Ohio Has the Third Highest Tax Burden in the U.S.

[Bill Call]

I always had a gut feeling that Ohio was one of the highest taxed states and Lakewood one of the highest taxed cities in the country.

Here is an article that puts it all together. The real question is how states and cities with much lower tax burdens provide superior services.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Ta ... spx?page=2

I don't have to be Nostrodamus to know that most of you out there think its well worth it because we have the best schools, roads, universities and job opportunities in the country.

You don't have to be Jeanne Dixon to know I disagree.

[DougHuntingdon]

Well, you have to pay for the frequently needed SWAT team somehow!

Look at the incredible expansion of the library and schools. Someone has to pay for that.

Seriously, Bill, the people in Ohio and Lakewood are just getting what they want. I think it is a very small minority who have views similar to yours.

Doug

[David Anderson]

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Ta ... eRank.aspx

Here is a breakdown of property tax burden - statewide - by state. I assume these figures are worked into the "All State and Local Taxes" column in the table in Bill Call's post.

[Shawn Juris]

Um, aren't statistics supposed to support the argument? The narrative that initiated this thread seems to imply that Ohio and Lakewood have high tax rates and inferior services. But, based on this information, Ohio appears to be closer to the middle and doing better than average. The property rate tax is ranked 21 (which is much closer to the middle than an outlier) and the median income for the state looks positive being ranked 15.
If this thread proves anything, it's that statistics should be used carefully, if at all. There is plenty to discuss on this topic but this link supports a relatively low property tax and above average median income.

[Bill Call]

Um, aren't statistics supposed to support the argument? The narrative that initiated this thread seems to imply that Ohio and Lakewood have high tax rates

The information I posted includes all state taxes and property taxes.

Some states have no income tax, some have no sales tax, some have high property taxes and some have low property taxes, most states don't allow cities to tax income. If City income taxes were included Ohio would probably rank number one in tax burden.

Each state has chosen a slighlty different mix. The important number is the total tax burden. By that ranking Ohio ranks third. In Cuyahoga County we have the highest property taxes, the highest income taxes and the highest sales taxes. How's the economy doing?

In North Carolina the in state tuition is about $4,700 per year. In Ohio it is about $8,600 per year. North Carolina's tax burden is less than Ohio's and substantially less than Cuyahoga County's. Just because you pay more for the same service doesn't mean it's better.

I guess it's like when you ask the waiter what the difference is between the six dollar sandwich and the twelve dollar sandwich. The answer? Six dollars.

[ryan costa]

In terms of tuition the problem becomes more complex.

There are circuitous processes of issuing grants and scholarships. This adds substantial administrative costs, but ultimately equals lower average tuition. Perhaps it is a veiled substitute for higher admissions standards.

Then there is the portion of the population attending college. This is a reflection of economics, cultural norms, and admissions standards. It often adds increasing economies of scale to education or education outcomes.

North Carolina is a big place. And it is in the South. I'd wager there is much greater Variance in qualities of education there, and great variance in cost-per-pupil between newer developments and older towns.

[Bill Call]

In terms of tuition the problem becomes more complex.

Trying to understand the reasoning behind college tuition costs is something of an impossibility. I can't think of any reason why that freshman english class should cost $900 and why the costs are increasing 10% a year.

When people talk about the cost of a college education and seek solutions they concentrate on what the student pays. They should concentrate on what the student is charged. ???? I am pretty sure that makes sense.

[Shawn Juris]

so what is the proposed reason for why we have such a high tax rate?

[Bill Call]

so what is the proposed reason for why we have such a high tax rate?

Everyone has their pet theory. Mine:

Raising taxes is the easiest "solution" to any problem. Of course the money raised simply goes to give everyone a raise and sweeten the benefit package. The problem still remains.

Take the Lakewood schools.

If the district had the employees pay the employee portion of the retirement benefit and had the employees pay 25% of the health care premium and had a health care program with a reasonable co-pay and deductible the district would never need another operating levy. Will it happen? Never.

[Shawn Juris]

I don't see how that answers the question about why Ohio has such a "large tax burden" as you've described it. We're ranked number 3. Okay. Why? I had begun to put together a collection of links and statistics from the census report and dept of ed. in hopes of gaining an understanding of the issue. But if the discussion is going to keep derailing to become another tirade about Lakewood's issues, then it apparently isn't worth my effort.
Do we really want to understand our position and suggest solutions to improve our standing or are the blanket generalities and complaints the easy solution to any problem, perceived or real?

