Strickland or Blackwell ? Who is better for Lakewood?

[Bill Call]

The people of the City of Lakewood pay about $40,000,000 a year in State income taxes. As far as I can tell we get very little for our money. See this site for some interesting numbers:

http://tax.ohio.gov/divisions/tax_analy ... y2cy04.stm

Since party labels don’t mean much anymore I am generally an independendent voter. One year I might vote Democratic and the next I might vote Republican. The years in between I vote for obscure third party candidates.

The Democratic Party used to be the party of the working-man. Now it is the party of the government bureaucracy. For many Democratic leaders the solution to our problems is less take home pay for the taxpayer and better benefits for government employees. The Democratic solution seems to be to send more money to Columbus so that Columbus can return 20% of that money to locals.

The Republican Party used to be the party of limited government. It has become the big government party. For many Republican leaders the solution to our problems is bags of cash for their campaign contributors. They want power for the sake of power and don’t seem to believe in anything but lining their own pockets. The only Republican economic platform for the State of Ohio I can recall is the plan to save race track jobs by allowing slot machines at Northfield Park.

I am going to ignore party labels and look at the specific plans outlined by each candidate. As of now I have to agree with a quip attributed to Abraham Lincoln. When he was asked which candidate he preferred he thought for a moment and said, “Whenever I think of one I prefer the otherâ€Â

[Joan Roberts]

My problem with Strickland is that legislators usually turn out to be lousy executives.

My problem with Blackwell is that he's a textbook example of "demagogue." Plus, I don't like politicians who campaign with Bibles any more than I want ot see a priest climbing to the pulpit with a copy of the Ohio Revised Code.

I don't see either being particularly good for Lakewood. I think Lakewood, alas, is on its own , no matter who wins.

[Bill Call]

I think Lakewood, alas, is on its own , no matter who wins.

I knew if I talked enough you and I would finally agree on something!!

[Phil Florian]

Can't put it better than either of your statements as they are dead on, though I do lean towards Strickland for purely Democratic reasons (as I am one) but I am not overly impressed with Stickland, yet. Maybe if I read more stuff I will be but I reserve judgement on that.

Blackwell's ideas kind of scare me, though. The TEL, for one. His ideas about getting rid of many social safety net programs is another. I thought his campaign's tactless attack on the fact that Strickland is a guy who has to live paycheck to paycheck was kind of demeaning (and interesting...not ALL of the Republicans in the State are rich investors...).

I do agree with the idea of streamlined government but doing so without some responsibility is going to be devastating for the State. Simply axing money off and hoping no one gets hurt will do a lot of damage. Beyond that, Blackwell simply trumpets the Republican cry of God, Guns and Gays, none of which have anything to do with getting jobs to come and stay in the State, lower taxes, etc. It just gets votes.

A slam on both is their lousy Websites which I had hoped would be dry but information packed locations to gather data on each person. Lacking in vitriol and rhetoric. You know, non-political stuff. Turns out I was too hopeful. Both spend far too much time bashing each other around. Blackwell swipes at Strickland for specific votes in his record and trumpets his fundraising acumen while Strickland swipes back with the fact that Blackwell won't share his tax returns (we know he is rich, why see how he does it?) while trumpeting that he has raised even MORE money. Oh well. Who needs substance??

That said, Blackwell at least has a plan, horrid as it is. Strickland is a bit hazier but I think I have to wonder if more handwringing is worse for the state than the addition of a religious zealot and foe of the working (and non-working) citizen. You know, the paycheck to paycheck people like me.


Phil

[Bill Call]

A slam on both is their lousy Websites which I had hoped would be dry but information packed locations to gather data on each person. Lacking in vitriol and rhetoric. You know, non-political stuff. Turns out I was too hopeful. Both spend far too much time bashing each other around.

I always hope for but rarely see specific plans from politicians. It is easier to accuse your opponent of being the anti-christ.

I would generally lean towards Blackwell's idea's on limiting spending but the devil is in the details. My main frustration is that each year government at all levels spends records amounts of money but still pleads poverty. If Lakewood sends 40 million to Columbus and Columbus sends 10 million back to us what have we gained by sending 50 million to Columbus?

In a typical year in Ohio the generic Republican would have a 51 to 49% advantage over the Democrat. Because of complete disgust with the Republican party I think the generic Democratic advantage is now 55-45%.

