Homeowner's Associations

Shawn Juris · Post by **Shawn Juris** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:17 am

If a group of neighbors got together and chose to form an association to maintain/increase their property values and self regulate their immediate surroundings, what obstacles would they face? Seems that normally these homeowner's or condo associations are formed when by the developer and buyers need to be notified prior to purchase, is it possible to gradually implement something in an existing community though? The expectations and rules would seem a challenge to enforce, but if with membership came privileges like say discounted rates on contractor costs for replacing roofs and sidewalks and being able to participate in social events, then maybe compliance wouldn't be too bad.

Missy Limkemann · Post by **Missy Limkemann** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:46 am

I used to work for attorneys who strictly did homeowner's associations and condo law. Personally I would run far away from it all. When I buy a home, and spend as much as I did on this house, I would love to be able to plant flowers, put up a fence etc etc without someone telling me if I can or can't. Dealing with a city if one thing, dealing with a "board"is another.
There are many rules that govern them too. You have to draft your papers, bylaws amendments etc etc.
a good website to get started...
http://www.ohiocondolaw.com/

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:53 am

How legally binding are the bylaws set by these boards? If I were to build a fence that complied with every city law but violated some bylaw that some board set up. What kind of actions could they take against me? Personally I would make it my point to build that fence. Is that really the best way to spend you time and effort to "take care of your area". Do we need more rules and regulations to govern how we use our personal property? Sounds pretty elitist to me. There seems to be plenty of neighborhoods doing just fine with out such bureaucratic crap.

Can I ask Shawn, Why you feel this is the next step?

Missy Limkemann · Post by **Missy Limkemann** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:04 am

they would make you take it down. i have seen court cases where an owner put up a fence. got the permit from the city, not knowing you needed one from the "board" and we sent letters to state that they did not follow proper procedure etc etc. Court case came, fence came down. The owner lost all that money and their fence.
Just like building a deck in your back yard. You not only need your city's permission but your "boards" permission as well. Again have seen them come down too. And if you dont pay your "association" fees the "board" can put a lien on your house and it can go to forclosure just from the "fees" alone. Granted I am sure there are some "good" things about them, I have just seen the worst of the worst and know the laws and bylaws. One of those "I just know too much so I cant turn back" sort of things....LOL.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:22 am

I grew up in suburbia. I remember two incidents that were a pain for my parents. One was doing new landscaping and the other was painting the house. The approval process was a pain and took longer than necessary and my mom's first choices were not allowed. I know that I would never want to live somewhere where I had to deal with a bunch of telling me what color pallets are best suited for the neighborhood or what type of lawn ornaments I can put out. I understand that they can work to keep neighborhoods looking nice, the only thing is often that means homogenous neighborhoods and that isn't Lakewood.

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:50 am

I am sorry but that sounds pretty dumb. You should not be allowed to set up sudo governments within city limits.

Brad Hutchison · Post by **Brad Hutchison** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:46 am

These associations always seem to fall into the hands of some facist that wants to live in a gingerbread house neighborhood and tell everyone what to do.

My sister-in-law in Strongsville got into a battle in her development because all the old people wanted to dismantle the playground equipment in the square so children wouldn't play near their houses.

But, to Shawn's broader point, I wonder if a roofer, plumber, etc. would give a "group rate" to an association, without members having to abide by crazy bylaws about how long their grass has to be.

Shawn Juris · Post by **Shawn Juris** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:16 am

Is a sudo government based on some kind of word puzzle. I'm not familiar with what you mean Jim. Then again maybe it's something that elitists wouldn't understand.
At any rate, within a neighborhood of 50-60 households wouldn't there be certain standards? For instance the association could take greater control of enforcing good citizen standards like; no ghetto doorbells (the car that pulls into a driveway and just honks rather than getting out and ringing the bell or calling the person on their cell phone), cutting your grass, taking their empty trash cans in after the city does their pickup, maintaining the homes and sidewalks within the guidelines set out by the city but rarely enforced (which through a group discount and recommendations may actually be less expensive than doing repairs outside of the association). Would there really be a majority of residents who defend unnecessary noise, unkempt yards, and run down properties? Choice in color preference is one thing but there are certainly some things that go beyond taste and are more about doing the right thing or excusing laziness. While there clearly is a tremendous value placed on individuality in Lakewood, it's ironic that so many of the houses look alike. The difference more times than not is which owners take care of their property and which ones let it go to crap.
Sure, some associations may turn neighborhood into cookie cutter suburbia. But it should also be noted that cookie cutter suburbia have higher property values than eclectic, free for all Lakewood. So maybe it's elitist to be concerned about property values, high taxes and other things that catch my interest. But those that scoff at these things would be labeled what?
I see this being the next step beyond neighborhood watches. Condo and homeowners associations have been around long enough to take what works, tweak what doesn't and innovate it just enough to be effective. While the reaction seems to be fear of losing some freedom of expression, I'm surprised that this wasn't taken as a way to leverage the absentee landlord that seems to be criminalized so often.
There certainly are differences between neighborhoods which is why more localized standards makes sense than sweeping decisions which effect all of Lakewood. If one part of Lakewood is okay with certain behaviors and level of upkeep, fine. But if my neighborhood expects something more I'd rather not have to rely on City Hall to follow up. But maybe it's "dumb" to actually want to be part of the solution and not just rely on government to take care of me.

