketed. That question was adequately answered by Mr. Marking.
The only point I have is that the transparency of the process reflects on the institution.
Convince me! I'm open!
I have no dog in this fight...I just need to be convinced.
I don't have any kids in the school system.
I have no information on why I should vote for a levy.
I have not been part of any the process of which school to close.
The only question I have asked is why the schools that have been closed are not sold or being marketed. That question was adequately answered by Mr. Marking.
The only point I have is that the transparency of the process reflects on the institution.
Convince me! I'm open!
"Dont it always seem to go
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"
Joni Mitchell
That you dont know what youve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot"
Joni Mitchell
-
Kristine Pagsuyoin
- Posts: 339
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:28 am
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Rhonda,
You're right. They told us at Phase III that we needed the schools (Taft, McKinley, Franklin) for transition. But, if you believe the rumors they would rather get a school that is occupied "sold". As you know, I worked on Phase III. I chose to believe there wasn't a decision made and that the committee wasn't a waste of time. Some details have come to light this week and I no longer believe that. I don't believe ALL of the BOE members and treasurer had a pre-determined plan...but I think 3 of that bunch did.
Here is my prediction, they will close a school by the end of this school year that will not open in Fall of 2010. No matter what the BOE states publicly, I believe, this was the plan all along. They will say this is necessary due to the economic crisis we are facing. We know there will be a reduction is force for the 2010-2011 school year...this will help the cuts.
They may give us their decision about which school will be closed permanently, not sure if they will or not before the levy. They should. They should feel a sense of obligation, again not sure. Don't think the school that closes this fall will necessarily be the one that is closed permanently.
There is no money available from the State. At the joint BOE and City Council meeting on Monday, Rick Berdine (treasurer) stated that OSFC could fund districts with construction projects through number 410 (there is a list of schools waiting for funds). We are number 420. That is IF the State doesn't run out of money. It will be awhile--and I am not sure if I could support a Bond that asks us to pay more to help out people who may not have the best interest of our kids or city in their hearts.
Phase III was "packaged" to include finishing 1/2 the high school and 2/3 elementary schools. The District packaged Phase III like this to motivate citizens to vote for a bond. I'd like to know...if we can't get State money what we will do with 1/2 of an unfinished high school.
We asked the BOE at the 1st January meeting if there would be more open meetings regarding Phase III that the public could sit in on. Guess what? Not yet.
I want to support a levy for the kids. By they way, there is no Plan B if the levy fails. The numbers that are using to forecast for the next 2 years are Best Case Scenario numbers and over million dollars in cuts. And, in this Best Case Scenario we have to pass a levy this May and ANOTHER in 3 years. The levy in May is less for that what we really need.
Kristine
You're right. They told us at Phase III that we needed the schools (Taft, McKinley, Franklin) for transition. But, if you believe the rumors they would rather get a school that is occupied "sold". As you know, I worked on Phase III. I chose to believe there wasn't a decision made and that the committee wasn't a waste of time. Some details have come to light this week and I no longer believe that. I don't believe ALL of the BOE members and treasurer had a pre-determined plan...but I think 3 of that bunch did.
Here is my prediction, they will close a school by the end of this school year that will not open in Fall of 2010. No matter what the BOE states publicly, I believe, this was the plan all along. They will say this is necessary due to the economic crisis we are facing. We know there will be a reduction is force for the 2010-2011 school year...this will help the cuts.
They may give us their decision about which school will be closed permanently, not sure if they will or not before the levy. They should. They should feel a sense of obligation, again not sure. Don't think the school that closes this fall will necessarily be the one that is closed permanently.
There is no money available from the State. At the joint BOE and City Council meeting on Monday, Rick Berdine (treasurer) stated that OSFC could fund districts with construction projects through number 410 (there is a list of schools waiting for funds). We are number 420. That is IF the State doesn't run out of money. It will be awhile--and I am not sure if I could support a Bond that asks us to pay more to help out people who may not have the best interest of our kids or city in their hearts.
Phase III was "packaged" to include finishing 1/2 the high school and 2/3 elementary schools. The District packaged Phase III like this to motivate citizens to vote for a bond. I'd like to know...if we can't get State money what we will do with 1/2 of an unfinished high school.
We asked the BOE at the 1st January meeting if there would be more open meetings regarding Phase III that the public could sit in on. Guess what? Not yet.
I want to support a levy for the kids. By they way, there is no Plan B if the levy fails. The numbers that are using to forecast for the next 2 years are Best Case Scenario numbers and over million dollars in cuts. And, in this Best Case Scenario we have to pass a levy this May and ANOTHER in 3 years. The levy in May is less for that what we really need.
Kristine
-
Grace O'Malley
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:31 pm
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
When I see these dire reports of how much the schools need just to maintain what they have, I must return to the question of why they did not apply for the stimulus funds.