Blackwell will have to campaign aggressively, offer specific plans and seperate himself from the sticky fingered snots that dominate Ohio's Republican party. It is possible he will do all of those things but not likely.

Strickland just needs to smile and nod. I don't expect any details from him and that may give Blackwell an opportunity.

[Phil Florian]

Strickland just needs to smile and nod. I don't expect any details from him and that may give Blackwell an opportunity.

That's actually a good point in Ted's favor. Blackwell definitely has the uphill battle. For example, Blackwell cites the last few years of record government spending but the person doing it was a Republican! And as you noted, the "sticky fingers" of the many active criminals at the State level are also Republicans. Stickland can afford to not say much and just show up and he has a good chance at victory. Blackwell is trailing in the very state that gave Bush the Whitehouse so that is a huge shift.

Bill, what is your take on the TEL Amendment idea?

[Paul Conroy]

Why vote for either of the collusive twins? Why not vote for someone who has a plan for a prosperous Ohio, Bill Peirce. To see what he is all about visit his website: http://peirceforohio.com

As for voting Democrat or Republican:
Do what you have always done, get what you have always got.
It's time for change.

[Jim O'Bryan]

...in the very state that gave Bush the Whitehouse

Or so the story goes.



.

[Tim Liston]

Paul…..

I’m with you. After having “wastedâ€Â

[Bill Call]

Bill, what is your take on the TEL Amendment idea?

I liked the idea of limiting the growth of State spending by law contained in Blackwell's TEL idea. Most communities get very little from their State tax dollar. In the last five years Lakewood residents have sent about 200 million dollars to the State. Did we get 200 million dollars in benefit? No.

I did not like the idea of a state law limiting local spending. The concept of home rule is an important one and shouldn't be limited. While you can argue that local communites waste money at least they waste money in the local community.

Blackwell's orinal TEL idea has been changed. I don't know anything about the changes.

One more thing. Cuyahoga County spends 1.5 BILLION dollars a year. That is about 55 million dollars a year spent on behalf of Lakewood residents. What did Lakewood get for its 55 million dollars?

[Joan Roberts]

The proposed TEL turns conservatism on its head.

Conservatives are for less government spending, yes, but more fundamentally, are against more government.

More laws=more government.

The idea that lawmakers need a "stop us before we spend again" law is repugnant, I think, to someone who understands what it is to be a conservative (think George Will, not Sean Hannity)

I can't speak to what Lakewood "gets" for its state or county tax dollars. New York state always argues that it gets far less from the federal government than say, Montana, in terms of percentage of what it "sends" to Washington.

But that's kind of a hard argument to pursue in such stark dolar terms. Lakewoodites use the interstates, don't we? We send our kids to state colleges. A dollar doesn't necessarily have to be spent IN Lakewood to benefit Lakewood.

I'm not arguing that our state or county dollars are well spent, just for a better way of evaluating.

[Stephen Calhoun]

One of the interesting points raised in this thread is the idea of net gain or net loss from tax revenues sent to the state, (or Feds for that matter).

This takes many forms. My favorite example was the Savings-and-Loan bail out that effected a vast stream of taxpayer monies moved, in effect, from one part of the country to another part of the country.

I don't know what the data suggests, but is it possible that our politics is deeply infected by leveraging net gains and losses to reward constituencies for political purposes? Is the idea that government can accomplish more than this swallowed up by the possibility that this spoils system is what government has become really good at?

As for Blackwell, he seems to be a very cynical and, at the same time, masterful manipulator of the tools given him. The whole snafu of the 2004 election suggests (to me) he isn't very much in favor of voter participation!

Recently, his interpretation and execution of the Voter ID Provision in the Ohio election reform law, (basically a solution in seek of a problem as Republicans majority wrote it,) strikes me as deeply un-democratic, (small 'd' democratic, as in democracy).

TEL disguises an impulse to conduct an accelerated race to the bottom. Ohio has had its manufacturing fundamentals sucked out of it and this has led to an aggravation of the divide between its rural and urban interests. even without the data (at hand,) I would guess Ohio has been a net loser as far as federal funds flowing back. And, it seems one alternative implicit in the paternalistic ethos of TEL could be privitization if not Christianization (via vouchers) of education in Ohio.

At the end of the day I'll opt and favor neolib over-intellectualization over radical post-conservative anti-intellectualism. Just for Blackwell's position on the teaching of biology alone, I wouldn't vote for him. It's a small thing, perhaps, but it covers a deep ignorance.

