Are Occupy Cleveland protesters smarter than...

[Roy Pitchford]

their Wall Street counterparts?? I hope so, but I'm not sure that's raising the bar very high.

[Ryan Salo]

http://www.justin.tv/occupycleveland

I watched a few minutes of this earlier and it was pathetic. I hope they show more of this tomorrow.

That is a great video Roy.

[Grace O'Malley]

Gosh, all I need to do is come here and watch for Roy and Ryan's posts and I never need to check in at Fox News to see what the latest whine is about!

[Jim O'Bryan]

http://www.justin.tv/occupycleveland

I watched a few minutes of this earlier and it was pathetic. I hope they show more of this tomorrow.

That is a great video Roy.

Great video?

Ryan

What was the pathetic part?

Just asking.


.

[Brian Pedaci]

It seems to me that the repetitive chanting displayed in the video may have been meant as an impromptu amplification system, so the crowd around could understand better what the speaker was saying.

[Tim Liston]

Someone correct me if I am wrong….

When the Occupy movement started in earnest 3-4 weeks ago it was largely young people very upset at “Wall Street.” Money spent on bank bailouts and (generally speaking) us older folk who are pretty much usurping opportunity for those much younger than us. Older folk have pretty much commandeered most of the wealth, in the form of the national debt, and in the presumably-obligated but yet-to-be-funded Social Security and Medicare “entitlements.” Of course the younger people, as right as they might be in their grievances, are pretty disorganized.

Remember that the young folk were largely responsible for electing "hope and change" Obama, who pretty much the day after he was elected made sure that the financial industry that funded his campaign would see no harm. Other than Lee Farkas (who I'm sure not one of you know but is probably the most notable person jailed as a result of the recent financial crisis) how many orange jumpsuits have you seen? Young folk who are finding it pretty hard to find a decent job, even with a college education. That has to be pretty dispiriting.

Then what I have seen in the last week or so is the effing unions (mostly public employee unions) co-opting the Occupy movement. Signs like “No To Issue 2” at yesterday’s rally, and according to the PD this morning, a letter carrier (who probably makes $75K plus in salary and benefits) whining about their lot. Since when was this about unions?

No wonder it’s so disorganized. Here we have a constituency that is hard to organize itself in the first place, many of whom are not even old enough to vote, infiltrated by the likes of the SEIU and other unions, and who knows who else who can hold up a sign.

And of course the mainstream media is very complicit. Pretty much everything that you see on TV and hear on the radio comes from one of only a handful of Fortune 500 media corporations. How likely are they to sympathize with those who oppose the status quo? The belittling of the Occupy movement by the MSM is both laughable and contemptible.

I feel very badly for our younger generation. They have been handed enormous debt obligations before many can even find a job. I am doing what I can to take care of my two children and their well-being, and relative to the rest of their peers they are pretty fortunate. But those who belittle their efforts, I hold in contempt.

Like I said, somebody correct me if I am wrong…..

[Roy Pitchford]

Someone correct me if I am wrong….

When the Occupy movement started in earnest 3-4 weeks ago it was largely young people very upset at “Wall Street.” Money spent on bank bailouts and (generally speaking) us older folk who are pretty much usurping opportunity for those much younger than us. Older folk have pretty much commandeered most of the wealth, in the form of the national debt, and in the presumably-obligated but yet-to-be-funded Social Security and Medicare “entitlements.” Of course the younger people, as right as they might be in their grievances, are pretty disorganized.

Bank bailouts, yes. National debt, not that I've seen. I've seen pictures of signs where people want the government to NOT touch Medicare, Social Security, etc.
If its going to be around when they need it, someone will have to touch it.




Note: He's shackled by student loans, not the national debt.

Then what I have seen in the last week or so is the effing unions (mostly public employee unions) co-opting the Occupy movement. Signs like “No To Issue 2” at yesterday’s rally, and according to the PD this morning, a letter carrier (who probably makes $75K plus in salary and benefits) whining about their lot. Since when was this about unions?