Mr Markling did attempt to explain the decision but that just raised more questions. Lakewood "didn't need" the money? Oh, I guess Beachwood and Hudson and Avon Lake needed it more than we did?
I give Lakewood a lot of credit for their performance under the stress of the demographics we have here, but darn it, thinking that we're as good as some of the top performing schools is downright delusional. We certainly could have used that money and we should have applied for it.
Mr Markling did attempt to explain the decision but that just raised more questions. Lakewood "didn't need" the money? Oh, I guess Beachwood and Hudson and Avon Lake needed it more than we did?
I give Lakewood a lot of credit for their performance under the stress of the demographics we have here, but darn it, thinking that we're as good as some of the top performing schools is downright delusional. We certainly could have used that money and we should have applied for it.
-
Melissa Page
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:05 pm
- Location: Robinwood Avenue
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
On the May levy campaign I plan to do my part to help with the "Mine + Nine" and the Coffee Meetings that I saw first hand get the last bond issue passed. The other very important part to the bond issue passing was being clear and honest with our campaign message. And we meant every word of it. But that was an easier economic time.
At that time even my husband and I were going through glorious thoughts of "moving up" within Lakewood. Most all of us were riding the wave of spending more money because we couldn't fathom it not continuing as is. My hubby had a great Ernst & Young job. We had it made.
The bubble bursted. He was let go. The last 2 years have been very eye opening for us. We are staying put in our current wonderful home, in our family friendly neighborhood that has become our 2nd family. I am so happy right here in middle Lakewood. We (one of us more than another) thought more was more. We are happier than we've ever been making do with less. Being more resourceful, reciprocating help with friends, family, and neighbors. Our street changed elementary schools when Franklin closed, now with the new maps our school could change again.
This is so wrong for so many reasons that mean something to me. But as far as the "bottom line" when it comes to finances...
Less can be more.
I had been asking the question here and there over the last year about keeping all 3 schools open. And i asked this to some older, civic minded people I consider wiser than me. My question was easily dismissed with some answer that made it so matter of fact that 3 is not an option. Maybe I should have followed my instinct then and devoted time to the Phase III, but i didn't. Doesn't matter. We continue to get new information and learn more every step of the way in this process. I've learned that I am more certain more than before that we must find a way to go forward with 7 elementary schools. (Though if we could find the way, eventually, I like the Kaufmann School idea more and more too.)
Something else I found within the very resourceful, forward thinking website http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org%20are%20links%20to%20National%20Trust%20for%20Historic%20Preservation.
(Or go directly to NTFHP at http://www.preservationnation.org/issues/historic-schools/.
Lots of great info which proves that the former suburban sprawl movement that led to building new over renovating, abandoning existing neighborhood sites for the edge of town, and using the Walmart model is on the way out. But unfortunately, the written guidelines, policies, and experience of the architects is still going by what they have known for the last 50 years. Here is the introduction to an eye-opening 5 page PDF document titled "Historic Schools: Renovation vs. Replacement & The Role of a Feasibility Study". Nat'l Trust for Prehistoric Preservation even has a grant program that gives money to conduct feasibility studies. This document gives the questions to ask and the things to look out for.
"Weighing the pros and cons of renovating a historic neighborhood school or
building a new one takes preservation “know-how,” experience and creativity. As
school districts face the challenge of trying to satisfy educational programmatic
requirements, the latest trends in teaching methods and integrating new technology,
the historic neighborhood school is not always given full consideration. Prevailing
assumptions that a newer school will result in a better education or perceptions that
historic school buildings have unfixable flaws also place historic neighborhood
schools at risk. The potential for renovation is routinely dismissed without full
consideration of the facts and long-term implications.
"Potential problems persist including feasibility studies of historic schools conducted
by inexperienced architects, inflated and exaggerated cost estimates for renovation,
limited or no community input, a bias against historic, hidden costs not accounted
for, and minimal consideration for impacts to a community.
A biased or incomplete feasibility study will not fully inform the general public or
school district about all options. The below feasibility study checklist can help
identify the factors involved in making the best decision and assuring that a
feasibility study for your historic neighborhood school is fair, objective and
reasonable. It will also assist in identifying “warning signs,” questions to ask, and
knowing what to look for when challenging the results and projected cost estimates
of a feasibility study."
We appear to have valuable resources from organizations such as the above 2 to help us find the best solution for the needs of Lakewood. I don't believe we are done doing our homework. We shouldn't be able to go to recess or be put to bed until our homework is complete. Because the teacher knows when you've just copied someone else's work or were lazy to do it completely and thoroughly.
I just got my Kindergarten's report card. His teacher is the best. And she doesn't mess around. Grades are given for:
Achievement: Exceeds, Meets, Progressing, or Insufficient.
Effort on following directions, participates, completes class work, completes Homework with: Outstanding, Good, Satisfactory, Minimal.