But, in a race to the bottom, 'Ohio' becomes stupider, more superstitious, less competitive, poorer, and uglier. Maybe the fantasy will win out to create a polis of farmers and evangelical telemarketers. Still, if Ohio has problems to solve, and it does, as it is with the U.S., the Republicans have been the majority long enough to judge them on the merits of their accomplishments to this date.

[Phil Florian]

Good answers on the TEL, though I have to disagree with Bill that simply pointing to a figure and saying, "How has that helped me??" is a bit tough to swallow. A lot of money is spent in ways that are, to some eyes, invisible. For example, some of that County money was raised by a levy to fund Mental Retardation services (I know because I work for the County). The County supports 10,000 individuals across the county with varying degrees of disability, some with severe disabling conditions, both physical and cognitive, along with some with only minor impairments but still need some help with housing, finding and keeping a job, etc.

Lakewood is host to a LOT of homes for people with disabilities. People with disabilities who live outside of family homes but need help live in individual apartments, congregate settings (apartment buildings where all or most residents are people with disabilities getting paid support services), rental homes, and "board and care" homes where they live with someone paid to help them (vs. their own place where someone comes in to help, like Home Health Care). This is not an inexpensive service but a very necessary one but also quite "invisisible" to many people. This is because we don't house them in some giant institution any more (well, mostly...always exceptions). Neighbors obviously know but we don't wave around flags or hang signs that point to "Home for the Mentally Retarded."

This is money that benefits everyone and is county dollars matched usually with State and Federal Dollars. In fact, when we use Medicaid programs that pay for such situations (which not only help the person with a disability but also the people paid to help them, their doctors, nurses, employment services, etc.) we get matching dollars that forces more money that we "send out" to "come back."

It isn't a road that everyone sees or a building that everyone uses but it is money we spend in taxes that comes back to benefit the entire community. This happens with all sorts of services like for Seniors (Passport program, RSS, etc.), Veterans, people with mental illness, people who through no fault of their own lost jobs to the rapidly evacuating big business, etc.

It comes back, just not always with something shiny and new we can point at with a stick.

Also there is an argument to be made that Lakewoodites can benefit by money spent in other communities, no?

[Joan Roberts]

Also there is an argument to be made that Lakewoodites can benefit by money spent in other communities, no?

Of course.

There is a natural tendency to think of one's city as a self-contained entity unto itself , with big, bright borders. (and no, it's not just the Observer that fosters that notion, nor is it confined to Lakewood).

But Lakewood is not an island in the south Pacific. When we drive to our jobs outside Lakewood, we use county and state-maintained roads and bridges, for example, so our livelihood depends on county expenditures. And Phil is right about things like MRDD and even the county library system, even though we're not part of it.

There is also the argument that, if Lakewood is getting a crummy break, people in Westlake and Solon can REALLY make that argument, since they get far less in public school aid than Lakewood does.


Also, there is the issue of "pass-through" funds. Not all of Cuyahoga County or the state of Ohio's expenditures are funded via direct taxes. At least some of those moneys come from higher levels of govt.

For example, while Lakewood's schools may spend 65 million or so, Lakewood taxpayers only fund about 37 million. The rest are state and federal grants.

I mentioned the NY-Montana argument. While it's true that New York gets something like 86 cents "back" from every dollar it "sends" to Washington, and Montana gets $1.25, the US Army provides for the defense of 20 million New Yorkers, as opposed to 900,000 Montanans, even though a base may be located in Montana. Even though the feds might contribute more to the 500 miles of I-94 in Montana than I-95 through NYC, millions more use the latter in a given year.

So those numbers can always be deceiving.

[Joan Roberts]

And also to Mr. Calhoun.

Your post this morning really got me thinking about government and business and the relationships between the two.

We think a lot about the "go-go" high-growth conservative Sun Belt as being prosperous because of laissez-faire government policies. And to a large degree, that might be true.

Yet,.some of the hottest economic markets (northern California, New York City, Boston, Washington state are in the nation's most "liberal" areas. High-tax, pro-labor, etc.

Ohio, controlled by Republicans for more than 10 yrs, is in horrible economic shape. The more "conservative" policies they put in place, the worse in gets.

But the only state that might be doing worse is our neighbor to the immediate northwest, home of the Wolverines, which tends Democrat.

Is the conclusion we can draw that government really doesn't matter at all, when it comes to economic health?