Gentrification? Good? Bad?

[Jim O'Bryan]

This is a topic that was very hot back in the early days of the Observer, and it has boiled up again from time to time.

Everyone wants their neighborhood, community, area better, nicer, safer whatever the desire.

But at what cost? Jimmy Rokakis, at the Cuyahoga County Land Bank, with others put together a program that showed conclusively, abandoned, run down, and bad homes, drag down property value of everything around them. Through they they receive money to buy and tear down homes, if they cannot be saved. Lakewood's own land bank grabbed the theory, as many other communities have with the thought easier to bank, tear down and "repurpose."

That is one aspect of gentrification, something Lori is looking at in Lakewood, Ohio City, Tremont, etc.

Another aspect of gentrification is when someone takes a business district, and builds homes near them. This reared it ugly head here in Lakewood. When Rockport built "luxury" condos across the street from the busiest towing company on the West Side, Baker Motors. New "upscale" residents complained about the noise associated with tow trucks, especially late at night. Those that remember Baker Motors remember 90% of their work, was towing from lots and accidents late at night. The question becomes, is the "upscale" new owner right with his complaints? Who came first? Who has rights and who doesn't? It gets complicated and always causes issues. That ended with Lakewood pulling their contracts from Baker Motors, which no longer exists. City going to Kuffner, not near Lakewood, not a Lakewood business, but not across from the "high-end" condos on Detroit.

This is different from the guy that complained about basketball noise. Though he also called the city and the city shut down the courts, like with Baker Motors.

So with the new McKinley Structures. They are built next to three successful bars, The Beck Center which has an outdoor stage.

Who wins that argument, when it happens. Sloane Subway built near Marina, when the parties hit in the summer, can they complain. Could boat owners be hit with nuisance violations? Could the Rush Inn, be closed because they continue doing business as they have since the 80s?

Let's not forget, Ward 1, was looking at voting themselves dry because of all of the drunks caused by the new bar economy.

In the coming weeks, I am bringing in people and we will look at Gentrification, who wins, who loses.

.

[Peter Grossetti]

This is different from the guy that complained about basketball noise.
.

More from me on gentrification later. But (related) the guy that complained about basketball noise was more concerned about who was making the basketball noise than the actual noise itself.

gen·tri·fi·ca·tion
noun
the process of renovating and improving a house or district so that it conforms to middle-class taste.
"an area undergoing rapid gentrification"
the process of making a person or activity more refined or polite.
"soccer has undergone gentrification"

[Bridget Conant]

conforms to middle class taste

This makes think of a particularly troubling "public information" meeting regarding the West End project during the pre-election run up.

It was held at the Clifton Beach House and I attended. Someone asked why we needed to use eminent domain and why the project was so important. The "cheerleader" said, " there are people with money that want to live along the river valley and those homeowners won't move."

Well guess what, there already WERE people who lived there, who owned homes and invested in the area long before some developer saw the possibilities and tried to sink their claws into that land.

I was appalled and sickened at what I heard, as were several of my neighbors who attended and all recall the spectacle, BTW.

That same speaker ended up being a founder and prominent member of LakewoodAlive, which is why they've never gotten one penny from me.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I was appalled and sickened at what I heard, as were several of my neighbors who attended and all recall the spectacle, BTW.
That same speaker ended up being a founder and prominent member of LakewoodAlive, which is why they've never gotten one penny from me.

Bridget

Slightly off topic. That was an effort to turn 1,500 residents homes, into a strip mall. Hardly gentrification.

What I have never understood about the efforts of Lakewood hidden force, commercial economic development is not illegal, and it is a great discussion. I have been watching it for decades and still undecided. Of course people would have to be honest, tell the truth, and be open to discussion which is not their way.

But every time a built out city, makes moves or changes in balance, the discussion needs to be had, and has to be done openly.

It was an open discussion between Councilman Butler, Councilman Dever, residents and bar owners that stopped Ward 1 from going dry, and killing the bar scene.

Of course with most of the current regime, honesty, transparency, honest discussion does not exist.

.

