MADISON VILLAGE 2005 or THE RISE AND FALL OF LITTLE SoHO

[Matthew Charboneau]

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[john crino]

mmmmm? Too bad that nobody has responded to this post till now. Hopefully that is not representative of the interest in Madison Village on the whole.
Regardless,as a business owner in Madison Village (bela dubby coffee&beer 10am-10pm at 13321 Madison) I am more than interested in the happenings in the area. Is there a MV bussiness assoc.? How about a property owners association? How about a property owner's brain storming session? (I'll provide free coffee) I am relatively new to all of Lakewood so if anyone has any info please fill me in.
Thanks.
John Crino
beladubby@hotmail.com
221-4479

[Jim O'Bryan]

mmmmm? Too bad that nobody has responded to this post till now. Hopefully that is not representative of the interest in Madison Village on the whole.
Regardless,as a business owner in Madison Village (bela dubby coffee&beer 10am-10pm at 13321 Madison) I am more than interested in the happenings in the area. Is there a MV bussiness assoc.? How about a property owners association? How about a property owner's brain storming session? (I'll provide free coffee) I am relatively new to all of Lakewood so if anyone has any info please fill me in.
Thanks.
John Crino
beladubby@hotmail.com
221-4479

John

I am glad to see you jump in. I am more than willing to give this as much support as possible. Right now there are rumblings of a Madison Village Group. However I would think you might want to start working your end as well.

Jim

[Tom Bullock]

I think it is a shame that Capsule closed. I heard good things about it but never went myself.

I'm for diversity--so I have options to try new things. There are already great Irish bars in Lakewood, so let's preserve Capsule as a place that's different.

[Stephen Gross]

>Does anyone want to work with me on a story on the transition of the Madison Village bohemian ideal. I would have to argue that with B-Ware, Capsule, and now Chris' Warped closing the area has lost much of its counterculture cachet. Also don't forget that the catalyst for the whole idea has unceremoniously left town.

>Did Chris feel as though Lakewood was unable to support a counterculture enclave any longer? Does anyone care in the end if really unique spots are replaced by yet another Irish bar?

I never had been to B-Ware or Chris' Warped. I did go to Capsule a few times, and they really went downhill after awhile.

The problem is that the neighborhood in question does not project its own unique personality. It's not enough for the stores on the inside to have personality; the physical district needs to have a distinct identity that's immediately recognizable. That means redoing storefronts and unifying the district with a clear design.

It's likely that the market concept for the neighborhood--a "counterculture enclave"--is possible, but it can't be done with the current configuration of the existing neighborhood.

--Steve

[Kenneth Warren]

Steve:

Counterculture does not run on the shopper's dime alone. I would like you to meet Joe Stewart to discuss retail massing ideas for the village. Ultimately, the connection between housing and neighborhood needs to be more intelligently established along countercultural lines.

The staying power of hip capitalists has always been questionable.

I don't think Chris Andrews was able to connect very deeply with Lakewood's civic culture. Having met with him in such situations, he did not seem to possess the patience for that type of slow grind. It's a cost some small business persons cannot afford.

John Crino is another person to bring into the conversation. Bela is the thn edge of the next wedge. Charles from My Mind's Eye, likewise. There are pieces. But proper massing of retail synegy and housing tagets are needed.

Kenneth Warren

[john crino]

I would like to see some solid ideas for sustainablity regardless of the genre whether counterculture or otherwise. I mean no disrespect to anyone trying to start a business or create a "place" based on an identity (counterculture). As an example: I can surmise that a store that sells "day of the dead" paraphenalia will not have years of repeat business after the novelty of a couple visists wears off. This is just my opinion ,maybe I am wrong, but I am trying to make the point that maybe "counterculture" isn't what we should be betting our marbles on.
I'm not saying cracker park,I'm saying something in between that and what was tried before.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I would like to see some solid ideas for sustainablity regardless of the genre whether counterculture or otherwise.

