The Observation Deck

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
But I do have my opinion, and I will express my opinion. I would never stop another member of the staff from expressing their opinion, or backing any candidate. That is the American way, that is the Observer way.

So Terry's opinion isn't as valid as your's? Liberals have made a cottage industry out of doing exactly the same thing and been held up as heros, speaking their first amendment rights, it's the American way, right?

Sounds like another double standard if you ask me.

And please don't tell me how you seek out other points of view. While this may be true, as we both know, you don't want to publish it.


Joe

Jim Dustin,

You hateful words mean nothing to me. I understand you dont agree with me but you personal attacks are unwarrented. So sad dude.

Have a nice day and God Bless America!

As a member of this board, I see nothing but irony when a poster on the Lakewood Observer Observation Deck calls for a boycott of LO advertisers. While I strongly disagree with a boycott, calling for one to express your beliefs is a time tested method of protest.

I have a problem when a poster baselessly accuses others of wanting to assassinate the President.

I also have a problem when posters wish to become armchair psychoanalysts and feel free to respond to posts with personal attacks.

This is not condusive to civil discussion, which was the hope of the Deck when it began.

I hope that those who have posted in this thread in particular will rethink the language that has been used.

Is mud-slinging the way we want this board to go? I understand that humans get excited in the "rough and tumble" of discussions and I'm certainly not Snow White (or as Mae West said, "I used to be Snow White, but I drifted...") but I feel as though our good neighbors here have had their cages rattled and are responding in a less than optimal manner.

I believe we can do better.

We're full into the seasonal time of renewal. I ask for renewed dedication to the concepts of neighborliness and civility.

Joseph Milan wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
But I do have my opinion, and I will express my opinion. I would never stop another member of the staff from expressing their opinion, or backing any candidate. That is the American way, that is the Observer way.

So Terry's opinion isn't as valid as your's? Liberals have made a cottage industry out of doing exactly the same thing and been held up as heros, speaking their first amendment rights, it's the American way, right?

Sounds like another double standard if you ask me.

And please don't tell me how you seek out other points of view. While this may be true, as we both know, you don't want to publish it.


Joe

Joe

You tell me if his opinion is valid? You have been on the board. Read the opening statement that started this.

And what is another double standard?

You, like Terry have accused us time and again of things that are simply not true. When pushed, all I hear or read is a bunch of mumbo jumbo, that has no basis in facts.

While Terry has every right to take the stances he does with the war, the country, etc. What he has accused the Lakewood Observer of is a bold face lie, that is represented as fact. Actually as stated by Ken Warren it is libelous. Not only is it libelous, with the call for boycott on false grounds, not opinions, it can be seen as direct attack on the financial well being. While one of my lawyers said "terrorism" I tend to think it is merely a newbie, that has not taken the time to appreciate how open this board is. Let's not forget, this is a civic venture, and the boycott will not slow it down. The website is on a server we are paid up on for years, in an effort to get a good price. The website, designed by DL Meckes, Dan Ott and Rami Daud, is almost like a Krell Machine in Fantastic Planet, it could run itself without any of us. Also, something few have not noticed, the Board, and the Website carries no advertisers. We did this for the readers, but it also insultates us from attacks like this.

Joe, as for you, you are just desperate to attack any liberal. Which is well within you rights, and will not be deleted on the board, or hidden. Have you noticed your letter has stayed at the top of the letters on the front page? No attempt to bury it, hide it, changed it. It is also available through Google. Please let's be fair.

Attack me, but not the board.


.

Joe wrote

So Terry's opinion isn't as valid as your's

Problem is, Terry didn't express an opinion, but made a representation of fact. Very different things.

Jeff "I studied this stuff in Law School" Endress

....and doesn't sound male, but I'm just throwing that one in as intuition

Good call.

~Charyn

Jim-

You forget what a small town Lakewood can be! There are usually only two degrees of separation between Lakewoodites.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Joe

You tell me if his opinion is valid? You have been on the board. Read the opening statement that started this.

And what is another double standard?

Jim,

I did read the first post;It is his or her opinion that you have an agenda.

I stayed out of this conversation because I had no idea what Terry was talking about. Terry seems to think the observer has an agenda and because of that, will not be supporting the sponsors. So be it.

