Did anyone go down to the Indians Opening Day?
I'm curious to hear any first-person accounts about the non-game that occurred. That looked like the most miserable baseball experience ever!
Opening Day (sort of)
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Mike Deneen
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Gary Rice
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- Location: Lakewood
As one who has been involved with the Native American community in the Cleveland area for many years, I can tell you that there are those who feel that the maladies of the Cleveland ball club may well come from a Higher Power, seeking justice- regarding their name, logo, and in particular, the use of the red feather.
That feather, to many Native Peoples, is regarded as the highest award that can be given to a wounded warrior. To see it on (in my opinion) a caricature, would seem to be a horrible thing for many Native Peoples, seeking to honor their heritage.
I'm sure that there will be people saying that the team "honors" Native Americans, or that Native Americans should get a life.
If more of us were aware of the lives that many of them have to live in this area, I am sure they would not feel that way.
How did we get Native Peoples back in Cleveland? As many are aware, the Resettlement Act of 1830 resulted in Native Peoples being forcibly removed from Ohio and other states to areas west of the Mississippi, in many trails of tears.
In the last 50 years, Native Americans were encouraged to come off the reservations and go east to the cities. That is why you see more of these people around here, and perhaps, why you see more objections to the logo.
Still, many feel that to diminish one American is to diminish all.
Hope this helps to explain some of the concerns and events of the present day, through another perspective.
That feather, to many Native Peoples, is regarded as the highest award that can be given to a wounded warrior. To see it on (in my opinion) a caricature, would seem to be a horrible thing for many Native Peoples, seeking to honor their heritage.
I'm sure that there will be people saying that the team "honors" Native Americans, or that Native Americans should get a life.
If more of us were aware of the lives that many of them have to live in this area, I am sure they would not feel that way.
How did we get Native Peoples back in Cleveland? As many are aware, the Resettlement Act of 1830 resulted in Native Peoples being forcibly removed from Ohio and other states to areas west of the Mississippi, in many trails of tears.
In the last 50 years, Native Americans were encouraged to come off the reservations and go east to the cities. That is why you see more of these people around here, and perhaps, why you see more objections to the logo.
Still, many feel that to diminish one American is to diminish all.
Hope this helps to explain some of the concerns and events of the present day, through another perspective.
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Mike Deneen
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Wow, that had nothing to do with the topic!
Not only are you incredibly wrong, you also make no sense on numerous logical levels. You are simply regurgitating a tired piece of left wing orthodoxy.
If Indian teams are "cursed", then why have the Redskins, Seminoles, Braves and numeorus other teams done so well over the years?
And if it is so "offensive" to be associated with major league sports, then why is every city, college and coporation in America lining up to be part of the show? Everywhere you turn, cities are building tax-supported stadiums to house teams, universities are lavishing big contracts onto coaches (no history professors get Nick Saban-like deals) and corporations are lining up to sponsor the big sports events (Rose Bowl presented by AT&T, CAvaliers presented by Cub Cadet)
Speaking as a proud democrat, I would much rather see these topics addressed than the flawed notion that Indians names "mock" natives. (How many Fighting Irish protesters do we have here in Lakewood....and why aren't Bill OReilly or John Gibson decrying the "war against Christians" reflected in the offensive Los Angeles Angels or New Orleans Saints names?)
Plus, isn't the notion of an Indian curse a stereotype onto itself? That's the kind of crap you find in B-movies like "Poltergeist", where the house built on the Indian graveyard is haunted. Shame on you Gary, for pepetuating such a negative image of our native peoples!
Not only are you incredibly wrong, you also make no sense on numerous logical levels. You are simply regurgitating a tired piece of left wing orthodoxy.
If Indian teams are "cursed", then why have the Redskins, Seminoles, Braves and numeorus other teams done so well over the years?
And if it is so "offensive" to be associated with major league sports, then why is every city, college and coporation in America lining up to be part of the show? Everywhere you turn, cities are building tax-supported stadiums to house teams, universities are lavishing big contracts onto coaches (no history professors get Nick Saban-like deals) and corporations are lining up to sponsor the big sports events (Rose Bowl presented by AT&T, CAvaliers presented by Cub Cadet)
Speaking as a proud democrat, I would much rather see these topics addressed than the flawed notion that Indians names "mock" natives. (How many Fighting Irish protesters do we have here in Lakewood....and why aren't Bill OReilly or John Gibson decrying the "war against Christians" reflected in the offensive Los Angeles Angels or New Orleans Saints names?)
Plus, isn't the notion of an Indian curse a stereotype onto itself? That's the kind of crap you find in B-movies like "Poltergeist", where the house built on the Indian graveyard is haunted. Shame on you Gary, for pepetuating such a negative image of our native peoples!
