The Observation Deck

Grace O'Malley wrote:Really?

Then why is the FBI offering a reward for two black males?

Really. Where did any one "blame it on two big black men"? It did not happen.

Rick

He dropped her off because it was on the way to the hospital.....he didn't go out to Crocker or something.....
Is it strange? Yeah, I guess so. But SO WHAT! I think (in Lakewood) a shooting and a car-jacking are a whole lot stranger.....or at least they used to be.

Jeff

Rick Uldricks wrote:

Frank Murtaugh wrote:

The only "fish smell" rises from the ludicrous (at best) post which twists and spins the known facts and strangely blames the victim.

OK Frank, You're right. There never was a reference to any "Big Black Men". The one that actually has a description, is described as being 5'8", medium build -- not big, but yes, described as being black.



Perhaps you can explain this also, and keep in mind, I'm not blaming the victim here, this just strikes me as being quite odd.


From article in the PD:
http://www.cleveland.com/crime/plaindea ... xml&coll=2

Despite his wound, the 25-year FBI veteran was able to drive the friend home to Clarence Avenue and then drive himself to Lakewood Hospital, where he was treated, and released that night.

He dropped her off, THEN went to the hospital?!?! I don't know about you, but if one of my friends was shot while driving me home, we would go directly to the hospital and I would wait for them in the Emergency Room. But that's just me. I hope that's not too ludicrous.

What you say makes perfect sense. It would be your choice.

The "bullet hit Vigneaux's left pectoral muscle and exited near his ribs, police said". If the woman lived nearby. I see nothing odd about dropping her off at home on the way to the hospital in the middle of the night for treatment of a relatively superficial wound. It was the victim's choice.

I do find it ludicrous for the original poster to imply that there is something sinister about what the victim did after he was shot. The injured victim may have simply thought the woman victim had been "rattled" enough and would be best off at home, rather than waiting for hours at the ER as many of us have done. Who knows?

Focusing on the word "big" is just a smokescreen. You can re-read my post and note that I was referring to them as a common target, not as the actual description given by the agent.

But while we're on that subject, he definitely described them as black. In addition, as a trained and long-standing law officer, I find his behavior suspect. He left the scene of the crime, drove the "companion" home, and then went to the hospital. Just when was the crime reported?

Obviously, no sense sitting there if you are attacked, but once he pulled away, why didn't he call the police to secure the area? Why was the woman taken home and not interviewed ASAP by the police? I guess I don't expect him to chase after the men, but once he pulled away, they must have run or entered a vehicle. Did he give chase? According to you Frank, it was a "superficial wound."

Why was he using an official vehicle during an off-duty time? Where did the weapon go?

Until We get more facts, I'm not buying it. If my kid gave me a story like that, he'd be grounded for life.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Focusing on the word "big" is just a smokescreen. You can re-read my post and note that I was referring to them as a common target, not as the actual description given by the agent.

But while we're on that subject, he definitely described them as black. In addition, as a trained and long-standing law officer, I find his behavior suspect. He left the scene of the crime, drove the "companion" home, and then went to the hospital. Just when was the crime reported?

Obviously, no sense sitting there if you are attacked, but once he pulled away, why didn't he call the police to secure the area? Why was the woman taken home and not interviewed ASAP by the police? I guess I don't expect him to chase after the men, but once he pulled away, they must have run or entered a vehicle. Did he give chase? According to you Frank, it was a "superficial wound."

Why was he using an official vehicle during an off-duty time? Where did the weapon go?

Until We get more facts, I'm not buying it. If my kid gave me a story like that, he'd be grounded for life.

I completely agree, Grace. Parts of this story do not make sense. Because this happened on my street, I certainly do not have a "SO WHAT!" attitude about this incident.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Focusing on the word "big" is just a smokescreen. You can re-read my post and note that I was referring to them as a common target, not as the actual description given by the agent.

But while we're on that subject, he definitely described them as black. In addition, as a trained and long-standing law officer, I find his behavior suspect. He left the scene of the crime, drove the "companion" home, and then went to the hospital. Just when was the crime reported?

Obviously, no sense sitting there if you are attacked, but once he pulled away, why didn't he call the police to secure the area? Why was the woman taken home and not interviewed ASAP by the police? I guess I don't expect him to chase after the men, but once he pulled away, they must have run or entered a vehicle. Did he give chase? According to you Frank, it was a "superficial wound."