Its always been about the unions. SEIU's Steven Lerner talked about protests like this more than 6 months ago. Want the audio and video? I'll get it for you.
Ask yourself this:
If these people are so poor and disorganized, how can they publish a 4-color newspaper (The Occupied Wall Street Journal) or hire a marketing agency like AdBusters? Who's paying to have food dropped off at the parks where the protesters are staying?
They've been funded since the beginning.

And of course the mainstream media is very complicit. Pretty much everything that you see on TV and hear on the radio comes from one of only a handful of Fortune 500 media corporations. How likely are they to sympathize with those who oppose the status quo? The belittling of the Occupy movement by the MSM is both laughable and contemptible.

What MSM are you watching? What I've heard is painting a lovely picture of how great these protesters are, in contrast to the "racist, gun-toting haters" of the Tea Party.

If the MSM wanted to paint a negative picture, let me ask, wouldn't they have played this?

I feel very badly for our younger generation. They have been handed enormous debt obligations before many can even find a job. I am doing what I can to take care of my two children and their well-being, and relative to the rest of their peers they are pretty fortunate. But those who belittle their efforts, I hold in contempt.

Are you referring to the same debts you mentioned before or some other kind of debt? The only debt I've seen them complaining about is student loans and in that situation, why are they mad at the banks?? The banks didn't force them to get the loans. They choose to go to universities and colleges. College tuitions have gone up faster than inflation for the last 30 years.

They have the right to peaceably protest, but they are not demonstrating that they are NOT simply the useful idiots who are being played by larger interests.

[Tim Liston]

Like I said I am not claiming to be right. This Occupy thing has been disorganized and co-opted from the start. So who knows, anybody can point to any sign to support their contention. What I *am* asserting that our young people are being completely taken advantage of. $15 trillion in racked up debt and around $70 trillion in promises that us older folk have made to ourselves. Neither of which have one penny in backing.

Roy I presume you do not have children. If you did you might feel differently. I recommend a little more compassion and empathy for those who will inherit the mess that has been made.

I am also asserting that Obama seduced them, then day one sold them down the river. I think of people like Ivor who was so supportive and is being hurt the most by current policy. I just wish the best for them.

[ryan costa]

Hopefully there was no Slam Poetry.

Social Security is running a 2.6 trillion dollar surplus. First it was funded, then de-funded.

These protestors are about thirty years too late.

I'd better go grab the microphone. Soon as I find my old Alex Harvey sweater. "Hello, Americans. Reaganomics is a lie. Do you want most of what we have? We need income tax tables closer to the Eisenhower years. and the Tariffs of the Mckinley era. and Teddy Roosevelt to break the big banks apart and repeal NAFTA and WTO. Too Many kids are going to college: so don't worry about paying for it. Good luck, HaHaHaHaHa".

[Jim O'Bryan]

Like I said I am not claiming to be right. This Occupy thing has been disorganized and co-opted from the start. So who knows, anybody can point to any sign to support their contention. What I *am* asserting that our young people are being completely taken advantage of. $15 trillion in racked up debt and around $70 trillion in promises that us older folk have made to ourselves. Neither of which have one penny in backing.

Roy I presume you do not have children. If you did you might feel differently. I recommend a little more compassion and empathy for those who will inherit the mess that has been made.

I am also asserting that Obama seduced them, then day one sold them down the river. I think of people like Ivor who was so supportive and is being hurt the most by current policy. I just wish the best for them.

Tim

You know, I have had this weird err feeling since the start of this. Kind of like the 6 month
of the Tea Party, when suddenly you realize, pawns getting their chains pulled, and strings
manipulated. But them I am a conspiracy freak.

I have this feeling we will find this movement as "unorganic" as the Tea Party Movement.
I think it was the third or fourth day when I heard mention of catering trucks and port-o-potties.

This is not to say that many in both the Tea Party and Occupy movements, are not serious
or without valid points. If you look at the larger picture, with the success and little
investment the Tea Party has, why wouldn't other similar movements arrive on the scenes.

But what is the end game?

But, are you sure Ivor is being hurt by Obama? I mean it is not the Change, or Hope I voted
for. The Change and Hope I voted for would have told the Right to sit down and be quiet
for the first two years. Instead, the man let himself get tied up by some of the most
pathetic political figures I have ever seen.