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Ivor Karabatkovic
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David Lay
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You won't have to...Indians games (both of them) just got cancelled.
New Website/Blog: dlayphoto.com
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Ivor Karabatkovic
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Todd Shapiro
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Mike,
I can't agree with you more. I usually don't agree when Democrats speak,
but at least we can all agree on left-wing garbage when we see it. Oh, and the Higher Powers must also hate animals and footwear too because the Detroit Tigers and Chicago White Sox have suffer similar fates do to this lovely spring weather ( global warming anyone??) GO TRIBE!!
I can't agree with you more. I usually don't agree when Democrats speak,
but at least we can all agree on left-wing garbage when we see it. Oh, and the Higher Powers must also hate animals and footwear too because the Detroit Tigers and Chicago White Sox have suffer similar fates do to this lovely spring weather ( global warming anyone??) GO TRIBE!!-
DougHuntingdon
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I didn't go downtown, so sorry I don't have any firsthand comments. However, while peering at the sky from Lakewood, I could see that downtown Cleveland got a lot more snow than we did.
I think the cause of the snow is global warming.
Doug
pic of some Chief Wahoo protesters, a few miles outside of town, before the game: http://community.iexplore.com/photos/jo ... teepee.JPG
I think the cause of the snow is global warming.
Doug
pic of some Chief Wahoo protesters, a few miles outside of town, before the game: http://community.iexplore.com/photos/jo ... teepee.JPG
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Mike Deneen
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Gary's a great guy, so I hope he learns from some of these responses.
By "crying racism" on the FAKE issue of chief wahoo, he opens the door for conservatives to diss REAL issues like global warming. See Todd's response.
Gary--working to preserve this wonderful world is a much better way to honor Native Americans than fighting sports team nicknames. THe native folks knew how to recycle, conserve and be efficient. Those are lessons we all need to learn ASAP, or else we're ALL in big trouble.
By "crying racism" on the FAKE issue of chief wahoo, he opens the door for conservatives to diss REAL issues like global warming. See Todd's response.
Gary--working to preserve this wonderful world is a much better way to honor Native Americans than fighting sports team nicknames. THe native folks knew how to recycle, conserve and be efficient. Those are lessons we all need to learn ASAP, or else we're ALL in big trouble.
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Jason Stewart
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Mike,
In response to the "actual" inquiry, yes it was quite miserable. My group of friends arrived a couple of hours early to enjoy a few adult beverages prior to game time and to check out the new Heritage Park. The scene downtown was the same as it would have been if it were 70 and sunny. The bars were packed and everyone was excited for the return of the Tribe. Arrived at the stadium at 3:40, bought my $5.75 beer from the outfield bar. Walked over to Heritage Park, looked around, pondered where they would put the memorial should someone else get inducted into the Hall of Fame, then proceeded to our seats. Five minutes prior to game time, it was announced the game would be delayed. Conveniently after everyone had already filed into the stadium and started buying food, beer, etc. A few more delays, and the wife and I decided to call it a day around the third inning- she was too cold (wimp). Took a $25 cab ride home, just in time to watch Hargrove come out and cry like a baby. All in all, it turned out to be a real let down. Maybe next year...
In response to the "actual" inquiry, yes it was quite miserable. My group of friends arrived a couple of hours early to enjoy a few adult beverages prior to game time and to check out the new Heritage Park. The scene downtown was the same as it would have been if it were 70 and sunny. The bars were packed and everyone was excited for the return of the Tribe. Arrived at the stadium at 3:40, bought my $5.75 beer from the outfield bar. Walked over to Heritage Park, looked around, pondered where they would put the memorial should someone else get inducted into the Hall of Fame, then proceeded to our seats. Five minutes prior to game time, it was announced the game would be delayed. Conveniently after everyone had already filed into the stadium and started buying food, beer, etc. A few more delays, and the wife and I decided to call it a day around the third inning- she was too cold (wimp). Took a $25 cab ride home, just in time to watch Hargrove come out and cry like a baby. All in all, it turned out to be a real let down. Maybe next year...
A truly wise man has more questions than answers.
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Jason Stewart
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Mike,
It snowed in April, in Ohio, global warming must be a farce. The average yearly temperature statistics are meaningless. Ice shelves breaking off are just merely coincidental. Let's just ignore the entire scientific community - they're a bunch of dummies anyway. Hell, why do anything, let's just continue to screw the next generation harder, damn kids these days.
It snowed in April, in Ohio, global warming must be a farce. The average yearly temperature statistics are meaningless. Ice shelves breaking off are just merely coincidental. Let's just ignore the entire scientific community - they're a bunch of dummies anyway. Hell, why do anything, let's just continue to screw the next generation harder, damn kids these days.
