10 Cents A Bag Fee/Tax

[Richard Baker]

In the "best interest of our environment and Lakewood citizens’ long-term health and wellbeing. is almost so bazaar it's laughable. When the City of Lakewood changed over from golf cart garbage pick up to automated garbage can pick up, costing taxpayers millions in capital with no reduction in personnel they later announced that "renewable and recyclable bags" [paper bags] must be used for yard waste rather than recyclable plastic cans that last forever. The council has just announced that these required yard waste paper bags are not in the best interest of our long-term health and wellbeing. What is in the best interest of the long-term health and wellbeing of the City of Lakewood is the remove these hypocrites who couldn’t be clerks at a gas station, from the Council in the next city elections.

[Jim O'Bryan]

In the "best interest of our environment and Lakewood citizens’ long-term health and wellbeing. is almost so bazaar it's laughable. When the City of Lakewood changed over from golf cart garbage pick up to automated garbage can pick up, costing taxpayers millions in capital with no reduction in personnel they later announced that "renewable and recyclable bags" [paper bags] must be used for yard waste rather than recyclable plastic cans that last forever. The council has just announced that these required yard waste paper bags are not in the best interest of our long-term health and wellbeing. What is in the best interest of the long-term health and wellbeing of the City of Lakewood is the remove these hypocrites who couldn’t be clerks at a gas station, from the Council in the next city elections.

Richard

Welcome to Lakewood, California. aka the indoctrination of new council members. I was a little over 8 years ago, the new boy on council was finally allowed to do something, that something was put his name on the BSL later found unconstitutional and costing Lakewood thousands in litigation, and has only been enforced rarely.

Today I watched 3 people get lunches to go, in the soon to be regulated bags. the other night I was watching lines of people bagging and double bagging their own groceries, many of them senior citizens, wondering if they realized it will soon cost them much more to buy groceries in Lakewood, and they will either have to charge themselves, of GE will have to hire more people to bag and be bag monitors, plus the restaurants, plus the stores, plus, plus, plus. Yet another reason to shop out of the city.

But at least we got a couple people on Council to believe they are changing and saving the world from itself.

I suppose that is much more important than honesty, transparency, our real healthcare system, crime and everything else.

.

[Michael Deneen]

Simple solution: Bring your recyclable bags when you shop.

Unfortunately science is real.....that's why we got rid of leaded gasoline many years ago. If right wing media had existed at the time, I'm sure they would have had all the GOP lemmings in an uproar.
And how did we ever survive the horror of government-mandated deposits on glass bottles?

This resolution is not law.....have no fear, the corporate stooges in the Cuyahoga Democratic Party Machine will make sure it won't happen. They spiked a vote for both the increased minimum wage AND the effort to stop the "Q Transformation" boondoggle.

SIDE NOTE: There really is a Lakewood, California.
I'm not sure why you consider "California" to be some sort of insult...it is the largest state in the union, and continues to grow (unlike Ohio, which is being strangled by the knuckle-dragging GOP).

[Mark Kindt]

Who is sponsoring this nonsense?

[Dan Alaimo]

Who is sponsoring this nonsense?

I think this is coming from our friends on the progressive left. Although I agree with them on most things, and enthusiastically support them, I respectfully disagree on others.
The plastic bag fee/tax is one. Another was that drug price issue that I discussed long and hard with Tristan, and took very seriously, but in the end I didn't see it working, especially for me, and voted against.

On plastic bags, the ones we pick up get plenty of reuse, whether for the two big dogs I walk twice a day, or for other things like using them as lunch/gym totes, or bringing them to Aldi's, where bags are not free. Before I was kicked out of volunteering at Kauffman Park because of my activism on the hospital issue, I would use them to fill the doggie bag stations. The "biodegradeable" dog waste bags are not much better in terms of environmental impact.

If any bags are left, they go back to the store's recycling bin.

I also see the argument from the seniors' point of view. The plastic bags are easier to handle than paper, or remembering to bring canvas sacks to the store.

And beyond that, my understanding is that the bags are very recyclable, if only people will take the time to return them to the recycle drop off points. My knowledge on this is some years old, and may be outdated. I'm open to hearing a rejoinder.

[james fitzgibbons]

Were does the money end up? Who administrates the law? How about mandating everyone brings their own bag, a canvas bag will never wear out? I agree we need to get rid of the plastic. It would be simple to implement, with no on going cost to maintain the program. Many people already bring their own canvas bags including me, Richard and Mike.

[james fitzgibbons]

Dan, what were you volunteering for at Andrews Field err Kaufman Park ? Who kicked you out? I would like to know. As you probably know I was active with SLH.

[Mark Kindt]

My understanding is that this does not relate to Lakewood, but relates to proposals at the County level.

