Lakewood's Lost Or Endangered Treasures

[Gary Rice]

As I was driving along Detroit Avenue today, I noticed that the former Lakewood Christian Church building was being demolished just two days before Christmas.

(The congregation for that assembly still meets at 10:45 a.m. on Sundays, at the Cove United Methodist Church facility)

This demolition activity caused me to reflect on other Lakewood treasures, either recently lost or endangered.

Here's a short photoblog about some of those treasures. Just click here:

http://lakewoodobserver.com/photoblogs/ ... -treasures

On a positive note, we are seeing some new activities around town,

but.....

back to the banjo...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Gary


I agree.

I must have stumbled past right after you.

I had the captions just a little different.



Lakewoodites gets ready to celebrate the birth of the baby Jesus...




...





...





... just not in Lakewood I guess!


Shop local, worship local.


Just say no to Mega-Churches.


peace





.

[Gary Rice]

Jim,

Glad (I guess) that I perhaps inspired you.

Great photos, by the way in this and your other threads.

You have the gift.

There are lots of conjectural reasons that could be discussed as to why these churches have encountered difficulties, while other churches, mostly in the outer suburbs, are flourishing.

But those discussions are like spinning wheels in soft mud....going nowhere fast.

The fact remains that a number of the Lakewood churches are indeed going, going, gone.

I was told, by the way, that the percentage of Lakewoodites regularly attending church is pitifully small.

How this demographic apparently changed in the span of a generation amazes me to no end.

As for mega-churches though, I don't see how they can be directly blamed for the problems of other older churches. If they're doing something well, then there are simply lessons to be learned from them.

The only question, at least to me, would simply be this:

How many around Lakewood are listening?

To be fair, a number of Lakewood churches are indeed trying innovative and inclusive programs to entice new members into their folds.

Back to the banjo...

[Stephen Eisel]

Times they are a changing... There are less and less people calling themselves Christians in the US.

[Stephen Eisel]

How this demographic apparently changed in the span of a generation amazes me to no end.

It is amazing. Is there less religion or more diversity? From my own personal experience, there is more religous diversity (among my friends) today then when I was a kid.

[Shelley Hurd]

I spoke with the guys invovled with tearing down the church and the houses. One of the yong men was working in the houses to remove the plaster before demolition. He said that the plaster was asbestos based and the danger would be great to people in the area if it were to be knocked down with the plaster still intact. The fine powdery asbestos laiden dust could slowly kill, over years and decades, those who live and travel through the area.

I asked if he was removing the asbestos from within the church. He said no, just from the houses.

Heres my concern. I watched and filmed the demolition of the church over the course of many days. I saw one small hose, barely bigger then a home garden hose sprinkling out a small stream of water on a very small area of the site. Dust was evident and visibly wafting and perminating the area.

Today when I stoped in at Duncan Dounuts for a coffee, the was no hose at all as the crains pushed, hoisted and dumped that asbestos laiden debrie about the construction site.


How much asbestos filled that dust and debrie? How much asbestos is still blowing about that area and exposing residents and passers-by to a slow and very horrible death? How much asbestos will kids walking past there to school be dragging into school to expose even more kids?

Maybe Kevin Butler could look into that. It is not a knocked over trash can. But maybe the folks he "represents" would benifit from the knowledge of just how much asbestos they are being exposed to.

I will hold my breath as I get my coffee tomorrow morning. But I wont be holding my breath waiting for Mr. Butler to look into how much asbestos is blowing through the area.

[Stephen Eisel]

This may be incorrect... but I took a stab at it...

http://www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/27/atu/ ... t_form.pdf

INSTRUCTIONS FOR
NOTIFICATION OF ASBESTOS DEMOLITION AND RENOVATION
OHIO ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
Regulatory Requirements:
The Ohio Environmental Protection
Agency adopted Chapter 3745-20 of the
Ohio Administrative Code (OAC)
“Asbestos Emission Control from
Renovation Demolition and Waste
Disposal Operation” May 29, 1990.
Chapter 3745-20 implements
the National Emission Standard for
Hazardous Air Pollutants (NESHAP)
Standard for Asbestos. On November 20,
1990 U.S. EPA revised the asbestos
NESHAP. Proper completion and submittal
of the Ohio EPA form for notification,
meets or exceeds all requirements for
notification under the NESHAP and the
Ohio Administrative Code. Notification
requirements are found in OAC
3745-20-03 and in 40 CFR Section
61.145(b).

