How do you manage this?

[michael gill]

Lakewood elementary schools' arrival time is from 8:45 to 9 a.m. The kids are unsupervised and can't get into the building before that, unless they are in a before-care program.

Lots of jobs require arriving at work 8:30 or even 8 a.m.

If you have 2 elementary age kids who are already in an after-care program, before-care adds approximately $400 a month to your child care cost, even if you include the discount for the second child.

If you make the median (not average) income in the city--$42K--that amounts to about 15% of your monthly take-home income, for before-care alone. Incidentally, $42K is nonetheless approximately double what a family of 4 would need to make to be considered living in poverty, according to the federal government guidelines.

What do you do?

Incidentally, your total childcare bill is more like $1000 a month, which is closing in on half of Lakewood's median, monthly take home pay.

What do you do?

Many school systems start at 8 a.m. Why does Lakewood start at 9?

[Ahmie Yeung]

This is actually something brought up in a book I've been reading (well, listening to the unabridged audiobook) called NurtureShock. Some districts have flipped it so that the high school starts later (because teens need more sleep - much of the behavior we "expect" of teens, such as sullen moodiness, are actually signs of chronic sleep deprivation) whereas parents need to be able to have younger kids in supervision earlier. Switch when the elementary and high school start, let the high school kids start at 9am instead. It's easier for parents to get little kids into bed earlier than it is to get teens into bed earlier (especially with the amount of homework and for-pay work teens have to do these days). I don't see the logic in having elementary school kids start at 9am either, unless it's just for the district to squeeze more money out of parents with before-care fees.

[Danielle Masters]

I'm not sure why the schools open at the time they do. I do know that kids can get in at 8:30 if they have breakfast at the building.

I have read studies over the years, I'll do some research , that state that later starting times are better for children. When school starts later children get extra sleep. The studies show that bedtimes remain pretty consistent no matter what time school starts so if it starts later they get a little more sleep and with more sleep they do better in school.

We have lived in two other states and in both states the start time was around 9 am.

My question for you is, if schools started earlier they would also get out earlier and you would have to pay more for after-care so wouldn't you still have the same cost? We are still talking about needing care for you child between 8 and 5 or whatever time your schedule needs. But taking the typical 8-5 workday the same amount of daycare hours would be needed. Or are you suggesting school start earlier but still end at the same time? If that is the case staff salaries on the school level would have to go up.

[michael gill]

I'm not actually suggesting anything--just asking how people in this situation manage, and why Lakewood elementaries start on the late end of the spectrum.

[Ahmie Yeung]

if the elementary school time started earlier, then the need for before-care (and transportation to school, for people who aren't paying the school for the before-care) would be lessened. It's fewer transitions for young children who are less equipped to deal with said transitions. Teens, on the other hand, are developmentally able to get themselves to and from school without as much supervision/reminding and are legal to leave home alone. However, if their school starts later, it'll also end later, which makes it harder for them to compete in the limited local job market if they need outside employment. However, that's not an educational outcomes issue, so how much it should factor into the start time decisions is debatable.

My elementary school in the 80s started well before 9, can't remember the start time, I think it was 8:30 (and that was back when a lot of employees still actually worked 9-5 with an hour lunch break and smoke breaks, from my understanding. My mom, who just has a high school education, worked as a receptionist on that schedule throughout my childhood and was surprised when I first started working and was expected to work 8:30-5 with only a 30min lunch break).

Bedtimes remain consistent with teens in spite of school start time, but parents have a bit more ability to influence bedtime with elementary kids and can nudge it earlier. It takes coordination and planning. NurtureShock also talks about the issue of letting bedtimes go later on the weekends and the effect that has on kids. Problem with an audiobook is I can't look up the excerpt. The book is a synthesis of a bunch of recent research into child development, one chapter is devoted to sleep and discusses school start times. I'm planning on picking up a paper copy of the book so I can look up the spelling of the researchers quoted and read the actual research articles for myself, but it's not at the top of my priority list right now.

[Amy Kloss]

if the elementary school time started earlier, then the need for before-care (and transportation to school, for people who aren't paying the school for the before-care) would be lessened. It's fewer transitions for young children who are less equipped to deal with said transitions.

I don't understand how the need for transportation is less; kids still need to get taken to school, regardless of start time.