A truly wise man has more questions than answers.
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Gary Rice
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Mike,
You wrote:
"Shame on you Gary, for pepetuating such a negative image of our native peoples"
I am surprised at your posting, Mike.
Shame on ME?
In the spirit of the season, I would simply borrow and personalize Jesus' words from the cross.
May God forgive you. You know not what you do.
My posting had EVERYTHING to do with this topic.
No one's talking about any curse here, only speaking truth to power. No left wing, right wing, chicken wing agendas here.
It's a matter of perception, Mike. What you perceive, and others perceive may be totally different perceptions. As for the "Fighting Irish"? They chose that mascot themselves, and there's one difference for you.
I'm glad that you and others are proud of the ball team. I only pointed out what I felt to be some of the reasons for the discontent of Native Peoples.
How Native American feelings can possibly be tied into left-right wing stuff is absolutely beyond me....
You wrote:
"Shame on you Gary, for pepetuating such a negative image of our native peoples"
I am surprised at your posting, Mike.
Shame on ME?
In the spirit of the season, I would simply borrow and personalize Jesus' words from the cross.
May God forgive you. You know not what you do.
My posting had EVERYTHING to do with this topic.
No one's talking about any curse here, only speaking truth to power. No left wing, right wing, chicken wing agendas here.
It's a matter of perception, Mike. What you perceive, and others perceive may be totally different perceptions. As for the "Fighting Irish"? They chose that mascot themselves, and there's one difference for you.
I'm glad that you and others are proud of the ball team. I only pointed out what I felt to be some of the reasons for the discontent of Native Peoples.
How Native American feelings can possibly be tied into left-right wing stuff is absolutely beyond me....
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Ivor Karabatkovic
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Look for Jacobs Field to become the National City Ballpark (?) or something with national city in it.
not a fact, but just rumors that the employees are now talking about. It would make sense too, since they changed our uniforms from bright red polo's to a national city green button down shirt.
and when asked why the color change, they said "it's not because jacobs field is changing it's name."
Also, some new changes.
even more choice for foods, no smoking ANYWHERE in the ballpark, vendors will serve food and beverages in the bleachers, and heritage park. Oh, for the fans that like to keep score of the whole game, the score cards will now be $1 and they've changed the programs again.
I like the tribe not because I work for them, but because their ticket prices are very reasonable. I've worked everywhere in the ballpark, and the two favorite spots I have worked are the bleachers and the 2nd level mez (pronkville). with a pepsi can, a bleacher seat is only 7 bucks! and if you buy a pencil (haha, spend $48) in any team shop, you receive two free pronkville tickets to any april or may game.
Baseball isn't my favorite sport, but since cavs games are so expensive it's my favorite event to go to!
not a fact, but just rumors that the employees are now talking about. It would make sense too, since they changed our uniforms from bright red polo's to a national city green button down shirt.
and when asked why the color change, they said "it's not because jacobs field is changing it's name."
Also, some new changes.
even more choice for foods, no smoking ANYWHERE in the ballpark, vendors will serve food and beverages in the bleachers, and heritage park. Oh, for the fans that like to keep score of the whole game, the score cards will now be $1 and they've changed the programs again.
I like the tribe not because I work for them, but because their ticket prices are very reasonable. I've worked everywhere in the ballpark, and the two favorite spots I have worked are the bleachers and the 2nd level mez (pronkville). with a pepsi can, a bleacher seat is only 7 bucks! and if you buy a pencil (haha, spend $48) in any team shop, you receive two free pronkville tickets to any april or may game.
Baseball isn't my favorite sport, but since cavs games are so expensive it's my favorite event to go to!
"Hey Kiddo....this topic is much more important than your football photos, so deal with it." - Mike Deneen
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DougHuntingdon
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I believe Jacobs' naming rights are up soon, if technically not already up. I have no inside information, but I am sure National City would be interested. I know it bugs National City to no end to see Key's logo when Indians' games are broadcast. However, I am sure the Indians will try to get as much as they can and not accept chump change for naming rights.
As for Chief Wahoo, I think you will find only a small minority of Indians who are actually terribly offended. The 6 or 7 protesters you may see outside an Indians game probably don't speak for millions of Indians. I'm not even sure that Gary is offended. Call me cynical, but the post looks like it is a set up to bait other users--if so, I guess it is working.
Doug
As for Chief Wahoo, I think you will find only a small minority of Indians who are actually terribly offended. The 6 or 7 protesters you may see outside an Indians game probably don't speak for millions of Indians. I'm not even sure that Gary is offended. Call me cynical, but the post looks like it is a set up to bait other users--if so, I guess it is working.
Doug
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Mike Deneen
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