Overheard one summer evening...

[Charyn Varkonyi]

As we were out and about one of these recent evenings, I had the opportunity to listen to a group of gentlemen talking about Lakewood.

There were a half dozen of them, middle aged (probably 45-55 if I had to guess), one I recognized a former employee of the city, one gentleman that has started a small business here that has grown significantly, and one was a man that stated that he had left Lakewood five years ago after growing up and spending the first half of his adult like here (the first two being lifelong residents). The other three I didn't know, nor did they state anything about how long they have lived in Lakewood.

ALL of them were discussing their plans to leave Lakewood within the next five years. Either when their house sold, retirement hit, children were done with college, etc.

All of them. It was very depressing - but I chose to sip my drink and listen a while to see WHY these seemingly successful, long-term (if not lifelong) residents (homeowners from my understanding) were so hot to leave.

The overriding theme? The city has no vision. There is no concrete plan anyone can point to that tells them WHAT Lakewood is going to do, HOW it is going to do it, or WHEN it will be done.

They were annoyed about the planters in the center of town when their suspensions were being torn apart on their own streets. They were bothered by over the top street projects (i.e. the brick pathways) when it was their belief that the environment around here made brick a less than optimum choice that would cost too much to maintain in the long haul - all the while watching their streets crumble even more. There was mention of federal money for streets being foolishly used - but I wasn't sure what they were referring about.....

They thought the parking lot was a good idea - felt those that opposed it were troublemakers and short sighted. Felt that it was the city's fault for allowing the bars to unruly and that they should lower the hammer on the problems through the levying of harsh, punitive fines.

These six men - who undoubtedly have families, dont believe that their property values are going to hold with the decline in housing code enforcement. They feel the administration is lax on rental property owners, which leads to poor building maintenance and even worse tenants. Two of them expressed that they were proud of their sons for buying houses outside of Lakewood (Westlake and Chagrin falls) and they felt that their children had taken a step up. Their pride was unmistakable- proud that by being able to purchase in these area their children had "lifted" themselves out of Lakewood.

Are the others encouraging their children to go elsewhere?

They felt that Lakewood was a difficult place to do business - but provided no examples.

They felt that the 17-21 crowd that roamed the street at night and congregated near those fancy planters, were disruptive, impolite, and threatening and wished for more police interaction with these groups to 'keep them in line'. They felt IHOP attracted drunken fools in the middle of the night - the hollering, screaming, and disruptive behavior of these groups made Lakewood feel (to them) unpleasant.

Now - I dont agree with all of their gripes, in fact I strongly disagree about some...

But if these six home owning family men are dedicated to leaving Lakewood (or have already left) - then I think we should look at why and discuss what we can, or should do about it.

This is an issue of Lakewood deciding what it wants to be. I would love to believe that we can have our cake and eat it to - but my very sad little experience tells me that it is unlikely. We (the residents) need to have a plan, or need to know what the plan is if one exists. We deserve at least that much for our money.

Again - these are the things I Observed and not necessarily reflective of my opinions.

Peace,
~Charyn

[Jim O'Bryan]

Charyn

A truly disturbing post.

I am not a fan of Amyway, but I had the rare pleasure of working for an Amyway "Pearl" and everyday we got the "Amyway message" which was always delivered with a little bit of stolen "Taoism" thrown it to make it a proper snake oil elixer. But because it was based of Taoist and Buddhist teaching it was always right.

"If you confess it, you possess it."

While they found it very easy to sit and talk about Lakewood problems and lack of vision not one, including you offer an alternative or a different vision. They all preferred to live of the welfare and thoughts of those working towards and dreaming of a better Lakewood.

Personally I would of taken them through the if you didn't vote then don't complain about the president conversation.

As you can imagine I hear this same stuff everywhere, to be honest, the mumblings of lost souls and bitter people. Let's use the easy target for the analogy, of teen kids and those problems. What do these things all have in common? Classical, Opera, Band, Orchestra, Big Band, Jazz, Swing, Soul, Rock, Folk, Electronic, Heavy Metal, and Rap? They were all hated but the listener's parents. I do not have kids, but I have to be honest I rather prefer the baggy pants to polester so tight that well you know. Baggy jeans or micro minis? Sneakers or platforms?

I was a complete punk as a teenager, as were 99% of the people I know on this publication. so I have to think we all raised the stress level of people around us.

I wished I had been there. I think they might find it interesting to know they are tens times more likely to be involved in a violent crime in the country than the city. i might have suggested a Jane Jacobs quote about busy streets are safe streets, and made them understand that serious crime is far easier with no one on the street, or with homes farther away.

I might have taken the time to ask them to walk through Lakewood to a coffee shop, or for ice cream and a walk around town. I might have stopped the baggy pant kid, and invited him for ice cream and a walk. Nothing a young person likes more than being taken seriously by an adult. Well maybe stealing their parents liquor.