Personally, I would not be in favor of starting school any earlier, but I don't need either before or after school care. I definitely empathize with those who do because it always seems to be an issue for working parents. I have seen kids hanging out unsupervised by Grant School as early as 8 a.m. when I have had to drop my kids off early for student council meetings. While this is definitely not desirable, there are probably parents who simply can't afford daycare and don't have the option of a flexible work schedule.

[Ahmie Yeung]

Need for transportation is less because if they need off-site before-care, parents have to drop the kids off at before-care, then before-care transports to the school, then transport again after school to after-care, then parents pick up at after-care and transport home. If school started early enough for parents to drop the kids off directly at school, it cuts out one transport/transition.

FWIW I don't need childcare either - we're a 3 generation family living in the same household, my father-in-law takes my son to school in the mornings (except for right now while my husband is on break from work, Daddy likes walking our son to and from school). However, I was raised by a single mom and my husband's parents both worked long hours throughout his elementary years, so it's an issue we have a lot of empathy for - and households with at-home caregivers are the distinct minority around here these days.

It's a lot easier for me, as an at-home/grad student mom, to have school start late and end late - I'm the definition of "not a morning person" (partially due to medical issues) and it gives me more afternoon time with just the preschooler(s) underfoot and less time solo-parenting the whole brood before Daddy gets home. But there are a LOT of other families who don't have the options that I have and I'm very mindful of that. Just because something is more convenient for me doesn't mean it's best for the children in the school community - and what's best for them has to be the primary priority. Meeting the needs of families with fewer options than mine is part of that.

[Danielle Masters]

I think almost all the schools offer on-site before and after care. It's not through the schools but is offered on-site. I do agree that transitions should be limited for the kids which I would imagine is why before and after care are offered on-site.

I wonder if busing is one of the reasons that other schools open earlier even though in my mind that doesn't make a lot of sense. I did not grow up in Lakewood so I don't know the answer but has the start time always been this late? In my family it works because I don't work and because my husband's job is flexible but not every family has the same options.

Personally the issues of daycare don't affect my family but I do hate to see kids hanging out before school. I do totally sympathize with parents who have no other choice especially when they make too much to get assistance but too little to actually afford care.

[Justine Cooper]

Oh my gosh I had the same problem this year! My job is close by and starts at 8:30. So even taking them to the breakfast program would get me to work late by 10-15 minutes. I set up daycare in the morning and am paying $50 a week for basically 15 miinutes in the morning. I realized how unfamily-friendly the Y is by charging a set rate that would be $100 for just the mornings, even if it is 15 minutes. (that is 2 kids) It is not feasible.

As far as the breakfast program goes, it is usually a terrible unhealthy breakfast, but we have to use it a couple times a week.

I understand your situation Michael and I wondered if there was a group of parents that wanted to do a barter system of taking and where others could pick up or I would even offer a Saturday night babysitting or other barter! If you find any solutions let me know!

[michael gill]

Thanks for your answers, everyone.

Are there folks reading who participate in cooperative morning care pools?

[Danielle Masters]

That sounds like a wonderful idea Michael.

I had no idea the charge for before and after care was a flat rate, I assumed it was hourly and why the heck aren't they willing to work with people?

Lakewood is full of amazing people I am sure an additional option especially for people that only need a little bit of extra time here and there could be found.

[sharon kinsella]

Lots of luck and my blessings to you all.

I swear, when I look back at raising my three kids, low-income single mom, I exhaust myself and realize that I was a female Houdini.

Blessings and luck to those of you just starting this journey.

[Danielle Masters]

Sharon, when I read the struggles that other parents face I do count my blessings. While I have never had to worry about daycare issues I do know that they are a major part of life for so many families. And the one size fits all approach doesn't work for all. It's great that Michael started this topic because it's something I probably wouldn't have really thought about, not to say I don't sympathize because I do. I'm really interested to see what comes about from this, sometimes just starting the conversation helps.

[michael gill]

Just to be clear: I'm not blaming the schools, criticizing morning care programs, or anything like that.

It just occurs to me that this must be a common situation, and that some people in town have probably figured out creative ways to deal with it.

[Mike Coleman]

This thread reminds me of this article I read yesterday.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/michigan-mom-s ... id=8712305