Crocker Park a huge success, to the chagrin of many

[DougHuntingdon]

source:

http://www.cleveland.com/business/plain ... xml&coll=2

[Bill Call]

I for one am not chagrined about the success of Crocker Park. It is one bright spot in North East Ohio's dismal economy. We aren't going to get anywhere as a community by hoping someone else will fail.

I am intrigued by the idea that Crocker Park in some ways is offering what Lakewood already has. Lakewood comes very close to the economic take off point but we just can't get anyone to light the fuse.

Rockport, Rosewood and the Riverfront project will have almost as many new apartments and homes as Crocker. The demand is there. There is just a little something missing. I am not sure what it is. I would say leadership but what does that mean?

[Jeff Endress]

There is just a little something missing. I am not sure what it is. I would say leadership but what does that mean?

Bill

I agree that there's something missing. Crocker Park was/is a PLANNED community. Designed, researched, marketed and all towards an identified (or identifiable) client/consumer base. Lakewood has no comprehensive development plan, and a number of contradictory, conflicting, underfunded and under empowered groups who have no clear direction, no clear mandate and no clear PLAN. While Crocker Park has a blueprint of what to do, and a road map of where to go, we have a variety of Ad Hoc groups who undertake projects which may or may not be beneficial with no idea of the impact those actions may have on the ultimate goal, because no one knows what the ultimate goals is.

So, as much as we seem to discuss the faux downtown, sometimes with derision, the fact is, Crocker developed a plan, copied Lakewood, and leveraged that hometown feel into a commercial success. If we ever had the foresight, cohesive efforts and a recognized goal and blueprint, I dare say we could do the same. But, as it is now, Crocker gets the Barnes and Nobles, Trader Joe's.......we get wilting flower pots, an Aldi's and vacant real estate that can be developed in anyway the owner desires.

Jeff

Jeff

[Kenneth Warren]

On the leadership question, economist John Kenneth Galbraith supplies this:

“All of the great leaders have had one characteristic in common: it was the willingness to confront unequivocally the major anxiety of their people in their time. This, and not much else, is the essence of leadership.â€Â

[Jeff Endress]

My esteemed college, Ken Warren queried:

So the question I would ask is what is the major anxiety in Lakewood leadership must confront?

No Trader Joe’s….? No Appleby’s…..? No Cheesecake Factory...? No plan…..? Not enough money....? No city manager? Not enough police...? Chaos in the park...? Excess supply of deterioratating housing? Race..? Too few public servants living in the Wood? Too many public servants dissing the Wood?

Indeed, Ken. Or is it simply enough to allow the "ship of state" to drift, rudderless, and accept whatever "little nuggets" are tossed our way?

But, make no mistake about it. Leave out the names. Who cares the what the name is? Cheesecake? How about Elmwood? No Appleby's? We've got Melt! But, the point is simply that these things happened by "happenstance". The real question is simply this:

Since there is no plan for the development of Lakewood, are we willing to allow a continued Ad Hoc parcel by parcel development? I mean, we got a Taco Bell and a Burger King that way. Who's to say we couldn't leverage that non directional approach and maybe get a Sonic or a Rax?
Or an Aldi's....

Without a Development Plan, there is no direction. We take what we get. We have no control, no direction, no input (okay...we have the architectural review board), NO DIRECTION. What is the vision? What is the plan? And where is the the road map that gets us there?

We have a lot of dedicated citizens working to improve the city. But who draws them into a a cohesive group so that there efforts accomplish something towards a desired goal?

TO OUR LEADERS: WHERE IS THE PLAN? WE'LL BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO WORK ON IT. Lay it out. Two years...Five Years...

The mantra that "this takes times" is NOT a substitute for a goal, which may indeed take time to accomplish. But without the plan, the blueprint, the direction, "taking time" and being patient", is merely another way of waiting for the the situation to deteriorate ( or to hope that Ad Hoc development saves it).

By the way...I've seen Ad Hoc Development. It's called Breezewood.

Jeff

[Jim O'Bryan]

I for one am not chagrined about the success of Crocker Park. It is one bright spot in North East Ohio's dismal economy. We aren't going to get anywhere as a community by hoping someone else will fail.