John

There are such plans afoot, but many more people need to get involved. One such plan that would help secure your area of town is: Cafe University. When I stop in, let me give you the "Good Neighbor" rundown.


Stephen/Ken

Chris Andrews was run our of Lakewood on a rail. "City Hall" did not embrace Chris' vision of Madison Village. Chris is a man after my own heart, he wasn't going to wait for anyone. Those would be minutes lost in a life spent at full tilt boogie. Better start and hope people catch on.

This is exactly what happened in Madison Village. Chris built a village, a true village not a faux village. Neighbors that respected and yes, loved each other. They bonded because of their lifestyles, by bought into the dream, the vision, and the hardwork.

But you know, they wore the weird clothes, they had they stuff in their tongues, checks, eyes, who knows! Their bodies looked like the Sunday Funnies! This cannot be good for Lakewood!

Lakewood needed Chris Andrews, and 100 more Chris Andrews.

Jim O'Bryan

[john crino]

The important thing to decipher is why Chris' Madison Village didn't work or didn't last? I am not saying mistakes were made but evidently if there is something to learn from "the rise and the fall" of a neighborhood I hope we can apply it to the rise and NOT fall of the next neighborhood.
I am all for getting involved but all I can really offer at this time is to be open to listening and learning and trying to get my personal physical part of the street going.(and I said can offer free coffee for some meetings)

[Kenneth Warren]

John:

I really like your sense that a critical inquiry needs to bear down on the Madison Village vision.

When I say countercultural, I am pushing away from a straight out version of a few post hippy stores and a tattoo parlor. The sustainability factor, whether energy or ethos, whether practice of guilds or syndicated entrepreneurial networks, all need to be brought into the vision. We need to build larger connections between the housing, employment and the storefronts.

I think the shift in technology had a large part to play in the fall of the village.

Most of the key retail models were selling artifacts - records/videos - that came under pressure from the internet and new tech platforms.

It is also difficult to start a small business and then sell it, something Chris tried to do, and have the business succeed. As you know, it's very hard work and an unrelenting commitment to be there on time and on point, sometimes with little to show at the day's end.

So you might say that there is a kind of great man theory behind the rise of Madison Village, a great man with a vision that was not connected to the powers that be, and perhaps not connected to the roots in the streets behind the shops.

Dick Jacobs had a vision for the Galleria downtown. There are retail visions oversold and unsustainable all the time.

What I hope we can accomplish in Lakewood is a network with a community ethos, a place where we support the local enterprise as the great value creation strategy of community building.

There was a great little Herb Shop in your neck of the woods a few years past that could not make it.

Are there too few crunchy types in your hood to support such a business?
Perhaps.

Would an old time soda fountain, newstand with comics and zines rather than slicks make sense?

What are the indie retail shops in Portland or Seattle that could make sense?

Are Lakewood's demos still checking out along such lines?

My sense is that many young hip types have moved west due to the employment situation.

Therefore I believe the post 911 effect in Northeast Ohio was also a turning point in the fall of the village.

Of course, you know I believe a real brick over NY style pizza place is worth a shot.

A used book store that featured home and garden books, with a proprietor who knows how things work, serving in a way the old hardware stores once did, with a connection to the food shed and organizing cooperative purchasing for a small fee.

Like minded people need to buy buildings in proximity.

Anyway, I wanted to respond, because in a sense I see you as serving in a way that Chris Andrews did, to create a vision for the area.


Kenneth Warren

[Tom Bullock]

Let me put in a strong second for the idea of a good Lakewood bookstore. I shuddered when I had to go out to buy a book at Crocker Park this weekend--for an easy-to-find standard best seller volume, too. (Note I first tried Rocky River bookstores as a lesser of two evils, but they were closed or deserted--retail there is dying.)

