Hey, Lakewood, Why Don’t More Of Us Post On The Deck More?

Michael Deneen · Post by **Michael Deneen** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:18 pm

This is an excellent and long overdue topic.
Based on my interactions with other Lakewoodites, I have two theories:

1. Unlike much of the past ten years, there are no "hot button" issues out there. Even our local elections have become placid. Having experienced the hostility and fury of the 2003 and 2007 campaigns, I'm actually OK with this.

2. Although people still love the Observer paper, the LO website is widely viewed as stale and outdated. The format has not changed in over 8 years. There are no videos, audio files, or other multimedia content to attract traffic.

As the news industry continues to shift away from print, the Observer (which most Lakewoodites still view as "the paper") is at high risk of becoming outdated. This project has tons of outstanding content in every edition, so I want it to remain viable....this will require an upgrade of the LO online presence.

I have raised these issues in recent months with LO management/webmasters, but there was little and/or no response. The prevailing response seemed to be "we'll get around to it".

Matthew Lee · Post by **Matthew Lee** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:39 pm

My thoughts are two fold:

* When it comes to "breaking" news in Lakewood, that other website does a better job of being quicker and posting more frequently.

* When it comes to actual discussion of Lakewood and what might matter to me and our family, the LO is definitely the place to go.

Not sure if that answers your question, but those are my thoughts. Cheers!

Matt

Bill Trentel · Post by **Bill Trentel** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:44 am

The handful of dominate posters beliefs are set in stone, all threads lead to the same end. What's the point.

Bill

Betsy Voinovich · Post by **Betsy Voinovich** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:49 am

Bill Trentel wrote:The handful of dominate posters beliefs are set in stone, all threads lead to the same end. What's the point.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I have to disagree. Are your opinions set in stone? I don't think so.

I could cite posts of yours that have clarified and advanced discussions and helped Deck readers weigh different sides of things.

One of the most gratifying things to me about this project is watching a thread as different posters' thinking evolves. The one that I can think of most recently is Ryan Salo saying that he started off being pretty certain that he was going to vote against the school levy, and then, after weighing different people's opinions, and following some advice that he got here, going to the horse's mouth-- the School District-- and having his questions answered, he CHANGED HIS MIND PUBLICLY, HERE, and said that he would vote for the levy, and why.

I'm sure he is one that would be considered a "dominant poster" and maybe one who people think has opinions that are "set in stone." The fact that he shared his evolution on this subject with his community is proof that discussion works, and giving each other a chance is worth it.

This space makes that possible.

Betsy Voinovich

Betsy Voinovich · Post by **Betsy Voinovich** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:29 am

Another thing.. I don't know who designed this poll but the questions are skewed to the negative--

1. I’m too busy to post.
2. It’s too complicated to post on the Deck.
3. I’m too busy to care.
4. I’m happy with how things are going on here in the ‘Wood.
5. I’m afraid of being alienated by friends, family, and folks I don’t even know.
6. Anonymity is my sword and shield.
7. I post when I want to post so leave me alone!
8. None of your business!

Look at number two: It's not complicated to post on the Deck. Putting that item up there suggests to Deck readers who have never posted that it is difficult. It isn't. You hit "reply," a window opens, you type your reply, you hit "submit." That's it.

Attaching photos is like attaching photos to your email. Using youtube is a little trickier, you hit the "youtube" button, and then cut and paste only the information in the youtube link after the equal sign.

But what I really take issue with is number 4. "I’m happy with how things are going on here in the ‘Wood."

The implication here is that people only post on the Deck when they are unhappy with things in Lakewood. That couldn't be further from the truth. Look at the most popular threads on here. "Images in Lakewood," "Clouds got in the way." People were sharing photos of gorgeous things in Lakewood here on the Deck-- with great resolution-- before Facebook was born.(Facebook-posted photos never look great.)

