Destroy The Young So The 80 Year Old Can Live

[Bill Call]

CDC statistics show that 80% of all COVID victims are 65 or older and had serious underling health issues.

Should we destroy the young to save them? Well, not actually save them, just give them a few more months to live.

Should we permanently destroy the world economy?

Bankrupt all business?

Bankrupt the future?

Destroy the food supply chain?

Destroy democratic government?

[Bridget Conant]

FALSE CHOICE

It’s NOT either or.

It’s NOT only over 65 year olds dying.

Face facts, the economy is going to suck for quite a while because rational people of all ages do not want to get an unknown virus that has long lasting sequelae. You can open it back up all you want but no sane person is going to a movie, taking a cruise, or attending a concert.

This is a once in a lifetime catastrophe that is going to hurt everyone in so many ways. How to deal with it with the least amount of death and suffering is paramount. We need a leader to pull us together and set us down a path of reasoned action based on the best science. We don’t have that leader so we are floundering.

All of these ridiculous suggestions that we need to choose to toss hundreds of thousands of people to the side to keep our consumer economy open is merely distraction because no one wants to make the tough calls that need to be made.

What sort of people are we that we speak so callously of the loss of life? When did the Republican Party, the supposed “pro-life” party suddenly decide life isn’t that important after all if it affected their pocketbook? Who decided that anyone over 65 was worthless, that they had nothing to give to society?

I’m not dying for the Dow.

[Bridget Conant]

Here are CDC death figures by age as of April 25.

There are deaths recorded in every age group.

Interestingly, deaths under age 65 totaled about 8000 people. That number will rise.

8000 people under 65 DEAD. That’s more than TWO TIMES the number killed in the Sept 11 attack. Those roughly 3000 killed prompted a huge reaction from the public and from that experience we, as a nation, accepted travel restrictions that still are in place, the creation of the TSA, and other controls and privacy restrictions.

Where’s the complaint about that, Bill?

The final total will likely be 3 times the current number of deaths. That may mean close to 25000 people UNDER the age of 65 dead from a pandemic that our country totally failed to bring under some control.

You are OK with that because your retirement account won’t take as big a hit, huh?

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[ryan costa]

Sweden is full of Swedes. America is full of Americans.
If America tries to utilize Swedish policies, it won't work, because Americans are not capable of being Swedes.

on the other hand, in places like brazil and india the death rate from more conventional contagious diseases is so high that covid 19 is less significant.

[Bridget Conant]

I wonder what the world would be like if the idea that those over 65 are “useless” and left to die prevailed.

How many works of art would never be made?

How many advances in science would have to wait?

How many less physicians would be available?

How many caregiving grandparents would cease to exist?

How many novels would not be written?

How much wisdom and experience would not be shared?

And for Bill:

How many leisure dollars would no longer pour into that all important economy?

[Mark Kindt]

I'm tempted to enter the argument, but...

It is largely unrelated to Lakewood.

There are no answers to Mr. Call's rhetorical questions.

The daily obituaries pretty much prove Ms. Conant's counter-argument.

The virus is a "Black Swan" event.

Both Mr. Call and Ms. Conant are well-versed in the civic life of Lakewood and understand the dismal situation that we now face with "disappeared" hospital/healthcare infrastructure and financial assets.

My hope is that our civic leaders will respond with conscientious fortitude and compassion for those at physical and economic risk.

This is going to be a long road for all of us.

The virus is uniquely non-partisan, but campaigns with stamina and vigor. To Mr. Costa's point, it could be worse.

From Lakewood's own 2018 healthcare analytics study we know that Lakewood has a large segment of its population over age 65.

As I have noted elsewhere, Lakewood has a number of communities and populations that are vulnerable to the effects of this virus.

No easy answers now.

[pj bennett]

SOYLENT GREEN.

I can't help, but be reminded of the 1973 dystopian film. It is set in 2022.

[Paul Schrimpf]

[quote="pj bennett"]SOYLENT GREEN.