I can't help but make sure we all are held to these expectations. My vindication is unlikely to go away. Again, let's start talking What If?'s.
For example, in order to keep all 3 open, what if we scale down the size of and/or renovate Lincoln to a smaller size that meets the needs of that neighborhood. Public and Phase III have been told we will need to build a new Lincoln and that it will cost $15 million to do that. Kind of like me telling my kid that "Yes Santa is real" and why is because "It is magic". End of discussion and we move on. This answer is too general. More info please. More What If's please.
My last note, many leaders rave about the intelligence and participation of the civic minded residents of Lakewood that make their job easier. Where as some want to move on with this topic many want to dive in deeper to get all the facts and figures before a decision is made. I'm one that would find time to help you do that.
Is there anything I can do to help?
At that time even my husband and I were going through glorious thoughts of "moving up" within Lakewood. Most all of us were riding the wave of spending more money because we couldn't fathom it not continuing as is. My hubby had a great Ernst & Young job. We had it made.
The bubble bursted. He was let go. The last 2 years have been very eye opening for us. We are staying put in our current wonderful home, in our family friendly neighborhood that has become our 2nd family. I am so happy right here in middle Lakewood. We (one of us more than another) thought more was more. We are happier than we've ever been making do with less. Being more resourceful, reciprocating help with friends, family, and neighbors. Our street changed elementary schools when Franklin closed, now with the new maps our school could change again.
This is so wrong for so many reasons that mean something to me. But as far as the "bottom line" when it comes to finances...
Less can be more.
I had been asking the question here and there over the last year about keeping all 3 schools open. And i asked this to some older, civic minded people I consider wiser than me. My question was easily dismissed with some answer that made it so matter of fact that 3 is not an option. Maybe I should have followed my instinct then and devoted time to the Phase III, but i didn't. Doesn't matter. We continue to get new information and learn more every step of the way in this process. I've learned that I am more certain more than before that we must find a way to go forward with 7 elementary schools. (Though if we could find the way, eventually, I like the Kaufmann School idea more and more too.)
Something else I found within the very resourceful, forward thinking website http://www.smartgrowthamerica.org%20are%20links%20to%20National%20Trust%20for%20Historic%20Preservation.
(Or go directly to NTFHP at http://www.preservationnation.org/issues/historic-schools/.
Lots of great info which proves that the former suburban sprawl movement that led to building new over renovating, abandoning existing neighborhood sites for the edge of town, and using the Walmart model is on the way out. But unfortunately, the written guidelines, policies, and experience of the architects is still going by what they have known for the last 50 years. Here is the introduction to an eye-opening 5 page PDF document titled "Historic Schools: Renovation vs. Replacement & The Role of a Feasibility Study". Nat'l Trust for Prehistoric Preservation even has a grant program that gives money to conduct feasibility studies. This document gives the questions to ask and the things to look out for.
"Weighing the pros and cons of renovating a historic neighborhood school or
building a new one takes preservation “know-how,” experience and creativity. As
school districts face the challenge of trying to satisfy educational programmatic
requirements, the latest trends in teaching methods and integrating new technology,
the historic neighborhood school is not always given full consideration. Prevailing
assumptions that a newer school will result in a better education or perceptions that
historic school buildings have unfixable flaws also place historic neighborhood
schools at risk. The potential for renovation is routinely dismissed without full
consideration of the facts and long-term implications.
"Potential problems persist including feasibility studies of historic schools conducted
by inexperienced architects, inflated and exaggerated cost estimates for renovation,
limited or no community input, a bias against historic, hidden costs not accounted
for, and minimal consideration for impacts to a community.
A biased or incomplete feasibility study will not fully inform the general public or
school district about all options. The below feasibility study checklist can help
identify the factors involved in making the best decision and assuring that a
feasibility study for your historic neighborhood school is fair, objective and
reasonable. It will also assist in identifying “warning signs,” questions to ask, and
knowing what to look for when challenging the results and projected cost estimates
of a feasibility study."
We appear to have valuable resources from organizations such as the above 2 to help us find the best solution for the needs of Lakewood. I don't believe we are done doing our homework. We shouldn't be able to go to recess or be put to bed until our homework is complete. Because the teacher knows when you've just copied someone else's work or were lazy to do it completely and thoroughly.
I just got my Kindergarten's report card. His teacher is the best. And she doesn't mess around. Grades are given for:
Achievement: Exceeds, Meets, Progressing, or Insufficient.
Effort on following directions, participates, completes class work, completes Homework with: Outstanding, Good, Satisfactory, Minimal.
I can't help but make sure we all are held to these expectations. My vindication is unlikely to go away. Again, let's start talking What If?'s.
