LHS, why can't we be like others?

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

School takes back hoodie ban

Petitions, protests, we even wanted to make shirts protesting against the hoodie ban, and still nothing. I was a Junior in high school when the dress code was put in place.

This isn't a post about the hoodie rule. I graduated and frankly don't care about who can wear what. It's about how there is a gap between the students and the teachers and administrators.

There has always been a gap between the student body and teachers and administrators at LHS (and the middle school I was at). When you don't listen to the large student body, and shrug off everything they have to say, it makes the students wonder if administrators even care. "If you don't care, why should we?" sums up the attitude of most students in schools right now.

Talking with a lot of graduates this past week (since they're home for thanksgiving) they can all agree that the administrators didn't really show that they cared in past years.

This year they have to. Gun threats, a student passing away, a sexual battery case that still isn't even close to being done, there's a ton going on. The school has shot itself in the foot. Now they're saying "Oh, crap!" and have gone into panic mode trying to make the public believe that all is well and great in our schools through the media, letters and phone calls.

So I ask. How is this gap closed? What should students and administrators do? Students spend most of their day in school. If they have any kind of problems in their life and want to talk to someone it's hard to find that someone in school. In my four years at LHS I have never met or seen the "school psychologist". I probably should have.

I love my Alma Mater and I'm proud to have graduated from there. I was blessed with great teachers, a great principal, and I met new people and made great friends. There are many that aren't as fortunate as I was, and I wonder how would they get help when the administration makes it so hard and "scary" to get help.

I can't wait to hear what you all have to say.

[Dee Martinez]

There is SUPPOSED to be a "gap" between students and teachers/administration.
Students are NOT equals. Nor should teachers and principals be just another part of your circle of friends. I dont know if it is the "sexual battery" case you refer to, but we do know that at least one LHS teacher blurred the line with a terrible result for all involved.

Adults teach. Youth learns. If the lessons take and youth learns well, they become "adults" worthy of the name. To teach, indeed to do nearly anything productive, there must be a semblance of order. This is why we give police the power to arrest and not merely suggest.

Adults absolutely have the responsibility to use their power wisely and using it wisely includes listening and honestly considering the views of students and being able to provide a plausible reason for their actions. Whether banning hoodies meets that I dont know much about.

When you say "recent graduates" agree that administrators "in past years havent showed they cared," what is that in comparison to? By definition "recent graduates" ONLY EXPERIENCE is "recent years" Since my high school days I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth between authoritarianism and "letting the inmates run the asylum" The best approach seems to be that adults should listen, but lead.

Is "showing they care" defined (figuratively) as taking the lock off the liquor cabinet? Or putting a second one on? This is a question whose answer will seem much different to you at 40 than it does at 20.

Who was it who said that "when I was 16, my father was the dumbest man in the world. I'm amazed at what the old man has learned in the last 20 years."?

[Jim O'Bryan]

[This isn't a post about the hoodie rule. I graduated and frankly don't care about who can wear what. It's about how there is a gap between the students and the teachers and administrators.

Ivor

You always make me smile.

There will always be a gap, there has to be a gap, when the gap disappears we all have problems.

This school thing is a learning thing. It not only teaches you about facts, math, history etc. It teaches you about life. From kindergarten to college. The subjects taken are but one small part of the entire course.

I myself was a rebel in my day, hard to believe. Help start a walkout because they dare to take away our smoking area! How dare they! Who cared if we legally could not smoke because of our age. They had given us a smoking area, and after the abuse of, drugs, "switch knives and sucker kisses" they were taking it away.

We organized, staged a walkout, "The Lakewood Seven" were rounded up put in a room, and dealt with. I think we got three days suspension. They should have slapped us silly and sent us to the DH! Had they given in, everything would have come down to a vote everytime. Every detail of everything would have been debated, it would have been chaos and anarchy.

I think Robert Zimmerman said it best.

A nice song to get you through life.