Why was he using an official vehicle during an off-duty time? Where did the weapon go?

Until We get more facts, I'm not buying it. If my kid gave me a story like that, he'd be grounded for life.

Who are "them as a common target"? Are you referring to senior citizens and women neighbors who have been attacked recently by useless low life thugs? They are the only targets that immediately come to mind.

It's simple. The agent left to go to the Lakewood ER. He probably got there in three minutes or less. A wise choice. Better, much better than chasing armed assailants while you are wounded.

Who said the agent's weapon went anywhere? Read the published explanation.

I have no idea why a Bureau vehicle was in use and I am not jumping to a unfounded, ill informed conclusion.

We don't know the details, so we'd all be hunting and pecking. We don't know the extent of the wound. Gunshots can be of course lethal, but luckily this apparently was superficial. To what degree, we don't really know. We don't really know how much pain or bleeding the agent was experiencing.

Unless I missed something, only the agent knows those details.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

maybe this was an undercover drug buy gone wrong

purely speculation and I wish the gunshot victim healthy recovery

Frank Murtaugh wrote: Who are "them as a common target"? Are you referring to senior citizens and women neighbors who have been attacked recently by useless low life thugs? They are the only targets that immediately come to mind.

Are you saying that Lakewood is suffering from a rash of attacks on seniors and women and that no one from the Lakewood police or city hall has alerted the community? How many and when? This is frightening information.

Beajay Michaud wrote:If you drive down Detroit from 117th it looks like the ghetto.

Something tells me you've never been to an actual ghetto.

Are you saying that Lakewood is suffering from a rash of attacks on seniors and women and that no one from the Lakewood police or city hall has alerted the community? How many and when? This is frightening information.

I agree. Is this anecdotal information, hearsay, or factual? Unless its based on fact, it is a spurious statement.

As for the FBI shooting "story," the reason I think it should be investigated fully is that most of the recent dramatic crime events that drew unfavorable attention to Lakewood were really not Lakewood problems.

For example, the young man on Granger who was killed by SWAT was actually an Avon Lake man staying temporarily with relatives in Lakewood. The man who went crazy on Hird (or thereabouts) was also a Lorain county man. The couple arrested recently for selling stolen video games at James Games is a Rocky River couple who just happened to run the operation out of a Lakewood storefront.

The news coverage of these events either failed to mention or downplayed the real source of these criminals. All we heard was Lakewood, and the impression was of a dangerous city filled with out of control people.

Is it really?

If the latest event (the FBI agent shooting) turns out to be factually different from what is currently claimed, then I want it publicized just as much as the initial event reporting.

Suzanne Metelko wrote:And we still don't have an answer on the drug raid from two weeks ago that took place on the corner of Wyandotte. Police cars, dogs, people arrested, police tape, a reported shooting and no one wants to talk to the neighborhood about that.

These people are justifiably scared and angry. The city has failed them.

???

I've been following this thread, and frankly, I'm a bit confused (not an unusual situation).

Grace and Rick seem to be concerned that we're not getting the whole story about the incident, which may well be true. But, my confusion is about this concern over the underlying focus on the incident itself. So, help me out here.

Is there a concern that the FBI agent was on Wyandotte doing something other than dropping off a passenger, such as some kind of undercover operation?

Is there a concern that the FBI agent was, himself, doing something inappropriate, thereby justifying or provoking the incident?

Is there a concern that there was no incident, and that the entire episode was manufactured to provide the agent with a "cover story" for some other nefarious activity?

It just seems to me that the overriding concern here should be with apprehension of a couple of thugs, and not an examination of the victim's character/motives/behavior.

Help me out here.

Jeff

Rick Uldricks wrote:

Suzanne Metelko wrote:And we still don't have an answer on the drug raid from two weeks ago that took place on the corner of Wyandotte. Police cars, dogs, people arrested, police tape, a reported shooting and no one wants to talk to the neighborhood about that.

These people are justifiably scared and angry. The city has failed them.

???

Rick

Through my sources I cannot find any information on any shooting, discharge of a weapon of drug bust on Wynadote Ave. in the last three weeks.

As far as the FBI, I can think of many reasons why the FBI would not want to come up with all the information if it is an ongoing investigation.

FWIW


.

Jim, I'll be happy to introduce you to the residents that witnessed that one. One the other hand, what have you found out about Frank's contention that Lakewood's seniors and women are being attacked?

Suzanne