http://www.odh.ohio.gov/odhprograms/dsp ... aqhaz.aspx

Does Ohio have any special rules governing procedures for removal, renovation, enclosure, repair or encapsulation of asbestos-containing materials?
Currently, the Ohio Department of Health only requires contractors to conduct each project in compliance with the decontamination procedures, project containment procedures and asbestos fiber containment methods established by regulations of the United States Environmental Protection Agency (U.S. EPA), 40 C.F.R. Part 61, Subpart M, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), 29 C.F.R. Section 1926.1101 for business entities, or by regulations of the U.S. EPA, 40 C.F.R. Part 763, Subpart G for public entities.

http://www.slocleanair.org/business/pdf/40cfr61m.pdf

61.150 Standard for waste disposal for manufacturing, fabricating,
demolition, renovation, and spraying operations.
Each owner or operator of any source covered under the provisions of 61.144, 61.145,
61.146, and 61.147 shall comply with the following provisions:
(a) Discharge no visible emissions to the outside air during the collection, processing
(including incineration), packaging, or transporting of any asbestos-containing
waste material generated by the source, or use one of the emission control and
waste treatment methods specified in paragraphs (a) (1) through (4) of this
section.
(1) Adequately wet asbestos-containing waste material as follows:
(i) Mix control device asbestos waste to form a slurry; adequately wet
other asbestos-containing waste material; and
(ii) Discharge no visible emissions to the outside air from collection,
mixing, wetting, and handling operations, or use the methods
specified by 61.152 to clean emissions containing particulate
asbestos material before they escape to, or are vented to, the
outside air; and
(iii) After wetting, seal all asbestos-containing waste material in leaktight
containers while wet; or, for materials that will not fit into
containers without additional breaking, put materials into leak-tight
wrapping; and
(iv) Label the containers or wrapped materials specified in paragraph
(a)(1)(iii) of this section using warning labels specified by
Occupational Safety and Health Standards of the Department of
Labor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA)
under 29 CFR 1910.1001 (j)(2) or 1926.58 (k)(2)(iii). The labels
shall be printed in letters of sufficient size and contrast so as to be
readily visible and legible.
(v) For asbestos-containing waste material to be transported off the
facility site, label containers or wrapped materials with the name of
the waste generator and the location at which the waste was
generated.

[Jim DeVito]

Shelley, you should really call the EPA(?) if you are convinced there is Asbestos. It is very dangerous and should only be removed by properly trained licensed workers, not some kid cutting down plaster. As Stephen pointed out there are very specific guidelines for the abatement of Asbestos. And if you truly believe they are not being followed you need to get the authorities involved.

[Bob Mehosky]

Shelley, you should really call the EPA(?) if you are convinced there is Asbestos. It is very dangerous and should only be removed by properly trained licensed workers, not some kid cutting down plaster. As Stephen pointed out there are very specific guidelines for the abatement of Asbestos. And if you truly believe they are not being followed you need to get the authorities involved.

Asbestos is dangerous if you breathe it in daily for 30 years.

In the amounts we're talking here? It's nothing more than fodder for ambulance chasers.

You'll make yourself less healthy by worrying about it than you would if you stood in the cloud of dust for a day.

[Kevin Butler]

Both the fire marshal and the chief commercial building inspector have noted that the asbestos was abated from the inside prior to demolition, all under strict EPA standards. An EPA inspector went through the building after abatement and signed off. The hose observed onsite is to keep brick dust down, not abate asbestos. Hope that information helps.

[Shelley Hurd]

Bob Mehosky
Asbestos is dangerous if you breathe it in daily for 30 years.

In the amounts we're talking here? It's nothing more than fodder for ambulance chasers.

You'll make yourself less healthy by worrying about it than you would if you stood in the cloud of dust for a day.

Bob,

If what you say is true...then why was money wasted to remove the plaster in the houses that were tore down?

[Shelley Hurd]

Both the fire marshal and the chief commercial building inspector have noted that the asbestos was abated from the inside prior to demolition, all under strict EPA standards. An EPA inspector went through the building after abatement and signed off. The hose observed onsite is to keep brick dust down, not abate asbestos. Hope that information helps.