I might have mentioned that a London based group found the Cleveland Region to be the most live-able in the US and 16th best in the world. That the Scene and Freetimes judged it to be the best suburb in that region. And asked how much better they needed it?

What troubles me most, is all this post and incident did was decrease the brand of Lakewood internationally as the yell is made and it now reverberates in the Lakewood Observer's Emerald Echo Canyon.

In another thread, I stated and maintained Low Self Esteem is Lakewood's single biggest problem. That and the uniformed uninspired residents.

.

[Joan Roberts]

I think we've all heard that kind of talk, and it truly can be depressing.

Perhaps the first question to ask people like the ones you overheard isn't, "why do you want to leave", it's "why are you staying?"

Certainly there's something that still says "home" to these people. Maybe it's the kids in the schools, maybe it's the house, maybe it's something more emotional.

The arguments the people you heard cited seemed to be more technical. Certainly "it's my home" SHOULD trump any of those.

My theory is that the "Lakewood lifestyle" will appeal to about 15-20 percent of the general population (the rest want guarantees of no crime, new houses, big closets, all-white schools, etc).

What's keeping them here? What can we understand about Lakewood's appeal that be used to counter the obvious (and in some cases, beyond anyone's control) negatives?

A big part of marketing (as opposed to "branding") is reinforcing to people that they've made the right choice. Is that something Lakewood does effectively?

I'm sorry, this seems esoteric to the point of navel-gazing. But at least it's putting depression to use.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

While they found it very easy to sit and talk about Lakewood problems and lack of vision not one, including you offer an alternative or a different vision

First of all, I was only reporting what I have seen and heard. In threads all over this board, as well as the other website whose name we dare not speak ( ) I have voiced my opinion on what I believe. You of all people know that I am not shy about what I feel are good and bad solutions, or about presenting my thoughts on what a solution many or may not be. So to take a shot at me for not contesting each and every one of their points was, in my opinion, unfair.

Would you be interested to know that one of these people worked for the city for almost 20 years trying to make a difference? Would you be interested to know that another lead a variety of citizens groups (total grass roots) on issues in the city? Would you be interested to know that one of them was a contributor to the Observer, thinking he could make a difference that way? Would you be interested to know that one of them is involved in the library?

You make a lot of assumptions that are not correct, Jim. For lack of writing ability and typing speed I didn't include every single detail of this, perhaps I should have... but then the message would have been diluted - that despite all of this, they are unhappy.

You see this as decreasing the brand... I see this as a revelation that allows us to confront the beast head on and provides a road map with which we STRENGTHEN the brand. Casting a light in a dark corner in one of the best ways to make a monster disappear - twenty years or so if parenting taught me that much!

I do agree with you COMPLETELY, that Lakewood suffers from a total lack of self-esteem. We think we dont measure up... We compare ourselves to other cities without realizing that there are other cities that hold US as the standard. But WHYYYYYYYY????????? I think these guys nailed a lot of things that concern a LOT of people.

You want to convince people that they are wrong about how they feel about the issues in Lakewood (for example parking)? Good luck - telling people their feelings are wrong rarely works no matter how logical your argument is.

This is a battle about how people feel - respect that, listen to that, dont tell them they are wrong, figure out why they feel that way and what will make them feel good! 10 to 1 it is streets, housing and police presence. Can you make the argument that all of these things are AOK - or getting better? sure you can... but that doesn't change how people FEEL. Arguments always feel bad

These were not uninformed, uninspired residents... some of them were people whose lives have been deeply ingrained in the Lakewood culture... other residents that are uninformed? Why are they not informed? What are we doing to change that - not just LO - but the city itself? Other residents that are uninspried? WHY are they uninspried? What motivates them, what is the rallying cry that will bring them out of thier shells?

Joan:

A big part of marketing (as opposed to "branding") is reinforcing to people that they've made the right choice. Is that something Lakewood does effectively?

You are absolutely dead on here. It is about making them 'feel' good about either buying a home here, or keeping a home here.

And in order to understand what will make the residents feel good, we have to know why they feel bad. I will say again, I dont think that this discussion dilutes the brand as much as it can shine a light on a good (if not great) path toward strengthening the brand.

FFT
~Charyn

[ryan costa]

It isn't politically correct to speak bluntly. But many people are worried about Lakewood becoming like Cleveland, like other suburbs have. Already most of the kids in Parma are Wiggers. No amount or choice of government initiatives can stop that from happening.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Bwahhh....

As a former Parma resident....I am just falling of my chair...

oh my.... (catching breath)

(still giggling)

OK - thats my cue to go tend to my garden to make our little piece of Lakewood heaven a little prettier....

