4 Questions

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:16 pm

1) Shouls the LO report crime or not report crime?

2) When we report crime should the LO lock down the deck so no one writes?

3) Should the LO stop all opinion on the Deck, and in the Paper?

4) Do we put together a citizen steering board, even though the Project is owned, and operated by a bunch of Lakewoodites already?

always curious about this stuff.

Suggestions box through out the Project.

.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:37 pm

Jim,

The views expressed in any posts on the Observation Deck are the views of the person posting them.

The Lakewood Observer does not approve of individual posts nor is the Lakewood Observer responsibe for the content in any post.

This forum is maintained, solely to provide an arena for discussion, without approval, editing or censorship by the Lakewood Observer.

chris richards · Post by **chris richards** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:01 pm

Jim,

I don't believe the deck should be locked down or have a steering board. Nor do I think that opinions should cease being part of the project.

Personally, I think opinion pieces, or news stories that are heavy with opinion should be labeled as such.

Also, I would suggest as I have done on another thread, that when reporting any event on the deck, the opinion of the writer be left out of the starting post to keep clear any doubt of the lack of journalistic integrity. Even if that means they go right back in and make the first opinion post.

Mark Crnolatas · Post by **Mark Crnolatas** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:02 pm

Jim,

My opinion:

1) Yes the LO should report crime. Crime happens as well as good things happen.

2) The LO should continue to be an uncensored venue for posting by anyone about anything. It's worked this long, it will keep on working.

3) Everyone has an opinion on something. This relates to number 2 above.

4) I woudn't see any reason for any more than the board, which has also done a good job this long. Why change that concept?

5) Opinions often bring emotions with them. That is part of the LO deck.
Each person is responsible for their own postings. If one wears their emotions on their sleeve, then everyone will see those emotions and some people will form opinions on that person from what they have read, content being whatever it may be, and expressing whatever emotion it might convey. This again goes back to number 2 in my post.

6) Some people's postings carry a "perceived" weight with them. No one pays much attention to my postings as a rule I would think, since I have little to no influence over any political, structural, or financial aspect of the city. Other people do, and their postings may carry a different level of "bang" by the reader or the reader's perception of that person.
This is not to say those people shouldn't post, but I maybe keep that aspect in mind when posting.
Example: When the Chief of Police posts something, I would venture to say many of us attach a larger degree of importance to his post (if it is regarding crime) than from say, myself, since he is on the inside, and I am a spectator.

I do not say anyone needs to squelch their own posts, but if I were in a position as I have mentioned, I might keep that in mind, before I make my post.

Regarding the way the LO "works", it works, so why change it?

Mark Allan Crnolatas

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:28 pm

The LO should report crime just as the LO reports about all sorts of other events in Lakewood.

If you lock down the deck, you close down a vehicle for anyone in this city to write out what's on their minds.

For pete's sake, the deck is for how we think and feel about things. Sure it gets heated sometimes. So? This is a vibrant city with bright, opinionated, eccentric, middle of the road and way out there people. Just like any other town.

How boring would it be if we all agreed on things?

I have made new friends on the deck (and a few haters - but no biggie on that).

I appreciate an open forum where ideas and arguments can float back and forth ad nauseum at times.

This place is fine.

Thanks to all that make the LO available for everyone.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:39 pm

chris richards wrote:Also, I would suggest as I have done on another thread, that when reporting any event on the deck, the opinion of the writer be left out of the starting post to keep clear any doubt of the lack of journalistic integrity. Even if that means they go right back in and make the first opinion post.

Cris

Like when you checked the facts on my parking styles?

I think it is an excellent suggestion, and maybe we do a suggestion sheet on the deck for new posters.

However, I have yet to meet a reporter without an opinion, or slant. Some are better at covering stories without showing it, but we all have slants and agendas. Even if it is only, where to eat lunch.

What the Observer does is allows for that slant with "auto-centering" posts. With the run up to the election the Deck was heavily loaded with Republicans. To be honest I was happy, we had been called "left" for so long it had become tiring explaining how we had tried to get the right involved in a postive way.

At best all we can do is have the writers and posters take ownership of their words and thoughts.

peace

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:43 pm

Sharon,

you and I have battled many times and have fought on the same side of many great posts and discussions.

this is a healthy way for a community to voice their opinions.