[Bill Call]

Do we really want to understand our position and suggest solutions to improve our standing or are the blanket generalities and complaints the easy solution to any problem, perceived or real?

The fact is, Ohio has the third highest tax burden in the country and that Lakewood has one of the highest tax burdens in Ohio.

My opinion is that that tax burden hampers our ability to compete and that we get no more than other communities with a much lower tax burdens.

My opinion is also that we have that tax burden because the people we elect can only think of higher taxes as a solution to our problems. I focus on Lakewood because there is a small chance that my opinion might make a difference.

For example, our school board cannot conceive of asking employees to pay the employee portion of the pension contribution or to pay a meaningful portion of the health care costs.

What can they conceive of? Closing schools and eliminating programs unless taxpayers sign on to another round of tax increases.

[Lynn Farris]

We are on a bad cycle. Our government in Lakewood and in Ohio seems to be managing decline. Not what we want - but I guess what Cleveland State Urban Studies teaches.

What causes taxes to be so high? We have a smaller tax base - fewer people with lower paying jobs - but we haven't dropped the service levels or employee levels for government.

The Federal Reserve Bank did the study on Eminent Domain in which they cited: http://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/ ... erity.html

"What can governments do to promote economic development that yields positive economic growth? Rather than use eminent domain or other tools to target individual economic development projects, local governments should ask the fundamental question as to why the desired level of economic growth is not occurring in the local area without significant economic development incentives. For example, are taxes too high, thus creating a disincentive for business to locate to the local area? Do current regulations stifle business creation and expansion? All of the targeted economic development in the world will not compensate for a poor business environment. From a regional perspective, local governments should focus on creating a business environment conducive to risk-taking, entry and expansion rather than attempting targeted economic development through eminent domain or other means."

Maybe we should concentrate on making a good business environment - which in turn would increase business and lower the taxes we all pay.

We should expand citistat and take it seriously. But we really shouldn't need citistat to tell us to fix a leaking urinal. I don't mean to beat a dead horse - but we have a urinal that has been leaking for months and no one seems to be able to fix it. That seems like a metaphor for our economy. We need to spend money on things that are important - but we need to save money where we can and should. This isn't only an economic issue - but an environmental one.

[Gary Rice]

Are we back to that urinal AGAIN?

It that thing still running?

If so, let's continue to sing my song!
(to the tune of "Battle Hymn of the Republic please)

Ode to a Urinal
(To melody: Battle Hymn of the Republic)

Mine eyes have seen the splatter, and
the dampness on the ground.
Mine ears have heard the rush of
mighty waters falling down.
My shoes, they squeak beyond belief,
with such a seasick sound,
Our toilet gurgles on...

The urinal at Lakewood Park can
really make you squirm.
It can pass more water than a
nervous pachyderm.
The silly thing has got us all up
standing on the berm.
Our toilet gurgles on

Refrain:

Lakewood urinals forever! (3 times)
Our toilet gurgles on!


My wallet thins from water bills,
too soggy to ignore,
Yet still, we dream of better days,
beside the mens' room shore.
Politicians hear us,
or we'll show you to the door.
Our toilet gurgles on!

(to Refrain)

[ryan costa]

What about these states with higher minimum wages than Ohio? Does that go in the tax-burden basket? It must seriously raise the cost of doing business. So do the hyper-inflated real estate prices and lease rates. Southern California. Portland. Seattle. NYC. Boston.

[Lynn Farris]

Ryan you pose an interesting question. I would suggest that the higher minimum may make fewer people eligible for public assistance - which could lower taxes. Also the higher minimum wage could cause more people to be contributing more to the tax base. So while the total cost of doing business may be higher - they may actually have lower taxes and more people that can afford the products. Remember Henry Ford - who wanted the everyday American to be able to purchase his cars?

The cost of real estate is also intriguing. The cities you state are not hurting in terms of the economy. So it seems that the appeal of these cities is driving up the cost - kind of like an economic curve in a cost benefit analysis. Certainly having low real estate values isn't making Ohio a beacon for business. So while your logic seems to work - facts seem to be disputing it.