I am intrigued by the idea that Crocker Park in some ways is offering what Lakewood already has. Lakewood comes very close to the economic take off point but we just can't get anyone to light the fuse.

Rockport, Rosewood and the Riverfront project will have almost as many new apartments and homes as Crocker. The demand is there. There is just a little something missing. I am not sure what it is. I would say leadership but what does that mean?

Bill

One of the problems I have noted from my work with the small stores on Detroit and Madison is what I call "dead zones" and they are a killer for retail. This is something the planned community of Crocker Park does not have, or suffers from.

What connects the antiques stores and shops between Edwards and Granger, with the shops between Webb and West Clifton, and the shops between Ethel and Brockley. Huge areas with no retail, making it impossible to walk and shop without serious walking. This pattern is in play all the way down Detroit and Madison.

I have also noticed a current trend of business that do not need storefronts filling storefronts because they are so cheap. This will only add to the problem.

All of this goes back to plans, and how many of these small businesses have been let down by those that are supposed to be helping them.

As for success at Crocker Park, talk with the store owners and the managers. Sales are not there yet, they need a little more to make it happen. Ironically one of the things I hear is parking. Go figure.


.

[Phil Florian]

Idea: Let's just sell everything north of, and including, Madison on up to the Lake to Bob Stark. Stark has something that Lakewood does not...ownership of a huge hunk of land and at this time, no one can say boo about it. Is Stark really a "leader" because he gets this stuff done? Or is he simply someone that doesn't have to worry a bit about what citizens say? Someone whose job isn't on the line every few years; someone who has to spend serious time and money to convince people to vote for him at those times? We don't need leaders, we need people to buy up every piece of property in a gigantic part of Lakewood and develop it sensibibly without worrying about the Lakewood electorate because, as Kenneth pointed out, there is so much anxiety out there no one could possibly address those concerns and still make things happen. No wonder our City sits on its hands waiting for things to happen.

What does happen are islands of cool in a sea of, as Jim points out, dead space. The Library (congrats again!) is an amazing project in process all the time. New and bigger all the time. YMCA, the schools, microdevelopment of a block here or there. All well and good but so far nothing that will draw the kind of numbers into the city as residents and shoppers.

I hate to bring up a sore spot, but West End was our last chance for a gigantic piece of land being given to a developer to make into an experience similar to Crocker Park. Right or wrong, the citizens said they didn't want that. Which is fine, but at least at that time we had leadership in City Hall making decisions and moving forward with a vision. Now we have to hope that all these wonderful little (in scale to all of Lakewood, not "little" in actual scope individual program level) projects and works going on in the city brings together a sort of vision for the city that no individual planning group could do on its own.

One hopes that the Beck Center as the epicenter to a new "Arts District" will create the kind of experience that will be a draw to the city but I am not holding my breath until some plans are on the table to look at and go over.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I hate to bring up a sore spot, but West End was our last chance for a gigantic piece of land being given to a developer to make into an experience similar to Crocker Park. Right or wrong, the citizens said they didn't want that. Which is fine, but at least at that time we had leadership in City Hall making decisions and moving forward with a vision. Now we have to hope that all these wonderful little (in scale to all of Lakewood, not "little" in actual scope individual program level) projects and works going on in the city brings together a sort of vision for the city that no individual planning group could do on its own.

Phil

Coming from a numbers person who supported the WestEnd, who now has a very public position when asked where we would be today had it been built was, "The city would be between 6 and 12 million dollars in debt." With only 24 years from the HUGE tax payoff! I believe the first $310,000 a year from the next school levy would have gone straight to the developer as well. If I read the contract correctly.

We did not have leadership in City Hall, and every study was flawed or forced. We were not giving land away we were paying people to take it. So you are right, let's not being up dead issues.

The question my esteemed friend who heads the library and I often ponder is why does "buying" make people feel better about themselves? Why do people go starry eyed with the thought of Applebees but do not look at the rest of the equation. Fads, short life span, crime, pollution, and inner ring "sprawl" Inner ring sprawl is when communities whore themselves for pennies on the dollars to companies that come in and close, leaving the place empty.

