CLE+ Guilty of?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Ohio has 4 of the top ten FASTEST DYING cities in America.

Three of them are in CLE+ Zone which claims to be rebuilding this area, and helping to save it.

America's Fastest-Dying Cities

By Joshua Zumbrun, Forbes.com
Aug 5th, 2008

Where's it worst? Ohio, according to our analysis, which racked up four of the 10 cities on our list: Youngstown, Canton, Dayton and Cleveland. The runner-up is Michigan, with two cities--Detroit and Flint--making the ranking...

...None of these cities now face the huge declines in real estate prices seen by Phoenix, Miami or Las Vegas, where the Case-Shiller Home Price Index shows nearly 30% declines from a year ago. Detroit is off only about 15%, Cleveland only 8%. Don't call it a bright spot. Prices never went up in the first place.

http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/ameri ... ities.html

As "regionalists" try to strip us of our identity and self rule, do we really have to tie ourselves to the Titanic known as Cleveland, Canton, Youngstown, Akron?


FWIW



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[Shawn Juris]

Or is there strength in numbers and is pulling together the better option?

[Jim DeVito]

Shawn you are right there is strength in numbers. However I do not think we have the numbers. Cleveland is such a debacle that most of it's citizens just want to make a little bit of money so they can get out.

Unless CLE+ is going to totally revamp the city's schools and funding sources, then they are doing no good. You can throw all the fancy projects and economic development lingo you want. However in the end the only thing that is going to save Cleveland is an education system where more than half the students graduate.

If you do not fix the education system then the only that are still going to be in Cleveland are the one who do not have the means to leave. Nobody wants to move to a city that they can not send their kids to school in.

[Missy Limkemann]

The schools in Cleveland are terrible. That is the main reason I left the city. They had no program for my son's needs, and they kept insisting on putting him in a regular class. I see that all the time with kids there, and they fall further and further beind. I booked it out of there as fast as I could. (basically when this was house at a point where we could live in it)

Cleveland needs to revamp a lot of things. Having all those empty high rise buildings in downtown with all the tax abatements is killing them.

I think there could be strength in numbers, I just dont see the numbers there.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Or is there strength in numbers and is pulling together the better option?

Shawn

Strength in numbers didn't help on the Titanic. also it would seem that regionalism is working not only against the city of Lakewood but many other cities in the region.

I would ask what has CLE+ or any of their many "spinoffs" have accomplished? Haven't saved anything yet. According to Forbes, just sinking faster.

I go back to the boat analogy. You want to leap clear of the vacum that happens as it goes down the drink.


FWIW



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[Jeff Dreger]

I don't know about CLE+ or other attempts at "regionalism", but clearly we are tied to Cleveland and the rest of northeast Ohio to some degree and while it might be an overstatement or oversimplification to say it, certainly "as goes Cleveland, so goes northeast Ohio" has a lot of truth to it. I chose Lakewood over other cities for a number of reasons, but the status of the region and the city of Cleveland in particular is very disconcerting. I sure hope Cleveland isn't the Titanic becasue I don't want to find myself adrift in the middle of nowhere if it goes down.

[ryan costa]

hope is on the way. a county tax will help pay for a new medical mart.

It is a new kind of convention center. It is a convention center they
call a “medical martâ€￾. It is just another convention center. There’s
enough going on at the river front already. Medical professionals
probably don’t want to run into the goons and boneheads that hang out around tower city.

They should build this near the theatre district. It is closer to the big hospitals and Universities. and closer to the theatre district. Medical mart folks can always take the euclid corridor to tower city if they want to hang out with the goons and boneheads at tower city. I am one of the goons and boneheads at tower city.

Lakewood police are excellent at chasing dogs out of the wrong parks. But the lawyers haven't been able to develop the right laws that would allow them to chase out the wrong kind of teenagers from parks and shopping centers and schools. Once there is a new Convention Center all of the teenagers will be inspired to obtain jobs in healthcare. People will feel good about moving back into cleveland, and everyone's property values will go up.

