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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:15 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
David Lay wrote:Also, the Senators named in the memo that held the press conference are the same Senators from states that gave huge tax breaks to foreign automakers to set up shop.
Hmmmm?
And let's not forget that most of those foreign car makers also received huge subsidies from their home governments after it became obvious, the world economy was crashing, after GWB pushed the "Go to war needlessly button" while asking what does this one do.
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:16 pm
by Stephen Eisel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI80QOuNgNE Who ruined this country? JOB you make me laugh....
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:20 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Jim O'Bryan wrote:David Lay wrote:Also, the Senators named in the memo that held the press conference are the same Senators from states that gave huge tax breaks to foreign automakers to set up shop.
Hmmmm?
And let's not forget that most of those foreign car makers also received huge subsidies from their home governments after it became obvious, the world economy was crashing, after GWB pushed the "Go to war needlessly button" while asking what does this one do.
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The war did not Bankrupt this country. The bailout did...
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:20 pm
by David Lay
Jim-
Regarding subsidies - you know why Toyota's hybrid engine is so good? Because the Japanese government
financed it.
It hardly seems fair to Detroit to compare its efforts in the hybrid arena to Toyota's. Chrysler's Press says when he was at Toyota, "the Japanese government paid for 100% of the development of the battery and hybrid system that went into the Toyota Prius."
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:21 pm
by Stephen Eisel
It would appear that the CAFE Standards did not help the Big 3.
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:26 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI80QOuNgNE Who ruined this country? JOB you make me laugh....
Stephen
Not me, I just bought a Buick, take delivery tomorrow.
$700 Billion+ for a war with a country that never attacked us. Even in our last war with them.
$700 Billion + for a bailout with no regulation
The gutting of nearly every social and education program in the past 8 years.
Then the handy work of every president since Regan to help industry move overseas.
I am not saying the Dems are not complicit, but this mugging, borders on insane.
If you ask me, the $700 billion was released, so that a select few could buy the Big Three for pennies on the dollar when they are forced into bankruptcy. The big depression once again, only this one was planned better. ie let friends salt some cash away, for the big crash.
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:42 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen
I could care less what Mitt makes.
However to give Wall Street Bankers(?) over a trillion with ZERO accountabllty, then string out every family connected with the auto business over the holidays for $14 billion.
Is cruel.
I also find it mildly amusing that after 10 years of republican over site, that using terms like Trillion and $700 billion for corporate welfare without flinching is a pretty strong statement of failure of that failed thought process in itself.
FWIW
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:53 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Stephen
I could care less what Mitt makes.
However to give Wall Street Bankers(?) over a trillion with ZERO accountabllty, then string out every family connected with the auto business over the holidays for $14 billion.
Is cruel.
I also find it mildly amusing that after 10 years of republican over site, that using terms like Trillion and $700 billion for corporate welfare without flinching is a pretty strong statement of failure of that failed thought process in itself.
FWIW
.
are we changing the subject? or is this just another truthless rant?
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:05 pm
by Stephen Eisel
$700 Billion+ for a war with a country that never attacked us. Even in our last war with them.

Sorry that I missed that rule

Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:11 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote: are we changing the subject? or is this just another truthless rant?
Nope
Just a step back to once again look at the larger picture.
What you look at is like The Surge. One part of a war that never had to be fought. Did "The Surge" work. Yes it did. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn. After 7 years of mismanagement and lies. We are supposed to only focus on "The Surge."
The is cause and effect way beyond this micro-analysis you propose.
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Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:28 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Yes it did. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn. After 7 years of mismanagement and lies.
more like the traitors in the media fought a propaganda war against its own country for political gain.
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:42 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote:Yes it did. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn. After 7 years of mismanagement and lies.
more like the traitors in the media fought a propaganda war against its own country for political gain.
huh?
huh?
huh?
War was built on lies.
Retaliation for 9/11 built on lies.
Energy Policy/Energy Price, built on lies.
War management, built on lies.
Rebuilding, more lies.
and on and on and on and on.
Trouble today is because the USA is so in debt, money market
tightens, not simply freddie and fannie, The fool broke the planet.
The worst president in history, who was also one of the worst
military man, and business man broke the planet.
See this is where you loose your credibility.
OK Bill Clinton lied.
When did GWB ever tell the truth?
Now to go one step farther and this is there and here. Many, many, many people saw all of this for what it was. Many others either bought the lies with no critical thought, or were complicit. Both of those groups need to step away from political office.
FWIW
.
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:51 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Stephen Eisel wrote:Yes it did. Even a blind squirrel can find an acorn. After 7 years of mismanagement and lies.
more like the traitors in the media fought a propaganda war against its own country for political gain.
huh?
huh?
huh?
War was built on lies.
Retaliation for 9/11 built on lies.
Energy Policy/Energy Price, built on lies.
War management, built on lies.
Rebuilding, more lies.
and on and on and on and on.
Trouble today is because the USA is so in debt, money market
tightens, not simply freddie and fannie, The fool broke the planet.
The worst president in history, who was also one of the worst
military man, and business man broke the planet.
See this is where you loose your credibility.
OK Bill Clinton lied.
When did GWB ever tell the truth?
Now to go one step farther and this is there and here. Many, many, many people saw all of this for what it was. Many others either bought the lies with no critical thought, or were complicit. Both of those groups need to step away from political office.
FWIW
.
Are you capable of telling the truth?
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:58 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Posted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:01 pm
by Stephen Eisel
http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/01fs/14906.htm
Saddam Hussein's Defiance of United Nations Resolutions
Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated seventeen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) designed to ensure that Iraq does not pose a threat to international peace and security. In addition to these repeated violations, he has tried, over the past decade, to circumvent UN economic sanctions against Iraq, which are reflected in a number of other resolutions. As noted in the resolutions, Saddam Hussein was required to fulfill many obligations beyond the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. Specifically, Saddam Hussein was required to, among other things: allow international weapons inspectors to oversee the destruction of his weapons of mass destruction; not develop new weapons of mass destruction; destroy all of his ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers; stop support for terrorism and prevent terrorist organizations from operating within Iraq; help account for missing Kuwaitis and other individuals; return stolen Kuwaiti property and bear financial liability for damage from the Gulf War; and he was required to end his repression of the Iraqi people. Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated each of the following resolutions
UNSCR 1441 - November 8, 2002
Called for the immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq and its prohibited weapons.
Iraq must provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA full access to Iraqi facilities, individuals, means of transportation, and documents.
States that the Security Council has repeatedly warned Iraq and that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations.
UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999
Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).
Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.
Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.
Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.
UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998
"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.
Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.