Thank you Kevin.

Puts a mind to ease hearing that the site is safe. And that the mortar contained no asbestos and that all of it was removed from inside prior to demolition.

[Jim O'Bryan]

You'll make yourself less healthy by worrying about it than you would if you stood in the cloud of dust for a day.

Bob

I would have to say you nailed this one. After the asbestos scare subsided it was discovered that generally it was better to paint over than remove.

To my knowledge, the only people to ever get asbestosis were people in the business and
their wives who dealt with cleaning their clothes.


Gary

There are so many things worth commenting on in your last post who knows where to
begin. Let me just say that 1 suburban meg-churches are having an effect on inner ring
suburbs like Lakewood. One thing I have heard from more than one civic leader who has
drifted away to suburban mega-churches, "It is a good thing for the career..." So many
have forgotten that Jesus died on the cross because he overturned the money changers
tables in the houses of worship.

Then there is th study Ken and I were doing about raiding inner-ring churches, and setting
them up for failure, for a variety of reason.

More later...

Stephen

"Spirituality" has taken a toll, as have the "me" generations need to find what they need.
There used to be a time when everlasting life in heaven was enough, not with the "ME"
crowd, now there is the need for more. Need it now, right now. Hence Gary's comment
about the churches trying different things. Many have given up on the sin and go to hell
message, and practice the religion of Joel Osteen and Creflo Dollar, which was built on
the sermons of Reverand Ike.




Shelly

Possibly the law, told, getting paid, etc.



.

[Danielle Masters]

I know I go to church outside of Lakewood because our church building is located in Westlake. We used to go to the LDS (Mormon) building on 117th but the building was too small to house the growing ward and the boundaries were redrawn also. So there is still a ward meeting there but it is a spanish speaking ward and my spanish just isn't that good since I left California. The plus I would say is that our ward is the Lakewood Ward which I think is nice. Anyhow the point of this is that some people go to church where their faith meets, with our religion we don't really have a choice, although I would love it if there was a building here in Lakewood but I don't see that happening anytime soon. I do hope some of the churches up for sale get reused as churches, I hate seeing churches destroyed, it makes me sad. But once again in life it comes down to money and small churches are struggling to keep afloat. I like to shop locally but I won't judge someone for attending a church, synagogue or mosque in another city, it's not really my business.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I like to shop locally but I won't judge someone for attending a church, synagogue or mosque in another city, it's not really my business.

To my limited knowledge, no mosque in Lakewood, and closest synagogue is on Trisket. While
I am not faulting, what I am trying to convey is that churches and church going, serves both
a spiritual and social function in a city and community. As such they provide a reason/excuse
to leak out of a city or stay put. To understand the death of a city one has to look at any and
all reasons, and if one wants to stop the bleeding and save a city, one needs to understand
the place every element plays, then see if they can be corrected, ignored, changed whatever.

Not casting dispersions on any person, but I am always interested in why people change
churches, religions, even begin or stop, and how "spirituality" plays into these decisions. It
is interesting when you read Gary's comments about how churches are changing to keep up
with the times, but continue to loose parishioners. Makes me wonder, is it the change that
is actually causing the decline.

I remember my grandmother quitting the church when the minister spent more time on
social issues like abortion, than fire and brimstone as she grew up with as a Southern
Baptist. A woman that kept no playing cards in her house, had very little patience getting
dressed and hearing about that!

However the mega church is an interesting phenomenon that I think is impacting inner
ring suburbs as much as any mall ever did, probably more. As they grow and attract more
and more people, it has to be a drain on the inner ring suburbs, as social centers move
to regions that are 10-20 minutes from their homes, and they make new friends and
share social activities that live 10-20 minutes on the other side of the church.

While you have stayed in Lakewood becoming the perfect Lakewood story, of renting,
living, getting involved in schools, and activities, and finally buying your dream home,
others leak away, and the city needs to understand why.

When we started the Observer project, while there was no "secret agenda" there was a
desire, no need, to understand the flow in Lakewood, how it can be slowed, changed,
and even reversed. If we want Lakewood to continue. What is the "brand" of Lakewood
now, and by changing that brand do we attract new residents, or chase them away? As
stated in our mission statement, to learn and know more about Lakewood than anyone
has ever known about a city before. One reason why we felt discussion and ownership
of those words to be so important.

FWIW