But, that is merely my opinion.

FWIW.

[Roy Pitchford]

Like I said I am not claiming to be right. This Occupy thing has been disorganized and co-opted from the start. So who knows, anybody can point to any sign to support their contention. What I *am* asserting that our young people are being completely taken advantage of. $15 trillion in racked up debt and around $70 trillion in promises that us older folk have made to ourselves. Neither of which have one penny in backing.

I'm not disagreeing with you. The debt and the future liabilities in Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are going to burden this country in ways we can't even fathom.

My assertion is that the majority of these current protesters are "useful idiots" in every sense of the phrase. In creating that video, I wasn't delving into the issues, just the fact that the protesters are acting like robots.

Roy I presume you do not have children. If you did you might feel differently. I recommend a little more compassion and empathy for those who will inherit the mess that has been made.

No, I do not have any children.
Do I feel bad for the future? Absolutely. I'm 31, so I probably have a good 60-70 years left in me. I've got my part to play in that future.
However, at the same time, I feel its a disservice to allow people to be manipulated and used to ends that they do not see. How many Germans said nothing while their Jewish neighbors were disappearing? Too many.

[Will Brown]

I think when you see a "spontaneous" demonstration with printed signs, you have to ask who printed the signs. I think these demonstrations started when a lot of people completed their education, but could not find the jobs they expected to find. Someone has channeled that unhappiness into a protest against Wall Street; it could as easily have been channeled against the government, big oil, the media, or the educational system. I suspect if you interviewed some of the protesters, you would find that they have little idea of how Wall Street works, and will just parrot the soundbites they have been taught.

I just hope this doesn't turn into another crystal night.

[ryan costa]

I think when you see a "spontaneous" demonstration with printed signs, you have to ask who printed the signs. I think these demonstrations started when a lot of people completed their education, but could not find the jobs they expected to find. Someone has channeled that unhappiness into a protest against Wall Street; it could as easily have been channeled against the government, big oil, the media, or the educational system. I suspect if you interviewed some of the protesters, you would find that they have little idea of how Wall Street works, and will just parrot the soundbites they have been taught.

I just hope this doesn't turn into another crystal night.

Wall Street has led the way in successfully lobbying for things that are bad: Reaganomics, NAFTA, WTO. and the deregulation that allowed big banks and traders to innovate themselves into temporary windfalls and titanic public bailouts. So, it is worth protesting.

The mortgage-backed security and its trading came into being in the early 80s. It was great at luring most Savings and Loans into self-destruction. It took a break of a few years before innovators could think of ways to get it going again. the subsequent results were again catastrophic. If it makes you feel better, we have a 40 year surplus of empty homes and apartment buildings. Is this an asset, or a liability?

The spectre of future social security and medicare "liabilities" are overstated to obscure
present bad policies for present expenditures.

The apologists for Reaganomics, NAFTA, the new globalism, and WTO generally act in accord marketing Higher Education to compete in the Global Super Economy of the future. When you market junk, you are going to sell a lot of junk.

The Smart Folks who set policy occasionally understood that passing NAFTA would be a weapon of mass destruction inflicted on MEXICO, and millions of economic refugees would stream across the border. And they understood that someone else could worry about how legal to make those refugees later. The refugees are a great political foil. Voters will remain too pre-occupied with refugees to vote down Reaganomics, NAFTA, the WTO, and invading the next Iraq.

[Jim O'Bryan]

However, at the same time, I feel its a disservice to allow people to be manipulated and used to ends that they do not see. How many Germans said nothing while their Jewish neighbors were disappearing? Too many.

Why go back that far? What about Iraq, both times?

This is what I do not get. You hold a President accountable for lying about a sexual act between
two consenting adults. He lied, and should have been held accountable.

But not a peep, when a President, and Vice President, lie, over throw 200 years of
non-imperialistic aggression, for lies, and misstruths that not only broke America
while their close friends prospered at all of our expenses.

Not a peep.

Nothing but support for these transgressions against America.

I just do not get it.

FWIW

[Jim O'Bryan]

At the campground on Public Square


The night gathering.


LO reporter Nadhal Eadeh talks with one of the spokespeople.

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