Phil, why did you choose Lakewood to live and raise your family?


.

[DougHuntingdon]

Jim

Good point about the dead zones, although most people are too lazy to get off their butt to walk very far outside. You can't blame them completely, especially in the winter, since a lot of businesses don't like to shovel their own sidewalks for their own customers or potential customers. I bet they shovel the snow on the sidewalk very well at Crocker Park this winter.

Doug

[Jeff Endress]

Phil

You both miss and make my point. As far as the Westend issue, this did not represent any proactive planning on the part of City Hall. It was, as is Aldi's or Rockport, a developer's idea, which was simply had the support of City Hall. It was not a proposal in response to an overall development plan, because of course, there is no plan. And as much as I take pride in the "islands of cool", they do not represent steps towards an overall goal, or parts of a global development plan. And without that planning, the best we can hope for is some of those islands to spur some type of further growth, which may or may not further enhance the city.

Why the business of the City of Lakewood has neither a financial plan or an economic development plan is beyond me. Any business would. But maybe, as Ken points out, it simply easier to allow for an Ad Hoc approach, drifting with the currents in a meandering stream that eventually flows to the sea. Too bad. With some real leadership, the disparate groups could be brought together, a focus developed and growth nurtured. Instead we get wilted flowers and Taco Belle and Aldi's.
And the really sad part is that now, with vacant lots which could be a part of an economic development plan (GE, soon to be vacant schools, etc), we are only positioned to gratefully accept whatever anyone chooses to place there.

Jeff

[c. dawson]

Let's not forget that Crocker Park is also the "flavor of the month." It's only 2 years old, so it's difficult to judge what its impact will be long-term. Right now it's shiny and new, and has that new-car smell. But what about in 10 years? 20 years? Let's cast our fertile imaginations back into the 1970s, when Randall Park Mall opened up. It was the one of, if not THE largest mall in America at that time, and people from all over Northeast Ohio and elsewhere flocked to it.

Fast-forward in time, and it's a ghost town. Surrounding it are empty storefronts that formerly contained "hot" big-box retailers like Circuit City.

Look elsewhere in town ... Euclid Square Mall was once shiny and new and quite popular ... now it's also virtually empty. Let's also not forget Tower City or the Galleria, both of which opened with huge fanfare, and all the latest high-end trendy fashion retailers (remember Barneys New York in Tower City? Anyone want to spend $300 for a white cotton button-down shirt??). Anyone been to these lately? Hardly "high end" or even popular anymore. And look at what was once Westgate Mall!

Prior to these malls, the big thing in retail were strip shopping centers, where there would be big anchor stores at the end, with smaller retailers filling in (hmmm, sounds just like the "lifestyle centers," only with less landscaping and crappy architecture). Places like Southgate and Shoregate were cutting edge, hugely popular, and then also became dilapidated and empty. But lately, there's been a return to the strip shopping center, and moving away from malls ... so a place like Southgate actually gets revived by adding a Home Depot, and even new strip shopping centers, like the under-construction Steelyard Commons are getting built. What's old is new again. And in the case of Westgate, a old-style enclosed shopping mall is being replaced by a "lifestyle center" that is essentially a glorified strip shopping center! And across the border in Rocky River the new Beachcliffe is ... a strip shopping center.

I have little doubt that in 15-20 years, all the stylish retailers will be gone from Crocker Park, and it will be filled with locally-owned mom and pop stores, hawking cel phones, hair care products, etc. Because by that time, there will be some flashy new shopping center concept out in Sheffield Lake, Columbia Station, or Grafton.

Times change, and people keep moving farther and farther out, for whatever reason ... and so the latest restaurants and shops go with them. And will keep doing so. Out where I grew up in Lake County, the big shopping center is Great Lakes Mall in Mentor ... but now there's a new buzz going on about a "lifestyle center" being built in neighboring Willoughby ... and if that happens, all the latest and greatest stores will flock there. Great Lakes Mall is already filling up with small independent stores that are not chains, because a number of the fancy retailers have fled to Legacy Village. And since Legacy Village has opened, a number of retailers have come and gone already. And that place is only about 3 years old.