Gotta Serve Somebody

You may be an ambassador to England or France,
You may like to gamble, you might like to dance,
You may be the heavyweight champion of the world,
You may be a socialite with a long string of pearls

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You might be a rock 'n' roll addict prancing on the stage,
You might have drugs at your command, women in a cage,
You may be a business man or some high degree thief,
They may call you Doctor or they may call you Chief

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a state trooper, you might be a young Turk,
You may be the head of some big TV network,
You may be rich or poor, you may be blind or lame,
You may be living in another country under another name

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a construction worker working on a home,
You may be living in a mansion or you might live in a dome,
You might own guns and you might even own tanks,
You might be somebody's landlord, you might even own banks

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may be a preacher with your spiritual pride,
You may be a city councilman taking bribes on the side,
You may be workin' in a barbershop, you may know how to cut hair,
You may be somebody's mistress, may be somebody's heir

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

Might like to wear cotton, might like to wear silk,
Might like to drink whiskey, might like to drink milk,
You might like to eat caviar, you might like to eat bread,
You may be sleeping on the floor, sleeping in a king-sized bed

But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody,
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

You may call me Terry, you may call me Timmy,
You may call me Bobby, you may call me Zimmy,
You may call me R.J., you may call me Ray,
You may call me anything but no matter what you say

You're gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed
You're gonna have to serve somebody.
Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
Bob Dylan



It's called life's lessons.


.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

I come from a place where there isn't a gap, where there aren't school shootings and gun threats and the level of learning is twice as good as here.

It's funny how trained everyone is here. Anything alternative gets pushed aside.

My brothers teachers were the ones that found us clothes during the winter and brought us food when we couldn't afford any.

Our teachers found my parents jobs and to this day, the gap being a ocean and thousands of miles, call, write, and visit us.

Your teachers walk all over your students just to prove the "gap" and that they are superior. They are the reason many drop out. They are the reason suicides happen at my age. It strikes me funny that the kids that respect their teachers more and like their teachers and do better in class are the kids that feel that their teachers aren't the ones that will bring out the ruler when someone speaks out in class. The teachers that respect their students opinion, and listen to what's on a students mind, whether it be about the curriculum or not, are the ones that have the most successful students.

That's what life is about here, you always have to struggle to be superior to someone else.

Dee, I knew your response before you even posted it.

Jim, I'm glad I make you smile.

[Gary Rice]

I think that the writer Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain) once wrote "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education".

As Jim indicated, school is as much about life, as it is bookwork.

It does not take too long to understand that there are written and unwritten rules in both school and in life.

Our Lakewood teachers and administrators mostly do care a great deal for their students. I believe that we can take that to the bank.

Teachers and administrators can, and should be friendly, but never "friends", with their students.

There are reasons that we don't get to be adults, with adult rights, until the age of 18.

That used to be 21, by the way, and for some- that age might be too soon; but there it is.

Also, as everyone learns sooner or later, neither school nor life, may always seem fair, nor are things always what they appear to be, nor do young people always get their way, nor should they.

There are, for example, very good reasons why hoodies might not be a good idea in the classrooms. Rights come with responsibilities. Those in authority weigh student rights with responsibilities whenever they make these types of calls.

Yes, there are agendas too. National leaders with liberal and conservative viewpoints try to influence everything from curriculum to graduation requirements, to teacher training, but we already know that.

This "struggle dynamic" of ideas, in one way or another, is what our country, and our American classrooms are all about.

The disciplined atmosphere of some "better" school elsewhere, reflects elements that some may not have considered. For example, an increase in uniformity necessarily can also mean less personal freedom and greater personal stress to achieve and fit in.

We should kid ourselves not, there are agendas in those educational settings as well.

In reference to other schools, perhaps elsewhere in the world, I recently read of a shooting over there as well not too long ago. Violence, and people having problems, are not uniquely American phenomena.

Wisdom should be the application of learning. Age should reflect an increased application of wisdom. That will generally transpire in any environment where learning is cherished.

As retired educators, Dad and I volunteer in the Lakewood Schools. Lakewood Schools are doing a great job with a diverse population, and diverse ideas. The schools help to recognize and implement a wide variety of different services available to assist students as they progress with their education

[ryan costa]

I listen to a show called "from the top". they have teenage musicians play with this other musician and offer biographical tidbits. One of them was from eastern europe. He talked about how his musical instructor would keep students motivated with tortuous repetition and the occasional beating.

[Jim O'Bryan]

If you ask me the whole system broke down when they got rid of 3.2 beer. The step from High School to college became huge. Next thing you know binge drinking!

