Cleveland Mag Suburb Rating and High Taxes

[Mike Farley]

I recently took a quick look at Cleveland Magazine's "rating the suburbs" issue. Lakewood wasn't anywhere near the top, but that isn't anything new. Personally, I really don't care about this rating, but the reality is that there are a LOT of people out there who do.

From a brief glance, it looked like the crime stats didn't help our standing, but hopefully with the mayor's new initiatives around policing, that will change soon.

What was really striking though were the tax figures. It's amazing to see just how much more we pay in this city. What I don't believe a lot of people realize is how badly these taxes hurt our ability to draw in new residents.

I love this city, I've already been here for 10 years, I want to live here for a long time to come AND I want to see this city THRIVE. It has so much going for it (walkability, proximity to the lake, youthfulness of residents, etc), but make no mistake about it...the high taxes are hurting us.

Just in my circle of friends, I know young couples (20's and 30's) who didn't consider moving here and a big factor was the taxes. These were couples with strong incomes (6 figures combined) and they were looking to settle on a community for many years to come. The taxes were a big factor that drove us away and now they're in places like Westlake.

In my opinion, the city should be looking for ways to LOWER the tax rate in the long term. I'm fully aware that it isn't possible in the short term. Lowering our tax rate will go a long way toward making our great city THRIVE and not just survive.

[Bill Call]

In my opinion, the city should be looking for ways to LOWER the tax rate in the long term. I'm fully aware that it isn't possible in the short term. Lowering our tax rate will go a long way toward making our great city THRIVE and not just survive.

I agree with your analysis. However, there are a lot of people out there who think the quality of life in a City is determined by the size of the City work force, the size of their paychecks and the generousity of the benefit package. Don't expect widespread agreement with your desire for lower property taxes.

One overlooked fact regarding property taxes is that property taxes as a percentage of income are higher in Lakewood than many surrounding communites.

Hang on to your wallet because the schools are going to be coming for more, a lot more. Raises were promised and raises will be given regardless of the cost to the community.

The other overlooked fact is that many commercial buildings in the City are appraised below market value. That adds an additional burden to the homeowner.

Three times over the last few months I have emailed the County auditor regarding the failure of the County to update the valuations of commercial property. I have not received a response. How is that a property can be sold for 3 times its appraised value but still be valued at its presale valuation long after the sale?

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Uhhhhh I know for a fact that one of the main reasons people don't move to Lakewood is because of the high taxes. The (apparently) rising crime rate is farther down the list.

For the condition of our roads and "services" from City Hall, it makes me wonder how we can face a budget crisis while paying such high taxes. It seems like we don't get much of anything in return for such high taxes.

Granted our schools are top of the line, but that's only part of the equation.

[stephen davis]

[Mike Coleman]

Crocker Park is 12 miles further away from downtown than my address in Lakewood. If these people moving to Avon or Westlake work downtown, then they drive 24 miles per day for likely more than 250 work days per year. Therefore, they spend at least 6000 more miles commuting per year and dozens of hours more away from their families while on the road. With a car averaging 20 mpg, they will burn through 300 more gallons per year. So of the money (perhaps hundreds of dollars) they save on property taxes, they spend (currently) a rate of $1,200 more annually in gasoline. Since an Ohioan pays 44.4 cents in gas tax, they will spend between $125-$150 more per year in gas taxes.

[stephen davis]

Crocker Park is 12 miles further away from downtown than my address in Lakewood. If these people moving to Avon or Westlake work downtown, then they drive 24 miles per day for likely more than 250 work days per year. Therefore, they spend at least 6000 more miles commuting per year and dozens of hours more away from their families while on the road. With a car averaging 20 mpg, they will burn through 300 more gallons per year. So of the money (perhaps hundreds of dollars) they save on property taxes, they spend (currently) a rate of $1,200 more annually in gasoline. Since an Ohioan pays 44.4 cents in gas tax, they will spend between $125-$150 more per year in gas taxes.

Thanks for posting that!



Steve (In Lakewood by Choice) Davis

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[Whitney Gersak]

Crocker Park is 12 miles further away from downtown than my address in Lakewood. If these people moving to Avon or Westlake work downtown, then they drive 24 miles per day for likely more than 250 work days per year. Therefore, they spend at least 6000 more miles commuting per year and dozens of hours more away from their families while on the road. With a car averaging 20 mpg, they will burn through 300 more gallons per year. So of the money (perhaps hundreds of dollars) they save on property taxes, they spend (currently) a rate of $1,200 more annually in gasoline. Since an Ohioan pays 44.4 cents in gas tax, they will spend between $125-$150 more per year in gas taxes.

Totally. Not to mention wear and tear on their car(s). It's a whole lot easier to say "Well look at the taxes" when the large lump sum is in front of you, than it is to add up commuting costs, car costs ect.

I'm hopeing that as the crime rates go down people will move back to Lakewood. With gas being the way it is, I cant see the mass movement out of here continuing, and i think if the city can get the "crime" under control Lakewood will be a desirable community to live in, regardless of the taxes.