Peace,
(still lol)
~Charyn

[ryan costa]

I am funniest son-of-bitch

[Kenneth Warren]

I will not make excuses for the total performance, politics and pressure within the city. Your post has given us a slice. Can you name the restaurant? Was it in Lakewood?

It sounds to me that whoever was speaking might have been doing so from class anxiety, racial phobia, personal perspective and suburban expectation.

People 45-55 often leave the Wood and need to construct their exit story.

Have these people, relieved of expenses related to the child rearing project, come to the point in their lives when they want to say to themselves I have finally made it and I want to turn a page, and I am now leaving Lakewood?

That's why I like to say, inspired by Ms. Roberts, that Lakewood is good enough for now.

The vision of/for Lakewood is being contested all the time.

I will vigorously contest the accounts of those bad mouths who speak simply from the uniformity of their own class and race bias, which would prefer another consumption model that is incompatible with the geography of Lakewood’s built environment.

Let them move. Let prices land where they will.

The good word about Lakewood will spread to the inflated coasts and people overjoyed to experience a place like this will inevitably settle here.

It’s really very simple.

Save one caveat. Beware the local real estate cabal that works hand and glove with the bad mouthers who will be ready snap up any choice bargains and rent to make a buck on low expectations before any artists and Bohos from the coasts get the chance to buy.

I have heard these beefs for the twenty two years I’ve lived in Lakewood. I have seen the sons of Ignatius and Irish Catholic families on the make leaving for Westlake for twenty years. It’s about class and privilege.

The Lakewood brand that is not quite preppy enough or Cheese Cake Factory enough for the consumption model to which rising self esteem and inflating hopes for material success have been yoked.

Lakewood is something else.

The vision is emerging through the consciousness that is raised through the Lakewood Observer.

If the civic agents and the bad mouthers were to rise to the occasion and put their issues on the line, in functional problem solving, flying in the face of fear with real names as we do here, maybe they would find cause for hope.

Twenty years ago, I listened to two old timers bad mouth Lakewood as they boogied to Rocky River because they objected to “Heinz 57 varieties.â€Â

[ryan costa]

This transition may be facilitated by rising relative scarcity of gasoline, regardless of ideals for or against "diversity" as a buzzword or reality.

even if it doesn't, the latter 20th century sunbelt model is just too absurd to exist. Globalism is just too absurd to exist.

[Charyn Varkonyi]

Ken:

I only knew thee of the six - and yes, they were gathered in Lakewood, where is not my place to say. If they should choose to come on Deck (one as I stated was a contributor to the paper), that the their choice - t his type of forum is not for everyone, so I dont think it fair to demand that they come here, and post. There are realistic and good reasons why some would choose not to.

As for your theory - three I cannot comment on, one I believe you are dead on about based upon other comments I chose not to include, but two you couldn't have been more wrong about... One of those two is in a mixed marriage and an activist for human rights.

As for the one that IS suffering from class anxiety and bigotry....

I am with you... "Don't let the door hit you on the way out"

(oh- and he was the loudest about the kids, although the others were disturbed by them as well - not everyone wants to hang out with t he counter culture crowd).

On t he whole, though, you post speaks very directly to the point that Lakewood is reinventing itself and that is a cause for much of the anxiety amongst residents of all ages. I still see the big questions remaining thought: What does Lakewood want to become?

OK - I am really off to the garden now... Have a great weekend all!!

Peace,
Charyn

[Stan Austin]

The gentlemen you overheard, Charyn sound like some grousing middle aged guys.
I think Ken's experience in some other cities is far more the norm for the 21st century in progrssive urban centers.
This applies internationally as well as here in the US.
I think these guys are wailing the "rust belt blues" not necessarily the Lakewood blues.
I, myself, prefer the newer look and experience of Lakewood including the Observer.
I also prefer the Smart Car Lakewood to the Mercury Grand Marquis of Westlake.
Stan Austin

[Kenneth Warren]

Charyn:

Thanks for the response. I am glad some of what I posted checks out with your lens and that you took the time to contest the contestable in mine.

Segments of Lakewood are struggling to make sense of the culture, identity and values in the face of churn and economic pressure.

It would seem to me that a concensus on single Lakewood vision satisfying all people is impossible to attain. The elite class segment will attempt to impose its vision, which may not hold. When it does not they may experience disenchantment in the Wood.

We see that here on the LO Deck. Still we strive to work together cobbling a critical and functional sense of who, what, why, how, where.

Now that's a distinctive quality of this place. It's not happening in other places.

I just returned from a national conference in New Orleans and spoke to people from all over the county about space for civic discourse and levels of participation in such things as citizen journalism ala LO etc.

It's crucial that we examine what is happening here and in other places near and far to get a comparative sense of our qualitiies, assets, liabilities.

