Comments in the paper about troublemakers in inner rings

[DougHuntingdon]

http://blog.cleveland.com/earlyedition/ ... peopl.html

I agree with a lot of these comments. Too bad little can be done

At least it may help you feel like you are not alone!

Doug

[Mark Crnolatas]

Some of those comments do not make it with me.

Color has nothing to do with it, its education?

It's values, morals, ethics, civility, in my opinion, some have them, and some do not, and I've met some really obnoxious, crude and rude PH.Ds, so education or lack of it is not in my equation as any reason for anti-social behavior.

[Jim O'Bryan]

http://blog.cleveland.com/earlyedition/2007/03/readers_respond_to_those_peopl.html

I agree with a lot of these comments. Too bad little can be done

At least it may help you feel like you are not alone!

Doug

Doug

Much more can be done than you might think. Recently the New York Times ran an article similar to this. I believe the Lakewood Library had been called, but not used in the article because Ken and crew have a preemptive, hard but fair way to deal with this.

We have the example sited in the paper of Fry I believe that went preemptive and formed a street watch before trouble started. In the end they were able to get "bad neighbors" out of their neighborhood. The line was drawn in the sand over bad behavior, not color, age, music, etc.

This was just another reason for the block walking. Cities today are not that different from cities from the wild west. A town has a reputation, and much of what follows follows that reputation.

In the 50s, 60s, and 70s Lakewood was known as a town that did not tolerate BS of any style. Hence in 1972 Lakewood was singled out as the safest town in America.

Right now a friend mentioned that Rocky River is in Lock down Mode. curfew enforced. Cars are being pulled over for the slightest problem. Owners talked to, warned or car searched. While this seems like a police state, I would imagine it is temporary and will send a signal, we are not tolerating bad behavior. I believe this was in response to a rash of burglaries and other crimes.

Today we read of parents suing Lakewood Schools for their son being bullied. A couple weeks ago a group of kids from John Marshall made it into Lakewood Academy, and caused trouble. This cannot be tolerated, or it gets away very quickly, and will become a nightmare.

All of this has to be proactive and preemptive. Bad neighbors, and troublemakers simply cannot be tolerated.

That said, I do not buy into some of the comments. Especially "loud music." I remember loud music going back to my sister's boyfriend playing the We Five's version of "If I Had A Hammer" loudly from a 45 record player he had plugged into his cigarette lighter in his 1959 Chevy.

Maybe we can get Ken to jump in, he has made a hobby and a career of dealing with people and trouble makers. I do know, we want the rules of good behavior laid out now, not after the trouble starts.

.

[Bill Call]

That said, I do not buy into some of the comments. Especially "loud music."

You know you are getting old when you think the music is too loud.

[Jeff Endress]

Let me first say that issues of bullying have been around for ages....Scott Farcas bullied little Ralphie.....it's nothing new. But, it always was, and still is unacceptable. But, I think the issue here is indicative of a far greater problem, one which goes far beyond one family who have resorted to a lawsuit to remedy the bullies' damage.

A bully, at the very basic level, represents someone who feels our societal norms aren't applicable to them. Groups of bullies gather together and the result is a gang. And the further result is an erosion of the safety and security of all those who adhere to the societal norms.
It is a very slippery slope on a steep incline. A small group of sociopaths can destroy a neighborhood, an institution or a city.

Jim mentioned Rocky River being in "Lock down mode". My sources tell me this is an accurate description, but is a result of more than a rash of burglaries. It is a result of the prevalence of Keg parties and related issues for which RR has adopted a no tolerance stance (to the point of confiscating one father's liquor cabinet when his child was suspected of hosting such a party). Many of the of our neighbors to the west are unhappy or even outraged by what they perceive as a "gestapo" state. But really, there no other choice. You cannot meet incipient social chaos with half measures. It must be dealt with firmly, predictably and evenly.

Which brings us to Lakewood. Folks, we've got a real problem....the kind of problem that places us a track to the downward spiral that has killed places like East Cleveland. There is a significant influx of those who KW refers to a chaos makers. They flourish when those responsible for imposing and enforcing societal norms fail to do so. It is probably not possible to keep out the chaotic element. It may be possible to keep it in check.