I can understand the frustration of folks that post here and feel outnumbered. I have been in their position many times, and probably will be many times more.

It is important to take any criticism from deck members as constructive, rather than a personal attack.

The outnumbered have a place to print and post their thoughts and opinions for millions to see. That's the beauty of the LO. we can engage in conversations and learn more about the many people that make up this city. I can say I have met far more people through the deck and LO than I ever thought I would have 3 years ago.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:44 pm

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:I can say I have met far more people through the deck and LO than I ever thought I would have 3 years ago.

Same here, Ivor.

chris richards · Post by **chris richards** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:49 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote: Like when you checked the facts on my parking styles?

While I did jump to my own conclusions about your parking styles, I was not reporting that in a newspaper article as a journalistic piece of writing.

However, I would like to point out one thing about that. The Bus stop sign in front of Bela Dubby has arrows pointing in front of and behind the sign. Indicating that the space you enjoy parking in is in fact part of the bus stop. Many other bus stop signs I have seen only have arrows in front of the sign.

Most journalists who do have opinions keep them in check. And if they do not, they publish those on the opinion page.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:51 pm

1) Shouls the LO report crime or not report crime?
yes. not everything is always reported on TV and other print sources. There have been many breaking news events that have been posted on the Deck, and they always lead to constructive and interesting conversations.

2) When we report crime should the LO lock down the deck so no one writes?
How about a "Breaking News" section of the LO. Not announcements, but crimes and public safety things. There, moderators can post releases from City Hall and the police. Separately, Deck members can post opinions, concerns and thoughts about the events on the Lakewood General Discussion area.

3) Should the LO stop all opinion on the Deck, and in the Paper?
NO. I think people are fed up in this city to not have their concerns be heard or expressed, valued and appreciated.

4) Do we put together a citizen steering board, even though the Project is owned, and operated by a bunch of Lakewoodites already?
dl cracks the whip pretty good. Rarely will she remind posters of general rules and some decency, but when it needs to happen it has happened.

don't change the format.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:52 pm

chris richards wrote: However, I would like to point out one thing about that. The Bus stop sign in front of Bela Dubby has arrows pointing in front of and behind the sign. Indicating that the space you enjoy parking in is in fact part of the bus stop. Many other bus stop signs I have seen only have arrows in front of the sign.

People do this all the time in front of bela. They can't be bothered to park in a proper spot because they have to have their coffee.

chris richards · Post by **chris richards** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:06 pm

David Lay wrote:
chris richards wrote: However, I would like to point out one thing about that. The Bus stop sign in front of Bela Dubby has arrows pointing in front of and behind the sign. Indicating that the space you enjoy parking in is in fact part of the bus stop. Many other bus stop signs I have seen only have arrows in front of the sign.
People do this all the time in front of bela. They can't be bothered to park in a proper spot because they have to have their coffee.

I am aware that other's do that as well and it still upsets me, the only reason I pointed out Jim was his is the only car that I can identify and I see it there repeatedly. Parking is just one of my pet peeves. That's all.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:15 pm

Yeah, his cars tend to stand out...

Todd Shapiro · Post by **Todd Shapiro** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:21 pm

Yes the LO should report on crime when it happens. Crime is news, doesn't matter if the news is good or bad news is news!

no you should not lock down the deck at any time it is about the free expression of opinion.

However, in my humble opinion I think there should be some higher standard about what appears in the print edition of the Observer. Many organizations requires their volunteers to take a brief training course before joining on and I think anyone who wishes to write for the print edition should be briefed in journalistic standards and ethics. They should also at least understand the difference between a news story and an advertisement. That would present a more professional image for all of those who own, write for, edit or advertise in the Observer.

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:28 pm

What is the difference between an amateur and a professional - a professional gets paid.

The LO is a community paper, anyone in the community can write for the paper. Demanding that writers take journalistic types of training would stifle some of the very things that make the LO such a valuable resource.

I have worked on some community papers and newsletters. We encouraged members of the community to express their thoughts, their feelings and their unique views.

Personally I feel that if you want a professionally staffed paper, you need to pay the staff. The LO is not such a vehicle.