I can't help, but be reminded of the 1973 dystopian film. It is set in 2022. [/quote]

Given the "youth vs. aged" discussion I thought you were going to go with Logan's Run ...

[Dan Alaimo]

Simply put:

What is the economic value of a human lfe?

[Amy Martin]

If Bill and his wife would like to sacrifice themselves for the sake of his kids and grandchildren, I have no problem with that.

[Michael Deneen]

If Bill and his wife would like to sacrifice themselves for the sake of his kids and grandchildren, I have no problem with that.

This raises a good point.
Is Bill (and other members of the #TrumpDeathCult) willing to personally work on the front lines during this crisis?
Are they willing to spend 10-15 hours per week making deliveries for at-risk people? Or perhaps volunteering at a health care facility?
Maybe taking a part time job at foodservice or retail establishment...where they can deal with fellow Trumpers who refuse to wear masks?

If the answer is "no", then they are no better than the Chicken Hawks who cheerled the Iraq War back in 2002 and 2003. (Remember "Freedom Fries"??)

It's easy to gamble with lives when YOURS is not one of them.

[Tim Liston]

Dan, that’s a very valid question. And Bill should not be beaten up for asking it either. The fact is, we’ve long-since decided as a society that we are very willing to sacrifice human lives for overall economic betterment. An example that comes to my mind most immediately is motor vehicle transportation. Cars. Somewhere along the way we decided that the substantial economic and other benefits of automobile transportation justifies the loss of at least 30,000 lives per year in crashes. Certainly nobody has ever come on the Deck insisting that automobiles be limited to 10 mph so that almost nobody dies in a crash. Car crash deaths are a sacrifice that as a society we decided to accept in exchange for our standard of living. But come on here and suggest that the same thought process should be applied to the coronavirus pandemic and in particular the severe economic fallout from the current lockdown, and your compassion is called into question. That’s quite unfortunate.

[Michael Deneen]

Certainly nobody has ever come on the Deck insisting that automobiles be limited to 10 mph so that almost nobody dies in a crash.

Social distancing is not like instituting a 10 mph speed limit.
It is a reasonable guideline, a la 25 and 35 mph speed limits....and 20 mph speed limits in school zones.

The #TrumpDeathCult is advocating for a complete elimination of all regulations.
They want ALL businesses open with NO face masks, no social distancing, etc.
That would be the equivalent of eliminating all traffic laws to allow drivers the "freedom" to go 80mph down Bunts Avenue.

[Bridget Conant]

Driving a car comes with RESPONSIBILITY attached.

You must take driver’s training. You must pass a test and obtain a license to operate a vehicle. You are required to carry liability insurance to protect others. You vehicle must be licensed yearly, and in some states, safety inspected.

So the privilege of driving is “restricted” by various requirements TO PROTECT OTHERS.

Thus “opening” of the economy without restrictions to protect others is WRONG.

Not taking action (like wearing a mask or limiting activity) to protect OTHERS is the height of arrogance.

Because you think you can do as you please, you may put others at risk. It’s only Christian-like to consider the welfare of others you might infect, but apparently all that Christian breast beating is just talk.

[pj bennett]

All along, medical experts have been saying, that they don't know if those who get infected with covid-19 will suffer any long-term effects. Some may; others might not.

Meanwhile last week, I read an article regarding children in the U.K. getting sick with symptoms resembling Kawasaki disease. (Inflammation in blood vessels. A bit like toxic shock syndrome.)

Then yesterday, I read of 12-15 children hospitalized in New York, exhibiting the same symptoms.
Ages range from 2 - 16 years in age.
I believe, that there is a case in California, as well.

Some of the children are on ventilators. To date, none have died.

Doctors are thinking, that these cases are linked to coronavirus, but they can't be sure.
Let's hope, that these cases are isolated.
Let's hope, that this is not another air-borne disease.

But, if more children do acquire this illness and the numbers begin to bloom, I wonder what the reaction will be?