[Michael Deneen]

Does the City of Lakewood really need more public interest litigation filed against it? The Third Amended Charter does not give the City the power to impose this fee or tax.Nor does the City have a general power under the Charter to do this.Any enactment like this would be very vulnerable to attack on those grounds, as well as an impermissible (unconstitutional) burden on interstate commerce.Yes, it might draw some positive national attention, but I can think of any number of national think tanks that might see this as a test case.The proposal is an absurdity. It is completely unenforceable. It's a future episode of Portlandia.

Did any of you actually read this before coming here to make comments?

This is not a Lakewood proposal...it is a resolution supporting the idea of Cuyahoga County adopting the fee. The city would play no role in this program.

It is an attempt to solve a non-problem.

Plastic bags are in fact a problem for the environment. Lake Erie is a vital resource for our city and county,

[mjkuhns]

So, I did not personally see it, but I have been told that one of the local outlets ran a headline completely misrepresenting this, and giving people the impression that Lakewood plans to implement a bag fee on its own.

For anyone who got that impression by that means, please be advised that as Mike just posted, it's inaccurate.

Any fee would only be implemented at a county-wide level, by county government. County Council is currently debating the details to see what, if anything, may have majority support. But proponents set up this web site, and Eric Sandy wrote this article about the plan outlines when it was introduced last year.

Beyond that, Lakewood's County Council Rep Dale Miller is one of the sponsors of this proposal. For what it's worth, I have found Councilman Miller pretty responsive to e-mails.

[Mark Kindt]

Please disregard ALL my posts on this topic (except this one). They were made prematurely. I apologize for any confusion. Sometimes the Internet just works that way.

[Dan Alaimo]

Dan, what were you volunteering for at Andrews Field err Kaufman Park ? Who kicked you out? I would like to know. As you probably know I was active with SLH.

Here's the post I wrote at the time.
http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... me+friends

For me it all circles back to the Mayor.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Simple solution: Bring your recyclable bags when you shop.

Unfortunately science is real.....that's why we got rid of leaded gasoline many years ago. If right wing media had existed at the time, I'm sure they would have had all the GOP lemmings in an uproar.
And how did we ever survive the horror of government-mandated deposits on glass bottles?

This resolution is not law.....have no fear, the corporate stooges in the Cuyahoga Democratic Party Machine will make sure it won't happen. They spiked a vote for both the increased minimum wage AND the effort to stop the "Q Transformation" boondoggle.

SIDE NOTE: There really is a Lakewood, California.
I'm not sure why you consider "California" to be some sort of insult...it is the largest state in the union, and continues to grow (unlike Ohio, which is being strangled by the knuckle-dragging GOP).

Mike

Side note: Yes I know, it was not an insult but a statement. Also Lakewood's in Colorado, (paper is the Observer), New Jersey and elsewhere.

I used California as some of their laws are extreme, when moved out of the state, not an insult. California has a unique set of problems and issues. I get it, that doesn;t mean they are needed elsewhere. Example water used to flush a toilet. Water is not an issue here, but try to get a toilet without California/desert flush limits.

I am not a corporate stooge, far from it, I would be I am more liberal than you in most things.

Get a hold of yourself.

.

[Richard Baker]

[quote="Richard Baker"]In the "best interest of our environment and Lakewood citizens’ long-term health and wellbeing. is almost so bazaar it's laughable. I failed to mention while racing sailboats offshore along Lakewood shore line, it not the plastic bags we see, it tens of plastic drink bottles that people throw away. In twenty years of racing off Lakewood shore line I never saw on paper bag. Why would I, any 2nd grader know that paper disintegrates in water when the built their first tub paper boat. The Council represent the people of Lakewood in name only, why would they support a County ordnance that stupid and doesn’t address the issues, plastic disposable bottles. It also attacks the lower income who have to make every penny count. The next election for Council will not be soon enough.

[Kate McCarthy]

Welcome to Lakewood, California. aka the indoctrination of new council members. I was a little over 8 years ago, the new boy on council was finally allowed to do something, that something was put his name on the BSL later found unconstitutional and costing Lakewood thousands in litigation, and has only been enforced rarely.

Today I watched 3 people get lunches to go, in the soon to be regulated bags. the other night I was watching lines of people bagging and double bagging their own groceries, many of them senior citizens, wondering if they realized it will soon cost them much more to buy groceries in Lakewood, and they will either have to charge themselves, of GE will have to hire more people to bag and be bag monitors, plus the restaurants, plus the stores, plus, plus, plus. Yet another reason to shop out of the city.

But at least we got a couple people on Council to believe they are changing and saving the world from itself.

I suppose that is much more important than honesty, transparency, our real healthcare system, crime and everything else.

Please give the new members of council a chance. Bullock hasn't changed from day one. He was always an opportunist first. Councilperson Rader told me Councilperson George insisted the BSL issue be moved to the Committee of the Whole, which is not indicative of a newbee just playing nice. Some on council can walk and chew gum at the same time. While largely symbolic, affirming a tax on plastic bags, with allowances for seniors and persons on food stamps, is not a terrible thing and doesn't preclude an earnest concern of more substantive issues, like honesty, transparency, etc.