[Shawn Juris]

To the original claim or suggestion by Jim, that CLE + is somehow to blame for a Forbes rating is ridiculous. Let's look at what that claim would assume. 1. The Forbes rating would have to be measuring results which could be confined to the period that CLE + has been active. 2. That CLE+ promised immediate results. 3. That the discussion of regionalism was the cause behind the effect of being deemed a dying city (just the talk not action, but talk). Now I ask what's more logical, that CLE+ was formed in response to the trend that the area is falling behind or that because of CLE+ these 3 cities suddenly started "dying"?
Now to answer the original question which when we remove the flare for the dramatics, Does Lakewood rely on these 3 cities; Cleveland, Youngstown, Akron? Yes in varying degrees we do. We are a bedroom community with little industry and few jobs that do not rely on the population (meaning we don't export much we are a barter economy where the bars/restaurants/gas stations/hair salons/schools/etc rely on the residents and would cease to do business if the resident base dissappeared). Now, unless Lakewood is willing and committed to attracting businesses that export their goods and services and start to build some sort of a base of business that doesn't just take from the residents (which is most evident in the fact that our largest employers include the city and schools) and cycle the money around without creating new income then we will continue to rely on Cleveland, Youngstown, Akron and more realistically all the exburb communities that are put down because they've somehow sold out by finding ways to be self sufficient and thrive more than Lakewood.
Lakewood has a choice but it's unrealistic to expect that a self supporting economic base will happen quickly. It's also unrealistic to think that a bedroom community can survive without the rest of the house (Cleveland and the supporting suburbs that keep the paychecks coming in). If the house needs work to attract more jobs then CLE+ seems a good model. The details of regionalism I believe belong in another thread but I certainly do not blame a possible treatment for the disease.

[dl meckes]

Has the leadership in Cleveland moved the city forward in the past 30 years?
How about the past five years?

We keep going back to the same people to move us forward.

It hasn't been working.

[Charyn Compeau]

The more probing question (IMO) is why are people leaving?

Its not the weather (Chicago? New York, Seattle - ewww all three)

We have great natural resources and great arts and great education and great health care facilities.

So why leave?

I moved to PA due to circumstances beyond my control - but would have stayed in NEO had I been the King of the World with unlimited power to do as I l like. And interestingly, at our yard sale today I met no less than six families that moved out from NEO to Western PA.

I dont believe regionalism is the answer; however, I DO believe that the success of NEO is very important in the Lakewood Success Equation.

Unless, of course, Lakewood could annex a part of the western Cleveland border to build up a sustainable manufacturing base.....

Lakewood eats Cleveland and recreates the fabric of NEO...now THATS a thought

~Charyn

PS - jobs, taxes, family and cost of living were the few reasons people gave for why they moved here when I asked - but this is highly anecdotal considering I only had time to really chat with about three of the couples....

[Bill Call]

The schools in Cleveland are terrible. That is the main reason I left the city.

When people say they move to a city for better schools what they mean is a better learning and living environment. That environment includes, buildings and teachers and aides and administrators and students. And it is mostly the students.

Cleveland Heights use to brag about the quality of their schools. They still spend more money than anyone else, they sitll have a great teaching staff and they still have nice buildings but the educational achievement is down at the bottom.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Unless, of course, Lakewood could annex a part of the western Cleveland border to build up a sustainable manufacturing base.....

I nearly had a heart attack when I read this.

Not so much as a manufacturing base, but certainly a base for our big box stores, jail, and other developments.

We would have to make our move soon before the redevelopment happens there.


Shawn

The facts are the growing going on in Celveland which is hardly anything has more to do with CDCs, NDCs, Cleveland Foundation, Gund Foundation, that a group of so called "regionalists" that hide under various names one being CLE+.

The group has been around longer than the Observer, and I am hard pressed to think of any big moments for them. Possibly when Mr. Morrison cut the city of Youngstown in half! Leaving one half empty.

While you and I have discussed managing decline before, look at the facts. Good weather, 4 seasons, many things to do, living on almost any house and property you can imagine outside of desert or island. Low cost of living. Time Zone that is perfect for world wide business. Energized citizens, colleges and universities, fast commute, Cost of living that has to be among some of the lowest in the country. FRESH WATER. and tax abatements through out the "region."

Working together to buy commodities, a good idea, to run a region, foolish without any merit.

Still waiting to hear how a new factory in Youngstown helps Cleveland?


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