FWIW


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[Dee Martinez]

Your teachers walk all over your students just to prove the "gap" and that they are superior. They are the reason many drop out. They are the reason suicides happen at my age. It strikes me funny that the kids that respect their teachers more and like their teachers and do better in class are the kids that feel that their teachers aren't the ones that will bring out the ruler when someone speaks out in class. The teachers that respect their students opinion, and listen to what's on a students mind, whether it be about the curriculum or not, are the ones that have the most successful students.

Dee, I knew your response before you even posted it.

Pretty harsh stuff. You are tarring a lot of very good people with a brush only a handful may deserve.
One of the things Ive learned in my descent into the utter predictability of advanced age is that it is usually dangerous to generalize to that degree.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Dee,

the only way to know something for sure is to see it with your own eyes and experience it. Times are different now.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've been blessed with great teachers, almost all are my friends now.

not everyone was as lucky as I was for the past two years of my high school days.

[Stephen Eisel]

I come from a place where there isn't a gap, where there aren't school shootings and gun threats and the level of learning is twice as good as here.

Are you from the Antarctica?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Dee,

the only way to know something for sure is to see it with your own eyes and experience it. Times are different now.
.

Ivor

I am curious how?

I have to believe while your young eyes are sharper, mine has better depth perception. I see very little change in the ages. How far we have moved in 50 years is a bit disappointing.

What was the big change(s) that allows us to believe that cats can lay side by side with dogs?

The structure of life that has been drummed into your head, wherever you went to school, was social norms that serve us everyday. There are social norms that are very broad, and bet in year after year. From simple stuff like walk on the right side of the hall(driving, order), to writing papers and getting them in on time (deadlines). How to eat, grade school mom packs lunch, junior high you do, and given a choice to buy it. High school, pack, buy or leave the building to buy it. College, on your own, kind of, as long as you do not miss class. (eating, health, management, buying skills, street skills)

There are billions of these lessons, sent in subliminally or not.

So please, let me know the change.


.

[Charyn Compeau]

http://www.loveandlogic.com/Media/whatis.pdf

This parenting technique is based upon the premise that the same methods for raising children in 1950 cannot be used in 2000.

Its a great program based upon some very sound principles.

(Just food for thought)

Charyn

Edit to update the link with a more descriptive one.

[Stephen Eisel]

If you ask me the whole system broke down when they got rid of 3.2 beer. The step from High School to college became huge. Next thing you know binge drinking!

FWIW


.

I remember 3.2 beer. Yeah, it was like near beer but we still bought it..

[dl meckes]

http://www.loveandlogic.com/Media/whatis.pdf

This parenting technique is based upon the premise that the same methods for raising children in 1950 cannot be used in 2000.

Its a great program based upon some very sound principles.

(Just food for thought)

Charyn

Edit to update the link with a more descriptive one.

Having been raised in the 50's and 60's, I can assure you that the few things described in that PDF were pretty standard fare back in the day.

[Lynn Farris]

Ivor,

I think I understand what you are saying - but I'm not so sure that anything has changed since I was in school. We had teachers that were jerks and administrators that were jerks too.

But we also had teachers and administrators that were amazing. Teachers that you could talk to if you had a problem that would help you. For me, it was my speech teacher Mr. Weidner he taught me to think, to outline, to debate.

My son had a horrible teacher and he begged me every day to home school him so he would have a teacher that liked him - then the next year he had Mr. Fassett a totally amazing teacher who both my children felt like they could talk to about anything. In HS my son had a nun who taught him drafting who he adored and she wrote him the nicest letter on his senior retreat. My daughter had some magnificent art teachers and coaches. Both my children were blessed with some magnificent teachers at both Lakewood and Trinity - but they did have their share of clunkers and some administrators that we all had to deal with that made us want to pull our hair out.

I'm not so sure that your parents wouldn't tell you the same. In my experience life is like that too - full of gray - very little is all good or all bad. You choose whether to focus on the positive or on the negative.

Lets say with the hoodie issue the teachers and administrators were listening - they were just a little delayed in acting.

BTW Jim, when I went to college they served 3/2 beer on Friday nights. If I recall - kids did still get drunk - they just had to drink a whole lot more to do so.