So let's not get too worried about Crocker Park. Yes, Stark is doing everything he can to essentially turn that shopping center into a self-contained small town ... next thing you know, he'll be pushing for some church to relocate to Crocker Park. All he'll need then is his medical center and a hardware store, and he's got pretty much everything. But the thing is, he'll move on to another project. And as time goes on, the time, attention, and money he can lavish on the Crocker Park project will wane. Soon the fancy cushioned chairs and loveseats out on the sidewalks will disappear, then the big chess sets, and there won't be parades through the "streets" of Crocker Park anymore (which is such a joke to begin with).

I've spent most of my professional and academic career being a historian, and the first and most important thing it has taught me has to step back and take the long view of things. And that's certainly the case with Crocker Park. It's only been around 2 years. Give it time. Let's see how it works and affects all of us in the long run. Yes, it will continue to attract the latest and greatest retail concepts. But those concepts burn like wildfire ... hot and fast, but once they lose fuel, they expire. Meanwhile, folks still have needs for certain products and services, and they'll continue to go to wherever has those.

Lakewood continues to have strengths. One of those is the supply of available storefronts that local entrepreneurs can make their starting point. If you're a local entrepreneur who wants to open your own store, you don't have pockets deep enough to have a storefront in Crocker Park. But you can afford Lakewood. Same for restaurants. Places that are more cutting edge, like Melt, go to walkable urban areas. Places that serve bland corporate CRAP, like Applebees, go to the outer ring suburbs. Frankly, I'd rather take cutting edge. If you want a good example, go to Chicago. Lovely city. If you go to the outer suburbs, you'll find all the bland Applebee's, TGI McFunster's (sorry, I had to steal that term from Anthony Bourdain) and other corporate restaurants where the food is as fake as the tchotckes on the wall. But if you look at all the interesting and "happening" neighborhoods, you find an amazing array of interesting stores and restaurants in traditional stores that open up off of sidewalks along main streets. People in those areas walk to the stores and restaurants, and there's nary a national chain to be seen. This is what Lakewood has to a degree, and should keep cultivating.

Crocker Park is a blip on the radar. It's just another shopping center, and it will also go the way of Shaker Square, Euclid Square Mall, Randall Park Mall ... and Westgate Mall.

Lakewood's been around for more than a century. If Crocker Park lasts longer than 25 years without being bulldozed and reconstructed as some new retail trend, I'd be surprised

[ryan costa]

I haven't been to crocker park in about a year. How vacant or occupied is it? Do vacancies stand out less so than on old-school commercial streets in lakewood and cleveland?

When you get into Lorain County you will find shopping centers less than thirty years old that are 20 to 50 percent vacant.

In the outer counties, such as Seneca, you will find entire Shopping Malls similarly occupied. Whole strings of them leading to the next cool mall and a longer shopping commute.

One can't help but wonder: As the speed of "advancement" increases the speed of obsoleteness also increases. In the confines of the linear simplicity of turbo capitalism and globalism used to justify turbo capitalism and globalism, I have to wonder if the wheeling and dealing of loans used to finance Crocker Park will be paid off before it becomes obsolete. The property values and income generating ability tend to stagnate or collapse just as the tax abatements expire. It is important to trade those loans, recievables, and assets off to someone else before that happens.

What is the difference between Young Professionals making X grand a year moving into an old house in lakewood and Young Professionals making X grand a year moving into an apartment or condo at Crocker Park?

A. One group will not be used as a marketing tool.

Tax abatements are used to attract developers. In the case of crocker park, the reported purpose of the development is to attract Young Professionals. Why not just give new residential owners tax abatements?

[Phil Florian]

Jim,

I am glad you clarified the West End point. I wasn't as involved with Lakewood politics at that point, having just bought our home and was starting to dig in. I still don't know the details. My only point was, good or not, it was a direction and if the leadership didn't come from City Hall, that proves the other points on the board that we lacked then and continue to lack any vision from the people we vote into office. Sad. Thanks for clarifying, though.