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:25 am

Shawn Juris wrote: Sure, some associations may turn neighborhood into cookie cutter suburbia. But it should also be noted that cookie cutter suburbia have higher property values than eclectic, free for all Lakewood. So maybe it's elitist to be concerned about property values, high taxes and other things that catch my interest. But those that scoff at these things would be labeled what?

I have no desire for Lakewood to become one of those communities, even if it meant higher housing values. If I wanted any of that, if I wanted to belong to a homeowners association I certainly wouldn't be living in Lakewood. I think that the way to solve issues of unkept houses and ghetto neighbors is to stay on top of our local government and remind them that we have ordinances that cover most of these issues and that it is their job to make sure laws are enforced.

Missy Limkemann · Post by **Missy Limkemann** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:31 pm

Agree with you Danielle...if I wanted to live in that type of neighborhood then I would have bought my house there. And not every HOA or Condo is a dream, trust me they have "ghetto" there too. They get out of control lawns, cars coming in and blowing horns....etc etc. There isnt an invisbile fence around them that keeps the "unwanted" out.

OMG that reminds me of the one place that didnt allow you to work from home. No home offices. That was part of the rules. Well this one lady didnt have a business located in her home, but had a computer and ordered furniture from Staples and she was sent letters to cease and disist her business at once. Oh it was so funny at least on my part because the "board" was yelling that anyone who orders from Staples must be doing business. I still laugh at that one too. They spent so much money on that too. And lost obviously.

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:38 pm

Shawn Juris wrote:Is a sudo government based on some kind of word puzzle. I'm not familiar with what you mean Jim. Then again maybe it's something that elitists wouldn't understand.

Yes

I just do not understand why everything has to be solved with rules and or law suites. If some one is sitting out honking their horn at un godly hours of the morning then go over knock on there window and ask them to stop. Or ask the owner of the home to tell their friend to stop. If no body listens then call the police.

That is part of what makes Lakewood so cool is the lack of cookie-cutter neighborhoods. I rode my bike through the east side one day and then rode through the lakefront properties the next. There is no need for everything to be the same.

Live and Let Liveâ€¦ or move to BV

Dee Martinez · Post by **Dee Martinez** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:51 pm

Missy Limkemann wrote: OMG that reminds me of the one place that didnt allow you to work from home. No home offices. That was part of the rules. Well this one lady didnt have a business located in her home, but had a computer and ordered furniture from Staples and she was sent letters to cease and disist her business at once.

Im sorry that doesnt pass the sniff test. I would want to see some proof on that claim. No condo can tell you what furniture to buy. Nor is there any mechanism in place that I can think of where a condo association would be able to get that info from Staples.
And Lakewood has its own restrictions.
Try running a phonebook listing or ad for your IT consultancy or web development office on Delaware Ave for example. See what happens.

Several years ago, I remember a woman who ran a cleaning service who was forced to rent a useless storefront on Madison Ave, even though she was perfectly capable of running the business from her home.

Missy Limkemann · Post by **Missy Limkemann** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:43 pm

Oh no, the "board" member saw a staples truck and decided she must be furnishing her "home office" because no one just shops there for any other reason. this member was sure she was running a business out of her home. NOT that she had any certain type of furniture. (i get stuff from staples all the time that has nothing to do with home business....school supplies, and a really nice office chair and that was when I was single working for this law firm...they had a great sale that day) It was one of those "nosy bodies" that just walk around and snoop on everyone. I still laugh about that one day. Everyone was so worried about getting UPS or anything delivered to their units because of this board.
Again this is what happens when people have too much time on their hands. LOL.
I love that each house is different here, I love all the uniques things about Lakewood...I so would not want to live in that Walgreens Commercial.

Jim DeVito · Post by **Jim DeVito** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:28 am

I split this into two topics. As I think the co-op conversation would be better suited for the Urban Dynamics forum.

Now to be fair. Does any know what sort of trouble Shawn and friends would face in trying to set up one of tease HO's?

Ed Dickson · Post by **Ed Dickson** » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:59 am

I think he's seeing the biggest problem play out already. Getting people to buy into it.