Nothing But Pure Ignorance

[Shawn Juris]

The timing is fine and the reason is okay. My question I guess was more procedural. As I understand it the proposal's intention was to discuss all options. It has certainly raised some interesting points. It'll be fun to watch if it's handled intelligently with sound reason, facts and figures or if it's just another emotionally driven bout (that goes for both sides).

Speaking of which I'd be interested in how a site such as this could assist the enforcement problem that seems to exist. Since part of the argument against the ban is that the leash laws including use of muzzles and insurance requirements for certain breeds are not enforced how can the public assist in this matter? Would it make sense to have a map created flagging all dogs registered in the city with red flags marking those which are listed as dangerous breeds and need special attention? If you know that your neighbor has a dog and it isn't listed then you could rightfully say that they have not registered properly. An odd point was made about a pit bull ban hurting the sale of houses somehow, I would think that it would put many potential residents mind at ease to know that the city was really doing what it could to prevent or at the absolute least reduce or transfer the risk to the insurance carrier. It seems far better to me to be proactive rather than gripe about how bad a job someone did after the incident has occured. Afterall, isn't this the reason behind block watches and other such programs?

[Brad Hutchison]

Anyone know if there was any discussion of this at the council meeting last night?

[Beajay Michaud]

Personally I don’t think it is anyone right to tell me what type of dog I can or can’t own. This is still America, right?

[dl meckes]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5joR6 ... AD916M6UO2

The following is copied from the Google link:

Dutch government to lift 25-year ban on pit bulls

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) — The Dutch government says it will lift a long-standing ban on pit bulls because it did not lead to any decrease in bite incidents.

[Ed Dickson]

This is exactly what they are finding out in Denver as well. Who's more vicious, the dogs or the people who went door to door in Denver and pulled people's pets from the home to kill them?

Thanks for posting this. Don't have time to go into it now but I just read concilmen Powers Q&A in the Observer this past weekend and found some things that I would consider seriously innaccurate. I'll expound at a later time.

[Shawn Juris]

Personally I don’t think it is anyone right to tell me what type of dog I can or can’t own. This is still America, right?

Yeah, and I should be able to crap wherever I want to and drive a car without a license or insurance and swear at small children and expect everyone else to pay for my poor decisions... oh wait that's right there are rules and laws which help us to maintain either societal norms or protect the public from the irresponsible and inconsiderate segments of the population by establishing rules and punishments. To this point, anyone can have whatever breed they want as long as they follow the rules put in place by those that have been elected through democratic elections (because we live in America). The government has come up with leash laws, the insurance companies have by and large determined that some breeds are too much exposure to take on. It's their private business and has nothing to do with being in America. Now if all these dog owners want to develop their own product and start their own insurance carrier that will place this policy and pay for the medical bills and defense costs, then go for it. It is America where you are free to start your own business if you chose to do so.

[Brad Hutchison]

Thanks for posting this. Don't have time to go into it now but I just read concilmen Powers Q&A in the Observer this past weekend and found some things that I would consider seriously innaccurate. I'll expound at a later time.

One thing that jumped out to my dad (who's a veterinarian) when I showed him Councilman Powers's article was his reliance on testimony from rescue organizations. In his opinion, rescue organizations are going to have a higher percentage of "bad" dogs, and are therefore not a representative sample.

My brief rebuttal to Mr. Powers should be in tomorrow's Observer, as far as I know.

[Colleen Wing]

How did the meeting go tonight?

[Jim O'Bryan]

My brief rebuttal to Mr. Powers should be in tomorrow's Observer, as far as I know.

You and Brian have a full page

Or online here - http://lakewoodobserver.com/pdfs/Observ ... e%2012.pdf

Thanks for the submission, and your dad is one of the finest vets I have ever had the pleasure to deal with. Tell him the O'Bryans said hello.

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[Steve Hoffert]

Personally I don’t think it is anyone right to tell me what type of dog I can or can’t own. This is still America, right?

Yeah, and I should be able to crap wherever I want to and drive a car without a license or insurance and swear at small children and expect everyone else to pay for my poor decisions... oh wait that's right there are rules and laws which help us to maintain either societal norms or protect the public from the irresponsible and inconsiderate segments of the population by establishing rules and punishments. To this point, anyone can have whatever breed they want as long as they follow the rules put in place by those that have been elected through democratic elections (because we live in America). The government has come up with leash laws, the insurance companies have by and large determined that some breeds are too much exposure to take on. It's their private business and has nothing to do with being in America. Now if all these dog owners want to develop their own product and start their own insurance carrier that will place this policy and pay for the medical bills and defense costs, then go for it. It is America where you are free to start your own business if you chose to do so.

The issue of defecating wherever you please in public is different than where you do it in private. The drivers license is for revenue generation and control over the population and does not require you to be a competent driver. Insurance is required because the corporate insurance lobby enticed their whores to pass these laws which are easily sidestepped by that segment of the population that would not carry insurance anyway.

There is a distinct difference and protection provided for private vs public actions as addressed in the fourth amendment. The government constantly encroaches in our private lives which was clearly not the intent of those who founded this country. There is no democratically elected government unless "none of the above" is one of the choices.

If insurance companies could drop everyone who has a terminal illness, any driver who was ever in an accident, homeowners that suffered any weather related losses or for that matter anyone that they would have to pay a penny on they would. THERE IN IT FOR THE MONEY. They don't insure certain dogs because a subset of the population uses these dogs for fighting and they might loose some money.

Unfortunately the United States is being run politicians that have little or no knowledge of the issues that they are legislating on. Corporations such as banks, defense contractors and insurance companies farm candidates from both parties, disenfranchise independent ones and put them before the people to give the appearance that the common man has some choice.

The fourth amendment states:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


If your dog gets loose and hurts someone in public than there are legal ramifications to the individual who allowed this to happen but laws should be based upon intent and probable cause of AN INDIVIDUAL not an entire group such as dog owners.

[Jim O'Bryan]

These are new signs, I believe.





Highlands New Jersey



New York!


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[Valerie Molinski]

Well done, Brad. I just read the article.

[Joe Ott]

Doesn't the city have bigger problems to deal with than this?

I am not a huge fan of so-called pit bulls, but I can't believe the resources being wasted on this as the city is crumbling around us and continuing its downward spiral to the point of no return.

For the dog lovers out there, go home and hug your dog tonight. You never know when your vet is going to give you horrible news totally out of the blue like your otherwise perfectly happy and healthy family member has osteosarcoma and has 1 to 2 months to live.

[Rhonda loje]

What a beautiful dog! Good luck Joe!!

Rhonda

[Brad Hutchison]

Thanks for the submission, and your dad is one of the finest vets I have ever had the pleasure to deal with. Tell him the O'Bryans said hello.

Thanks, Jim, for printing my article and for your compliments to my dad. I'm very proud of him.

Well done, Brad. I just read the article.

Thanks Valerie. Hopefully it helps. After reading Mr. Powers's new letter, I hope others are as concerned as I am about his apparent disregard for public opinion, insistence on generalizing populations, and reliance only on testimony from an organization that claims he is taking their quotes out of context.

I resent his implication that the people's opposition to his ban is taking the council's time away from more important things, and that we're somehow trivializing "human racism." Typical political deflection.