I would say Lakewood is for those who enjoy the burning, churning earth of a place that is neither wildly liberal and progressive, because the cash flow doesn't advance such privileged values, nor rabidly Republican and conservative. As Jim O'Bryan might say that because there not enough to conserve.

So Lakewood is still a densely populated middle ground of flux and accomodations where you'll never have it your way, like at Burger King.

So many people will shop elsewhere.

Sometimes people will feel compelled to differentiate further along class, ethnic, income, political lines, and leave Lakewood. Birds of a feather flocking together.

You make an interesting point about the disatisfied assembly:

"One of those two is in a mixed marriage and an activist for human rights."

It would seem to me that for a person coming from an open, inclusive human rights perspective that Lakewood might be less accepting, less progressive, less open and inclusive than a more upscale, middle class privileged place, and perhaps less so than expected now that he is here.

There are many edges to the identities and values now represented in Lakewood. No one identity is in evident ascent. If anything the diversity is growing and the mid-scale white demo is uncertain about the vision of the place.

This comes after the progressive, Dennis Dunn smoke free upscale Lakewood brand building, going back the days of the Rainbow Flag at City Hall controversy, has collasped.

Lakewood seems to have retrenched a bit from the open and symbolic display of such progressive inclusivity.

That might make sense given the lower classes and their need to conserve values and create order within the experience of economic and social stress.

Throw in the War in Iraq and the fact that Lakewood's working class blood is serving the nation. This too makes for a shift toward the patriotic and the conservative.

In terms of racial and ethic tensions on the ground, I would contend that Lakewood's Catholic conservative blue collar ethnic population, which is the one that has been leaving or threatening to do so, is challenged by both the African American and the white Appalachian/Nascar/Pitbull Jackson Democrat working class Cleveland influx.

We need to create energetic and informed social norms with the newcomers.

For Lakewood to re-invent itself with effective norms that engage each segment is hard work. Some of it is done in public schools and public institutions. Some of it is done in churches and neighborhoods. But it is work. And people tire, especially when their values must inevitably be compromised.

What do all the people who don't speak English think about Lakewood?
I'd bet they think that when they make it they will be leaving Lakewood too.

Many years ago a woman from New York who lived in Winton Place told me that the one thing I should never forget about Lakewood, no matter how progressive things might seem, is that it is ultimately a working class place.

I believe the social formations and cash flows that drive the working class stigma is what beneath it all informs the self-esteem issue and the resistance to hierarchy and privilege. In a sense Issue 47 promised a shopping experience that would allow Lakewood to go one up on itself. Success hinged on the assumption shoppers who had already gone one up and left the working class 'Wood would come back to shop here.

Again these are class matters.

Lakewoodites often tell me about how grand the corporate upscale shopping experience is in Croker Park.

Frank Mills from Urban Repair told me he has been doing shopper inquiries between the Dollar Tree in Lakewood and Rocky River. He was amazed at how many Lakewoodites shop in the Rocky River Dollar Tree.

One black couple from Lakewood told him they come to the Rocky River Dollar Tree because they don't shop in filth.

What are the class based expectations of store management when they are running a Lakewood shop versus a Rocky River or Westlake Shop?

That Lakewood is mid-scale, down-scale, working class, and that good enough is OK?

It seems to me that so much is about class and how shopping creates a pecking order for people to go one up or one down.

Our challenge is to figure ways out that work for people who want to live in Lakewood.

Kenneth Warren

[Jim O'Bryan]

... As Jim O'Bryan might say that because there not enough to conserve.

Kenneth Warren

Ken

Cool word jazz, dig those licks.

However the quote and commetn is so off what I said or meant.

"I find myself getting more conservative with the more I have to conserve."

It means nothing more than this.


peace

[Kenneth Warren]

Easy Bear.

Paws off.

It's too hot for growling.

I said "might say."

I know that you are totally predisposed to speak for yourself and conserve only what you have.

I wanted to see if the Bear could bend and flex with a change in syntax.

Back to the honey pot.

Kenneth Warren

[john crino]

In the last 24 hours my wife and I have spoken to three seperate couples.
One lives in Lkaewood and was looking to move to RR or Bay for the schools. They have been looking for a while but have recently decided to buy a different house and stay in Lakewood because "Bay and RR are just not Lakewood". Lakewood is unique in so many ways.
Second couple just got married on Friday and have bought a house on Hall street after years in kent. Third couple just moved back to Lakewood after a few years in Phoenix and they also bought a house. So, that is 3 positive Lakewood stories in 24hours, pretty good for not searching them out.
As for the "lakewood 6" on their way out, so be it. We live in a very transient time now, people feel as they finish one stage of life and prepare for the next , this includes often a new local as part of the equation, just as it was for the 3 couples now living in lakewood.