[Bridget Conant]

I believe it WAS an attempt to modify the neighborhood - to replace apartment dwellings and modest homes with an upscale "lifestyle center" consisting of shopping and higher end condos. That was the proposal.

That IS gentrification in that it displaces those of lower income levels and replaces them with upper classes.

The idea was that those condos would bring in people with higher incomes who had more money to spend both on the housing and in the city.

And apparently, we were supposed to be excited to bring those higher income people in, even if it was at the expense of pushing out people that didn't want to go.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I really want to underline, I am not looking to do anything with this discussion than look at the very real outcomes of gentrification, when they go beyond spit and polish.

Everyone wants a city/community better, everyone. Everyone has a different idea of what that is.

From no bars to all bars, from no parks to all park.

The city gets an offer to drastically change 2 lots from industrial to residential. What happens?

When bars do not increase but occupancy doubles, and some say they can no longer park in front of their homes, what happens?

Do residents pay more for police, or the people causing the issue.

As the strip mall was brought up. Residential, good property values, low middle class jobs, but jobs, but increase traffic, increased burden on tax payers, increase chance for crimes of all sorts putting a strain on courts, needs to be discussed and understood.

Lat's break the mold...
SERIOUSLY think of this issue. DUIs good or bad for Lakewood? Outside of the obvious, is it a money maker? Do more bars increase DUIs or not? Do DUIs not increase because police are busy with other DUIs? Who knows?

Straight up another question, no answer. Did residents on Woodward have a right to know as soon as possible, there would be a McDonalds, and drive through on their street?

And now here is the problem. If I live nowhere near it, but I benefit how does that figure into the discussion, and our rights?

This has always been one of the many 800lb gorillas in the Lakewood room, people hate to talk about.



.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I believe it WAS an attempt to modify the neighborhood - to replace apartment dwellings and modest homes with an upscale "lifestyle center" consisting of shopping and higher end condos. That was the proposal.

That IS gentrification in that it displaces those of lower income levels and replaces them with upper classes.

The idea was that those condos would bring in people with higher incomes who had more money to spend both on the housing and in the city.

And apparently, we were supposed to be excited to bring those higher income people in, even if it was at the expense of pushing out people that didn't want to go.

Point of this discussion now.

Donner Party, table of 15, serving 15,000


.

[mjkuhns]

Re: on- or off-topic, I confess that I'm slightly uncertain about the scope of this thread.

Jim, could you provide some more further definition for how you use the term "gentrification?"

As explanation, this is a subject I have read many many articles about over the years. My cumulative impression has been that in most of them, the term is used to mean: a lower-income neighborhood or larger area becoming popular, followed by newcomers with more money bidding up local real estate, which then prices some residents out of what they regarded as their community. All kinds of other economic and cultural grievances get swept into it, but gentrification as I have come to understand it is fundamentally about repopulation via price pressure.

I could make some reflections on that, but I'm not sure that it's really the focus of this gentrification thread. I'm not sure what is, though; while Mr. Grossetti's formal definition suggests my own concept of gentrification may be eccentric, it seems of limited help in nailing down an alternative. (Given that this is America, and a vast range of incomes choose to identify as middle class, the notion of middle-class tastes seems fuzzy.)

So… what's all this then?

[Stan Austin]

To pick up on Matt's post-- when does home improvement morph into gentrification?

[Patrick Wadden]

Re: on- or off-topic, I confess that I'm slightly uncertain about the scope of this thread.

Jim, could you provide some more further definition for how you use the term "gentrification?"

As explanation, this is a subject I have read many many articles about over the years. My cumulative impression has been that in most of them, the term is used to mean: a lower-income neighborhood or larger area becoming popular, followed by newcomers with more money bidding up local real estate, which then prices some residents out of what they regarded as their community. All kinds of other economic and cultural grievances get swept into it, but gentrification as I have come to understand it is fundamentally about repopulation via price pressure.

I could make some reflections on that, but I'm not sure that it's really the focus of this gentrification thread. I'm not sure what is, though; while Mr. Grossetti's formal definition suggests my own concept of gentrification may be eccentric, it seems of limited help in nailing down an alternative. (Given that this is America, and a vast range of incomes choose to identify as middle class, the notion of middle-class tastes seems fuzzy.)