For example, in order to keep all 3 open, what if we scale down the size of and/or renovate Lincoln to a smaller size that meets the needs of that neighborhood. Public and Phase III have been told we will need to build a new Lincoln and that it will cost $15 million to do that. Kind of like me telling my kid that "Yes Santa is real" and why is because "It is magic". End of discussion and we move on. This answer is too general. More info please. More What If's please.
My last note, many leaders rave about the intelligence and participation of the civic minded residents of Lakewood that make their job easier. Where as some want to move on with this topic many want to dive in deeper to get all the facts and figures before a decision is made. I'm one that would find time to help you do that.
Is there anything I can do to help?
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Melissa Page
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:05 pm
- Location: Robinwood Avenue
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
This is one of about 100 news items in the Smart Growth Org. website that shows many Ohioan's (elected, nonprofit officials, residents) are recognizing the damage the last 50 years of suburban sprawl has costed us all. This is from 2004 from our local Cleveland Restoration Society on Cleveland City Schools plan to rebuild new schools over renovating many of its schools. Lakewood is also following outdated guidelines that will soon be updated to show that following the old guidelines like the 2/3rd rule for rebuild over renovating existing school. The remaining elementary schools are estimated to cost $15million to rebuild each new. Our Board of Ed. seem to be certain they must move forward on their plan to close a school and rebuild 2. I just keep finding all this good info and resources out there though. I'll bet our school board did not seek out assistance from Lakewood Historical Society, Cleveland Restoration Society, or Nat'l Trust for Historic Preservation.
http://www.smartgrowth.org/news/bystate.asp?state=oh&res=1440
Cleveland Could Save $66 Million By Renovating, Not Replacing, Historic Schools
Under its 2002 Master Plan, the Cleveland Municipal School District wants to demolish and replace 23 schools eligible for the National Register of Historic Places, even though their rehabilitation would save the Ohio School Facilities Commission (OSFC) more than $66 million, while providing up to 1,900 more local jobs, writes Cleveland Restoration Society executive director Kathleen H. Crowther in a Plain Dealer column entitled, ''Scrapping old schools is an expensive mistake.''
She illustrates the mistake with John Hay High School in the Murray Hill neighborhood, whose rehabilitation and mandatory asbestos removal costs would be $31.6 million, versus $36.6 million for demolition, asbestos abatement and new construction. ''The rehabilitation of well-built, older schools typically offers the best economic alternative,'' she stresses, noting that as with all older buildings, ''the mechanical and electrical system can be replaced and state-of-the-art methodology installed.''
The reason for ''throwing away our legacy of historic schools'' is OSFC's ''two-thirds'' guideline, according to which the districts should replace old schools if their rehabilitation may cost 67 percent more than construction. This guideline reflects the throw-away attitudes of the 1950s, she writes, pointing out that this year ''the Council of Educational Facility Planners International will abandon its old standards, also rooted in that era, and publish new guidelines for school construction that acknowledge the potential of older and historic schools.''
Crowther urges OSFC to ''discard its outmoded policies and enter today's age of sustainability.'' -- Plain Dealer 7/1/2004
http://www.smartgrowth.org/news/bystate.asp?state=oh&res=1440
Cleveland Could Save $66 Million By Renovating, Not Replacing, Historic Schools
Under its 2002 Master Plan, the Cleveland Municipal School District wants to demolish and replace 23 schools eligible for the National Register of Historic Places, even though their rehabilitation would save the Ohio School Facilities Commission (OSFC) more than $66 million, while providing up to 1,900 more local jobs, writes Cleveland Restoration Society executive director Kathleen H. Crowther in a Plain Dealer column entitled, ''Scrapping old schools is an expensive mistake.''
She illustrates the mistake with John Hay High School in the Murray Hill neighborhood, whose rehabilitation and mandatory asbestos removal costs would be $31.6 million, versus $36.6 million for demolition, asbestos abatement and new construction. ''The rehabilitation of well-built, older schools typically offers the best economic alternative,'' she stresses, noting that as with all older buildings, ''the mechanical and electrical system can be replaced and state-of-the-art methodology installed.''
The reason for ''throwing away our legacy of historic schools'' is OSFC's ''two-thirds'' guideline, according to which the districts should replace old schools if their rehabilitation may cost 67 percent more than construction. This guideline reflects the throw-away attitudes of the 1950s, she writes, pointing out that this year ''the Council of Educational Facility Planners International will abandon its old standards, also rooted in that era, and publish new guidelines for school construction that acknowledge the potential of older and historic schools.''
Crowther urges OSFC to ''discard its outmoded policies and enter today's age of sustainability.'' -- Plain Dealer 7/1/2004
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Stan Austin
- Contributor
- Posts: 2465
- Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:02 pm
- Contact:
Re: How Much Is a Neighborhood School Worth?
Mel--- before I read all the stuff that you posted I just have to say that you are an exemplary example of a very serious and hard working citizen/neighbor.
Stan
Stan