A good bookstore linked to a good cafe with space for lectures, discussions, book signings, etc. is a public space where people can gather. It can be a space where people mingle, get food for the mind, and can share ideas, whether countercultural or mainstream.

Alternatively, Ken, put in a lots of cafe and lounge space in the new library, perhaps across from a garden or atrium with fountains to screen the noise of discussion!

[Rick Uldricks]

I live in Madison Village. I would love to see a bookstore/cafe, more record stores, more alternative "day of the dead" boutique shops, heck even a Skyline Chili. However, I think the most glaring omission of this thread is the parking issue. There is nowhere to park! Some stores, restaurants and bars may get some foot-traffic, but that will quickly fade. Students and kids on bikes can't support businesses, they really don't have much money. People simply aren't going to travel to one unique store if they think there's going going to be a parking hassle - they would much rather hold their noses, go to Cracker Park, and be able to shop, eat, and get a cup of coffee.

[john crino]

I live in Madison Village. I would love to see a bookstore/cafe, more record stores, more alternative "day of the dead" boutique shops, heck even a Skyline Chili. However, I think the most glaring omission of this thread is the parking issue. There is nowhere to park! Some stores, restaurants and bars may get some foot-traffic, but that will quickly fade. Students and kids on bikes can't support businesses, they really don't have much money. People simply aren't going to travel to one unique store if they think there's going going to be a parking hassle - they would much rather hold their noses, go to Cracker Park, and be able to shop, eat, and get a cup of coffee. :shock:

I have heard many other folks echo the same wishes for Madison. So, now that there seems to be a consensus on what people would like to see are there any takers? Anyone looking into opening a bookstore etc anywhere in lakewood. I like coffee shops and wanted to own one,so I opened one. Lakewood is a great place to take a chance on a business idea. Lots of cheap spaces to lease, large,concentrated population,good public transportation and most importantly, a strong percentage of the residents who genuinely like the city they live in and want to see it succeed. So, who is up to take the chance? As for parking, I lived in New York for 10 years, just about the most annoying place on the planet to try and park your car, and everyone just deals with it, so hopefully having to park a block from your destination will not deter people from coming to an area.

[Rick Uldricks]

Lakewood is a lot different from NY. Cities such as NY and Chicago have more evolved public transportation options and attitudes. Trains, subway, cabs, etc. We have the RTA. Public transportation and cabs, particularly for the type of people merchants want to attract, is a way of life in these cities. The RTA is a way of life in Cleveland too, just a much different one that will never support shopping in Lakewood.

People in Lakewood, Cleveland, River, Fairview Pk., etc. are simply never going to take the RTA or pay cab fare to shop in Lakewood. I think it's unrealistic to think that because it can be done in NY, it can be done in Lakewood.

Parking a block away WILL and HAS deterred people from coming to the area. Besides, parking is already bad on the street. I can only imagine the backlash when residents can't find a parking space because a shopper is in their usual spot in front of the double they rent!

Having compelling shops and restaurants is only the last part of the equation. The first part is having hassle-free, SAFE parking.

I really like the arrangement they have in Coventry with the multi-level parking garage there. I never balk at going out there to shop at Big Fun or eat at Tommy's - I know there will always be a parking spot in the garage.

[john crino]

I have been to crocker park twice and had to "find"a place to park and then walk a distance to get to the store I wanted, same at coventry, sometimes the garage is full and I need to find a place to park and walk some. I drive to and park in madison village 7 days a week for the last 18 months and have never had trouble finding parking and don't hear that concern from people who come down here either. I usually hear that complaint from people who don't come down here. "Isn't it hard to park there?" Parking for residents on the side streets is more difficult I would imagine.
Regardless, yes you are correct, more parking would only be advantageous to the future development and livability of the area.
I am trying not to continue on with a general gripe about current human nature partially shaped by malls, large fields of parking and drive throughs. That was my point about ny. It's the mindset and necessarily the physical landscape. One shapes the other I believe.