So… what's all this then?

Three posts in and This has already been framed in a way that will only lead to the inevitable place that all threads on the deck lead.

Will this be a thread about the pros and cons of gentrification?

I have read a ton on this subject and seen it first hand in Charlestown in Boston.

First things first and Mr Kuhn touched on this. What is the definition of gentrification. You ask three people and you will get three different answers. The definition posted earlier in this thread is extremely narrow. Not wrong just narrow.

Displaced. You're going to want to go ahead and define that word as well before having any kind of substantive talk about gentrification.

It will be interesting to follow this thread.

[Peter Grossetti]

The definition I posted was the first one I found doing a Google search. And others I've seen are pretty much the same.

Perhaps a more nuanced question is: "what's your definition of 'better?' "

[Brian Essi]

Re: on- or off-topic, I confess that I'm slightly uncertain about the scope of this thread.

Jim, could you provide some more further definition for how you use the term "gentrification?"

As explanation, this is a subject I have read many many articles about over the years. My cumulative impression has been that in most of them, the term is used to mean: a lower-income neighborhood or larger area becoming popular, followed by newcomers with more money bidding up local real estate, which then prices some residents out of what they regarded as their community. All kinds of other economic and cultural grievances get swept into it, but gentrification as I have come to understand it is fundamentally about repopulation via price pressure.

I could make some reflections on that, but I'm not sure that it's really the focus of this gentrification thread. I'm not sure what is, though; while Mr. Grossetti's formal definition suggests my own concept of gentrification may be eccentric, it seems of limited help in nailing down an alternative. (Given that this is America, and a vast range of incomes choose to identify as middle class, the notion of middle-class tastes seems fuzzy.)

So… what's all this then?

Three posts in and This has already been framed in a way that will only lead to the inevitable place that all threads on the deck lead.

Will this be a thread about the pros and cons of gentrification?

I have read a ton on this subject and seen it first hand in Charlestown in Boston.

First things first and Mr Kuhn touched on this. What is the definition of gentrification. You ask three people and you will get three different answers. The definition posted earlier in this thread is extremely narrow. Not wrong just narrow.

Displaced. You're going to want to go ahead and define that word as well before having any kind of substantive talk about gentrification.

It will be interesting to follow this thread.

Happy New Year Mr. Wadden.

I am relieved you are with us and will be monitoring things.

I so miss the void left by Mr. Rossen' s oversight.

[Peter Grossetti]

How does a community truly become "better?"

Through gentrification? That is by replacing low-income residents with middle- and high-income residents? (Which in my opinion is the heartless, "fuck them, I want mine" approach.) Or does a compassionate community engage social service agencies in order to help lift low-income families/residents up to a "better" station in life?

[james fitzgibbons]

AMEN!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Three posts in and This has already been framed in a way that will only lead to the inevitable place that all threads on the deck lead.

Will this be a thread about the pros and cons of gentrification?

I have read a ton on this subject and seen it first hand in Charlestown in Boston.

First things first and Mr Kuhn touched on this. What is the definition of gentrification. You ask three people and you will get three different answers. The definition posted earlier in this thread is extremely narrow. Not wrong just narrow.

Displaced. You're going to want to go ahead and define that word as well before having any kind of substantive talk about gentrification.

It will be interesting to follow this thread.

Patrick

No one controls anything here, I hope you know that now. If people take it there(?) that is them, not the Deck. One would think you don't want it to go there (?) so take it where you like, this is the nature of the beast. There is no "Observer," no master plan, just Observers. Don't believe the hype.

Have you read Jane Jacobs?

I would love to talk about Boston and other successful, and maybe some less successful. To me, it is as interesting as any topic in a city. I am not familiar with Charlestown, but will check it out. I have some stuff on various project in Ohio and the county, and also some people from Levin Urban Studies willing to jump in. If you do a search for Gentrification, you will find some amazing threads already.

Gentrification, I would say let's not worry of the exact definition as it is different for everyone, but the essence of rights, history, best use, etc. Both the good and the bad.

.