There is a significant number of students in the Lakewood schools who don't reside in Lakewood. I don't know the degree to which these non-resident students represent a part of the chaos problem, but my suspicion is that it is substantial. Notwithstanding the impact of enrollment figures on school funding, first, and foremost, aggressive policies need to be in place to identify those who never are able to produce proof of residency (due to frequent moves). The schools are without any adequate enforcement of the rules they have imposed. Teachers are unwilling to become policemen....they are educators. The "security" officers hired to provide the enforcement are, as any student will tell you "a joke", more likely to have a smoke with a chaos maker than to enforce discipline. Attempts to enforce regulations are trumped by threats of litigation over racial/religious discrimination. Some particularly disruptive students may find themselves enrolled in a computer based "home school' where any attempt at regulation is impossible and those who need it the most are left to their devices throughout the day.

City wide, the chaos makers gather in parks, or public facilities and through their inappropriate actions, render their gathering places unavailable to the citizens. The irresponsible consumption (and distribution) of alcohol in the entertainment districts only adds fuel to the fire. Whether the tools available to quell the chaos making are insufficient (curfews, alcohols regs, etc.) or whether their is an unwillingness to take the hard measures necessary to do so is a question that must be answered and a remedy devised.

But, surely, if the chaos making is not "nipped in the bud" it will destroy the 'wood. Do we have the backbone to do what is needed.

Jeff

[Bill Call]

But, surely, if the chaos making is not "nipped in the bud" it will destroy the 'wood. Do we have the backbone to do what is needed.

Jeff

Finally, something we agree on.

The schools and the City are drifting into chaos.

I get the clear impression that those in the City administration are simply bidding their time, waiting for the date of retirement. The school board seems to be in a complete state of denial regarding the financial and disciplinary problems facing the schools.

Here are some disciplinary numbers per hundred students:

Berea: 05-06 18
03-04 29
01-02 49
00-01 72

Lakewood 05-06 160
03-04 98
01-02 110
00-01 71

Think about those numbers for a second. 160 incidents per 100 students. 1.6 per student. How much can a teacher teach under those conditions. Why are those conditions acceptable?

There has been a 200% increase in disciplinary incidents since 2000-01. It's bad and it is getting worse. The attitude of the school board comes right out of Mad Magazine, What? Me Worry?

It would be nice if there could be a real school board election that talked about real issues but all the local media is afraid to approach the issue. I guess the feeling is that if you pretend hard enough the problem will go away.

Quality of life issues are the sleeper issue in the Mayoral election. Burglaries reached an all time high last year in Lakewood, people have a sense of a community out of control.

The current administration seems to be in a state of denial. I think they underestimate the degree of concern, angst.

The status quo is not good enough but I am afraid that's what we will be stuck with.

[Katrina Holmes]

I have a daughter at the high school who is a junior and we haven't had any problems. In fact as far as I am concerned she is doing better than I did at a small school and when I say small I mean it. I had 62 students in my graduating class and we were one of the biggest to go through the school since the baby boom. Now I am not saying to ignore things, but I just wanted to express that we have been very happy at the high school.

[Jay Foran]

The school board seems to be in a complete state of denial regarding the financial and disciplinary problems facing the schools.

Mr. Call,

More fraudulent and irresponsible statements. When will they end?

The schools always are challenged financially. Find me a school district without them (okay Perry ....but we will need to construct two nuclear reactors to make it work).

Where there are financial issues, they are confronted and addressed. Our school building program is a recognition of an impending financial challenge (aging, high maintenance buildings and declining enrollment) that was confronted and addressed, led by the Board and conceived by the community. Phase I of the project is on time and on budget. Do you think the decision to close Franklin was easy or indicative of a school board who preferred to take the easy way out? Likewise the 3 year operating levy passed in 2002 has been stretched to 6 years. Why? Excellent fiscal oversight and a proactive approach to financial realities ....as much bottom up as top down. The board, administration and teaching staff should all be commended.

Disciplinary issues are being addressed. Why would the number of disciplinary issues rise? Because disciplinary issues are being confronted and recorded. 05-06 was the time window for implementation of the new dress and behavior standards (Board initiated) at Lakewood High School. Commendations to the administration, high school staff and the community for not only drafting the standards, but applying them as well.

Do you believe the declining disciplinary numbers in Berea? If so, I have some absenteeism numbers in Cleveland Schools to show you.