As for why we moved to Lakewood (I was joking when we passed in the hallway! ), my wife and I had Lakewood in mind when we lived in Cincinnati in 1999 and were ready to move back to the NE. To be honest, it was due to its old rep from when I grew up in Cleveland...urban, diverse, good schools, nifty Detroit and Madison Rd. store front businesses, and, in many ways, a more liberal stronghold than a lot of Ohio. It was very convenient to I-90, the Shoreway and downtown, which is very important to what we had planned to do job-wise and socially. It was also close to Westlake where my mother lives, which was important to be close to family (but not so far from downtown). In short, it was and continues to be a perfect balance for the lifestyle we want to live. We made it permanent when we went from renting to buying our current home a few years later. Still don't regret it, either!

Jeff: Along with Jim, thanks for the clarification. As noted, West End was "before my time" in terms of really digging into learning about the city and how it was run. There is still a lot of conflicting information out there, depending on who you ask. It would be nice if someone would put together a, wait for it, West End Commission: A Cautionary Tale. See it from beginning to end with no bias, only facts and results. Could learn a lot from it.

But I do agree, we need the plan. Wait, no...we need The Plan (important enough to be in capitals). How do we get it? We hear when we elect people that they will do so. And then they don't. We hear the next guy say, "see, that guy didn't have a plan but I will" or "No, really, this time I will have a plan" from the incumbent and again, we are screwed either way because in reality, there is no Plan.

So if the Ad Hoc Method doesn't work, how do we hold our elected officials accountable? Simply saying "don't vote for them next time" isn't really helpful because that means we have to wait 4 years to do that and hope that things haven't stagnated too much in the mean time. We have people attending city council meetings that raise points but it apparently isn't enough.

One thing West End did do from all accounts is it got people talking. Seriously talking. Regardless of if you agreed with the plan or not, people had opinions of it. It motivated people to attend council meetings (it was during this time I attended my first council meeting...very exciting), hold their own sessions, gather, chat, argue, blame, etc. But as soon as it went away, other than some backpatting and smaller groups forming out of it, the major dialogue went missing.

How do we get people pissed off enough to get out there and hold the City accountable for the lack of vision? Gads, even I was bored by the end of that sentence. How do people get excited about the LACK of something? What will give more muscle to one or more of these Ad Hoc groups to hold the city accountable?

[Jeff Endress]

Phil

It's one hell of a dilemma.

But I do agree, we need the plan. Wait, no...we need The Plan (important enough to be in capitals). How do we get it? We hear when we elect people that they will do so. And then they don't. We hear the next guy say, "see, that guy didn't have a plan but I will" or "No, really, this time I will have a plan" from the incumbent and again, we are screwed either way because in reality, there is no Plan.

So if the Ad Hoc Method doesn't work, how do we hold our elected officials accountable?

But, I think as a starting point you have to look at who is doing something and who is standing in the way of getting something done. A development plan simply can't happen overnight. It requires a good deal of investigation, expert advice and ultimately, a consensus of our elected officials for its adoption. The Mayor certainly cannot do this unilaterally (even assuming that 1/2 a term is sufficient time to do so). And while the Mayor must certainly be a part of the discussion, as the executive who will implement any plan, at the end of the day, I think that council, as our representatives in city government should have been working on this long ago.

Jeff

[Shawn Juris]

Here's a plan.

http://www.mainstreet.org/content.aspx? ... &section=2
http://www.mainstreet.org/content.aspx? ... &section=2

Doesn't have anything to do with big box developers, steers clear of allowing Taco Bell adobes in the middle of 1930 architecture and hey, it's already gotten started. We won't have to start all over again to research and write reports and review reports and issue press releases to finally solicit participants. All we have to do is work it and make it work for us. It doesn't stink of kitchy "new urbanism" (but builds on the Grow Lakewood recommendation to "capitalize on New Urbanism") and it doesn't require Regionalism. Sure, it's had it's bumps but really what doesn't? We're about to vote next week and we haven't gotten that right in 200 years of trying.