My only question is what's so different from what Terry is doing than what GLADD did to Dr Laura? I could list numbers of other protests against numbers of other conservatives who, just as Terry feels, the Observer has an agenda. Be it right or wrong, that's Terry's opinion and she's taking action on it.
With the example above, GLADD took something out of context tried to shut down a radio show. Perhaps Terry is taking something out of context, I don't know. Regardless, it's an opinion.

You yourself have said the Plain Dealer has an agenda; you could take action on that if you wanted to (perhaps you did by starting the board and paper).

The double standard is that liberals are allowed to do this but you're not just saying Terry is wrong for saying it, you're saying it's a criminal offense for what is suggested.



BTW- Yes, I know you burried my opinion piece deep inside the website. I don't think, as I have said before, if I was writing about anyone else, I (and anyone else who wanted to read it) wouldn't have to dig so deep to find it. You told me yourself you didn't want to have anything said that could hurt your hero; wassn't not posting in on the front page your own protest of what I had written?

Joe

About boycotts...

Let's not forget both sides have tried this tactic, with varying success. The Christan right tried to boycott Disney and failed, tried to boycott Ford and failed, and pressured CBS not to show the Reagan biopic and won.

The gay-lesbian alliance put pressure to bear on stations carrying Dr. Laura's TV show (they didn't bother with radio much). The show was incredibly weak, from everything I heard and saw. And TV is a different animal. The sponsors are bigger, and bigger sponsors are less inclined to get involved in controversy. That's why Limbaugh's TV show died a quick death, too.

I figure, if a media outlet or a sponsor caves in to pressure that quickly, the product must not have been much of a draw in the first place. Long live the Observer!

Hey Jimmy,

I will continue with freewill and free speech and encourage others to do the same. I can take your immature behavior and unwarranted personal attacks. I am amazed your a Publisher of a paper and you act in this me.

If you think I am fake, I invite you to set up a meeting between just me and you. Can you bring it without all your buddies around you?
We'll see.


Happy Easter Everyone!!!

Terry

Joe:

Get a clue. You are a Kiwanian brother. This ain't about Doctor Laura and Gladd bags.

Heated civic debate about issues between dissenting neighbors is what this board is all about.

Do smears such as this lead to a more servicable citizenship?

terry batdorf wrote:Charyn,

Sorry you feel that way. I was just matching my liberal counterparts. Fortunately, I havent sunk as low as the Bush haters that call to assassinate him. Those are your peers, open your eyes and look around.


Disappointed,

Terry

Again, my point is not about the boycott. It's about a smear with the brush of an unspeakable crime never spoken by anyone on the LO deck.

Now the smear takes on a life of its own and creates the dispossession of advertising revenue for a newspaper that most people in this city love, for a newspaper that has done more in one year to cover the good works of the Kiwanis Club than all the others combined for their history. (I am sorry Ms. Roberts to raise my Kiwanian claw in another swipe.)

Do you support this particular smear tactic of Mr. Batdorf, with its recourse to an unspeakable crime against our President, simply to strike a blow against persons of liberal opinion, those dialogical peers, those very neighbors with whom you are engaged on the LO deck?

I can't believe that you would.

Yours in the objects of Kiwanis,

Kenneth Warren

I count 16 posts by Terry since the beginning of the "boycott".

Lamest boycott ever!

Kenneth Warren wrote: for a newspaper that has done more in one year to cover the good works of the Kiwanis Club than all the others combined for their history. (I am sorry Ms. Roberts to raise my Kiwanian claw in another swipe.)

No need to apologize. You are entitled to your personal lens, as I am mine.

I just always make sure the batteries are fresh in my hubris detector.

However, one thing does puzzle me. Mr O continually insists the Observer is "not a newspaper" but the front page of the paper says, right there on top, "Lakewood's Only Newspaper". Which or who is correct?

The Sun Times and PD, flawed as they are, make no bones about it. They take their lumps. Like being pregnant, you can't be a "little bit" of a newspaper, it seems to me.

Terri Stated:

If you think I am fake, I invite you to set up a meeting between just me and you. Can you bring it without all your buddies around you?

now there's maturity.

"Meet you on the playground after 7th period!"

Jeff