[Jeff Endress]

This is a topic, in one form or anther, that I have addressed a number of time, usually with Mr. Call. And as I've always said, you can't simply look at the tax rate, in a vacuum. Without addressing the ACTUAL oit of pocket costs associated with any residential choice, the single element of the tax rate has no meaning. And the factors invovled in the formulation are many. City services, saftey force response time, proximity of hospitals, parks, schools, libraries. Commute time and cost, water and sewer rates, rec departments. But, tax rates get the bulk of the attention because they represent such a large single identifiable expenditure. And people who SAY that taxes chased them away are only looking at the rates, and not the global costs associated with the exurbanite lifestyle.

My Mother lives in Avon Lake. In non-rush hour traffic, It takes me about 20 minutes to drive from my western Lakewood Home to hers. If you added that 20 minutes (40 per day) to your commute, over anormal work year (250 days) that extra commut time would equal 166 hours. So....how much is your time worth. Add it into the equation, along with the extra gas, car mileage, wear and tear. Oh...and the carbon footprint. Add that in too.

It's far more complex than any one single factor. And how you choose to quantify the formula is really highly personal, and you can use whatever data fits your frame of reference in justification.

Jeff

[J Hrlec]

I didn't let taxes affect my decision to stay in Lakewood, however... if I am paying these high taxes I still wonder why the majority of the streets are destroying my suspension and why (2) of the local small parks are in horrible shape.

But I digress...getting slightly off topic. People all have their own criteria in choosing a city to live in, tax can be one, but it is not for all.

[Tim Liston]

It's not fair to assert that it's OK for Lakewood to assess higher property taxes because our commute times are shorter and because we are closer to hospitals, parks and such. This seems to be what two or three posters are saying and it's disingenuous at best. Heck it's a textbook red herring argument.

It's only OK for Lakewood to have higher property taxes if the services and schools are commensurately better, and if the community values them as such. I do think our services are pretty good but I don't think they are THAT good. Our streets and some of our parks are horrific. And I think that there are some services that Lakewood should not be providing.

If anything, by virtue of our population density some city services such as trash collection, infrastructure maintenance and the like should be less expensive on a per taxpayer basis than in other cities.

Did you see the article in the Plain Dealer yesterday about the Ohio counties that are refusing to lower the assessed valuations of homes in their counties, despite their clearly lower values?

[Whitney Gersak]

I do think that many of our city services are much better than other cities. That, coupled with the shorter commute times, makes Lakewoods taxes not as much of a "pain" for me to pay.
I do understand, however, that each person will feel differently about what services they are willing to pay for and how they feel those services compare to other cities.
Whitney

[Mike Coleman]

I didn't mean to imply the taxes were a result of the short commute. The taxes are primarily a result of the age of the infrastructure and high-density population. I was just pointing out there is more to the personal financial puzzle than property taxes. ie...a person escaping the high property taxes for lower property taxes might end up losing money. Obviously, if you work at Henkel or Hyland, my example doesn't make much sense, but I do think people start looking at living closer to where they work when there's an energy problem like this.

People complain about sprawl, but basically it was a result of cheap gasoline combined with cheap agriculture after the farm collapses of the 80s. That has flipped-flopped, and if that change continues, people will start moving back.

[Jeff Endress]

It's not fair to assert that it's OK for Lakewood to assess higher property taxes because our commute times are shorter and because we are closer to hospitals, parks and such.

If that is the impression I left, I apoligize. I was inartful in my statement. What I should have said was, "And the factors invovled in the formulation of residential choice are many".....

I did not mean that what we have to offer justifies charging higher taxes....rather, I would posit that because of those positives we accept paying taxes that are higher. I don't believe that shorter commute causes or justifies higher taxes. But, (and I'll say it again) taxes are but a single element in an incredibly complex formulation whereby we choose where we wish to live.

Jeff

[Stan Austin]

It seems clear from reading this series of posts that there is confusion between costs and taxes. If overall costs (which include taxes) are the primary consideration for the choice of home purchase then Lakewood is very competitive.

If insularity, homogenization, and conformity are the sought after values, then tax rates are merely an excuse to choose an exurb over Lakewood.

If you want to pay much more for recreation, sports and fitness-- then go to the high cost communities such as Avon and beyond.

If you value multi cultural centers of activities then maybe Lakewood is your choice.

Now, let's just see if Winterhurst can provide a community agreed upon all income experience through privatization.

[Bill Call]

.... coupled with the shorter commute times, makes Lakewoods taxes not as much of a "pain" for me to pay.
I do understand, however, that each person will feel differently about what services they are willing to pay for and how they feel those services compare to other cities.
Whitney

The shorter commute is only valid for those who work downtown.

As more and more jobs move to Avon and Westlake to join all the retail that has moved to Avon and Westlake those living in Lakewood will have the long commute. It is Lakewood that will become the outer suburb.

When the Cleveland Clinic finally opens its new hospital in Avon the question will become "If everything is somewhere else why live here"?