[Jeff Endress]

Katrina

Please don't misunderstand my message. Lakewood schools are good schools. I have 3 children who have graduated from LHS, and a fourth currently a sophomore. That they are good schools is precisely why they are attracting non-residents (Cleveland residents) looking for a functioning school system. And the schools need to be ever vigilent to the incursions by the chaos makers, those who answer to no authority, or do so by flipping it off.

Chaos is opportunistic. It seeks weaknesses or an unwillingness to do the hard job of insisting on the maintenance of societal norms. And then, like a weed it takes over. I am simply urging that our school administrators be VERY active gardeners and that they never back down to a threat of NAACP or ACLU invovlement when that is a smoke screen excusing otherwise inappropriate behaviors.

Jeff

[DougHuntingdon]

Jay, Maybe you can get some school bus rider numbers from the Cleveland schools, too Actually my favorite was a particular school that "improved" by 30% or something over the previous year, yet 100% of the students in that class at that school still failed the proficiency exam...oops

Bill, don't you know children are UNABLE to learn in rooms surrounded with old bricks? Don't be so selfish and think of just yourself all the time. The children are THE FUTURE!

Doug

[Katrina Holmes]

Jeff

I don't think I misunderstood your message, I am just trying to counter balance some of the negative comments I hear, that's all.
Plus your points seem valid.

[Sandy Donnelly]

My forbearance is at an end. After spending 32 years in the Lakewood Schools, with the past 25 years at the high school, I have yet to observe the resultant "chaos" due to supposedly escalating disciplinary issues referred to in the previous posts. As a matter of fact, I observed more disciplinary concerns at LHS when I was a student there in the 70's and was afraid to go to the North Lot because of the miscreants that lurked in the driveway apron.

As the saying goes, "Figures lie and liars figure." To arrive at sweepingly generalized assumptions based on data, without any semblance of comprehension or understanding of the variables involved, is the epitome of fallacious reasoning. Stating that the schools are descending into chaos based on a single set of data is patently ridiculous.

Any high school, especially one with 2200 adolescents, will experience behavioral situations. Disciplinary issues are consistently dealt with in an expeditious manner in order to maintain the good of the order.

[Kate McCarthy]

Chaos is opportunistic. It seeks weaknesses or an unwillingness to do the hard job of insisting on the maintenance of societal norms. And then, like a weed it takes over.

From conversations I have overhead from Lakewood students I think this message needs to be taught. If as a community...which includes school children ... we do not insist as a basic level of civil behavior we are lost. Citizenship needs to be taught. We are all equal members in maintaining the civility of our society and once one person abdicates that responsibility we all lose. I think every student in Lakewood schools needs to be taught...and then may teach their parents...what the responsibilities of good citizenship entail.

[Stan Austin]

Sandy--- You have to realize that Bill Call has a long history of being spot on with his statistics and what they mean. As to the schools falling into chaos, I knew for sure that once again Bill was right on the money when I was listening to the police scanner last week.
Seems that 3 students (presumably LHS) were throwing snowballs on Franklin.
That confirmed that we were staring down the abyss.
Stan Austin

[Bill Call]

I suppose its possible that disciplinary actions have no meaning and that all other districts are falsifying their data to make their districts look good

Possible, but not likely.

Here are comparisons with some other districts for 2005-06 (disciplinary actions per 100 students):

Berea: 18

Lakewood 160

North Olmsted 34

Parma 49.7

Fairview 21.4

Here is the percentage increase (decrease) since 2000-01

Berea (-400%)

Lakewood +225%

North Olmsted (-22%)

Parma (-28%)

Fairview (-11%)

Here are enrollment numbers for 2006-06 and the decrease since 2000-01:

Berea 7,425 -4%

Lakewood 6,118 -14%

North Olmsted 4,447 -3%

Parma 12,453 -2%

Fairview Park 1,711 -8%

So where does that leave us?

On one measure of product quality (discipline) the Lakewood district has disciplinary actions that are 500% greater than the averages of the districts listed.

On one measure of customer satisfaction (enrollment) Lakewood's enrollment has declined by 14% while the districts listed have an average enrollment decline of 3%.

Our costs are approximately 6% higher than those of the listed districts.

So, an important measure of product quality is 500% less than our competition, we are losing customers at an average rate 450% greater than our competition and our costs are at least 6% higher than our competition.

What? Me Worry?

If this was your business instead of your school district would you be concerned or satisfied?