But it's not just photos. Sean Wheeler's team has come up with an amazing innovative model of a 21st century "Maker" High school that is making waves all around the country. I posted about it here, when I posted about the Board meeting this past Monday at which it was presented. I'll post more about it later, and you can read about it this issue of the printed Lakewood Observer.

Good news. Interesting news. Lots of things we just want to share with each other. Or to put it another way, "Reasons we are happy about things going on in the 'Wood."

Number 4. is a poorly phrased survey item, one that seems designed to denigrate and mischaracterize the Deck. Speaking of things I don't like.

I DO like the chance to talk about what the Deck is, how it works, what's right and what's wrong, so in the end, thank you, whoever designed the survey (Matt?) for this opportunity.

More later! Because you know, I'm one of the dominant posters. You should have seen me when I first posted, how shy and scared I was.

But my favorite poster is Stan Austin. Or should I call him "Gentleman Stan." Thank you, Stan. If you are a longtime Deck reader, you know why.

Betsy Voinovich

"Not afraid of being alienated by friends, family, and folks I don’t even know." (Also a completely negative, and unfair, though pretty entertaining, characterization of the Deck.)

marklingm · Post by **marklingm** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:24 pm

Betsy,

City Hall paid the Pew Research Center to develop this poll through a grant issued by LakewoodAlive.

I guess I'm not sure I understand your points on this thread.

This thread is entitled, "Hey, Lakewood, Why Don’t More Of Us Post On The Deck More?"

I think you are looking for the thread entitled, "Hey, Lakewood, Why Do Some Of Us Post On The Deck More Than Others?"

Carry on.

Matt

Bill Call · Post by **Bill Call** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:21 pm

Matthew John Markling wrote:
City Hall paid the Pew Research Center to develop this poll through a grant issued by LakewoodAlive.

Why does City Hall care?

Who is City Hall?

marklingm · Post by **marklingm** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:43 pm

Bill Call wrote:
Matthew John Markling wrote:
City Hall paid the Pew Research Center to develop this poll through a grant issued by LakewoodAlive.

Why does City Hall care?

Who is City Hall?

If Bill Call can't grasp sarcasm, the 'Wood is doomed! :shock:

Rhetorically speaking of course. :wink:

marklingm · Post by **marklingm** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:21 am

In the interest of being "fair and balanced" the sister thread to this thread can be found at http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12149.

Note that City Hall did not actually pay the Pew Research Center to develop this poll through a grant issued by LakewoodAlive. Nor were any animals harmed in posting this thread.

Bill Call · Post by **Bill Call** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:24 am

Matthew John Markling wrote:
Bill Call wrote:
Matthew John Markling wrote:
City Hall paid the Pew Research Center to develop this poll through a grant issued by LakewoodAlive.

Why does City Hall care?

Who is City Hall?

If Bill Call can't grasp sarcasm, the 'Wood is doomed!

Rhetorically speaking of course.

I was hoping for a mini-scandal!

Which helps to answer your question. We can all nitpick decisions made at City Hall but for the last 5 years or so overall the City has been well run.

Under previous administrations it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

Betsy Voinovich · Post by **Betsy Voinovich** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:36 am

Matthew John Markling wrote:Betsy,

City Hall paid the Pew Research Center to develop this poll through a grant issued by LakewoodAlive.

I guess I'm not sure I understand your points on this thread.

This thread is entitled, "Hey, Lakewood, Why Don’t More Of Us Post On The Deck More?"

I think you are looking for the thread entitled, "Hey, Lakewood, Why Do Some Of Us Post On The Deck More Than Others?"

Carry on.

Matt

Hi Matt--

I think what's interesting about this poll is that you can see how questions or poll items can be used to manipulate people's thinking.

The iconic questions is, "When did you stop beating your wife?" A. A year ago. B. Two weeks ago. C. I still beat my wife.

There is no answer that allows you to say, "I DON'T BEAT MY WIFE."

Lately campaigns have gotten smart-- no-one wants to read campaign flyers with their bullet points telling you how great whatever you're supposed to vote for is.

Instead they have a "survey." You will read a survey, and be influenced by each of the questions, when you already would have thrown a flyer in the trash.

That's why the item "I'm happy with things in the 'Wood" is so powerful. The implication is that you wouldn't post on the Lakewood Observer Deck if you were happy. This is a mischaracterization that goes right by, causing people who read it to think: "Hmm, The Deck is only for people who are complaining I guess." Which is not true, but that point has been made and absorbed, without debate or comment, by the reader.

When a survey asks, "Are you happy with having old, out-moded schools in Lakewood, which don't meet 21st century standards?" Of course you say no.

The next question is, "Would you like new schools that have all the amenities?" Of course you say yes.

Is there a question that says, "Would you like to completely demolish and pay for two thirds of building new schools, or would you like keep the buildings we have and fix up the areas where there are problems? ie A new roof. A redone basement. Walls that are not movable."

You don't get that choice. You only get to be a bad guy who wants to condemn kids to old outdated rundown buildings, or build brand new schools.

It's an exercise in thought control.

I recently got a flyer that said, "I approve of the use of my child's image for campaign use." I could check the one box. There was no box that said, "I don't approve the use of my child's image for a campaign."

The implication to parents is that they have no choice but to say yes. That is the expectation. That is what everybody is doing, look at the form! You have to make your own box that says, "I do not approve."

This stuff is manipulative and insulting to the intelligence of the voters and citizens in Lakewood.

It is a TURN-OFF. It takes people who stop to think about it from happily supporting a bond to rebuild schools to a person saying, "Do you think I'm stupid?" Some of us know that it will take millions more to rebuild certain buildings and millions less to renovate others. The decision has been made to demolish and rebuild them all. Okay. Fair enough. But stop sending me stuff that says: "DON'T LOOK OVER HERE."

Guess what? We're going to start LOOKING OVER THERE.

Respect the intelligence of Lakewood voters please. Don't make surveys like the one Matt Markling created about the Lakewood Observation Deck.

It could have the result of causing people to VOTE NO.

And it really would be good to have all of our schools meeting 21st century standards. And it seems to be a good opportunity to have the state pay for not ONE HALF, but a little less than one third of the cost of the WHOLE THING. It's one half of this last phase, because we've already paid for the rest.

Please be honest with us.

We deserve it.

Betsy Voinovich

marklingm · Post by **marklingm** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:45 pm

Betsy,

With all due respect, this thread deals with trying to figure out why more folks don't post on the Deck.

Honestly, it appears that you are stuck in some time warp where "everyone" is posting on the Deck.

Hello! Your fellow Advisory Board Members don't even post on the Deck.

Why are you hijacking this thread?

Mike, Matt, Bill, and Bill made valid comments.

My head is hurting trying to sort through the thread drifts in your numerous posts.

You win!

Everyone is posting on the Deck.

Matt

Betsy Voinovich · Post by **Betsy Voinovich** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:00 pm

Hey Matt--

Sorry, I guess I did hijack the thread to a degree. I should start another one if I want to talk about manipulative surveys in general.

I think a lot of people post when there is a new issue to discuss-- the last topic like that was probably the recycling bin thread.

I think people like posting on Faceboob. I wish people would post the funny, inspirational or crazy things they post there, here, if they are about Lakewood. The Deck can be a great place to get to know each other and talk about big and small things.

And sometimes that happens. I'm actually hoping tonights storm doesn't produce photos for the Deck.

Anyway, to stay on topic, I agree with Matt Lee up there. When we need it to discuss issues, and tell it like it is from our own points of view, the Deck is the place.

Betsy Voinovich

Betsy Voinovich · Post by **Betsy Voinovich** » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:09 pm

P.S.

I still don't like the way you framed some of the survey items because of how it mischaracterizes the Deck. And I'm still glad you started the thread because it's interesting-- and the survey was funny. Picturing my family not talking to me anymore because I posted on the Deck.

BV