Legacy Red Herring

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:13 pm

Because it smacks of a double standard.

He's spewing the same tired BS about auto workers making $75 an hour when it's been proven wrong several times. BS like that is what doomed his campaign.

Senators make how much per year? Six figures?

You've got to be kidding me.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:15 pm

David, I do not want to see 242,000 autoworkers out of work. Both sides need to compromise so the Big 3 can stay in business for the long haul...

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:17 pm

The UAW has made plenty of concessions. They've allowed jobs to be cut, benefits and salaries to be cut.

Remember the buyouts at Ford? I sure do. Remember Brook Park Engine Plant 1 idling and the Casting Plant shutting down? My father-in-law retired early because of it. Now his entire retirement is in danger.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm

David Lay wrote:Because it smacks of a double standard.

He's spewing the same tired BS about auto workers making $75 an hour when it's been proven wrong several times. BS like that is what doomed his campaign.

Senators make how much per year? Six figures?

You've got to be kidding me.

The Senator is not asking for a handout.. The $75 an hour is a combo of wage and benefits. It is the cost that the big 3 have to pay.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:20 pm

If the whole $75/hour myth was true, my wife's 4 years of medical school would have been paid for. Instead, we'll have $250k in student loans staring us in the face when she graduates...

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:28 pm

David Lay wrote:If the whole $75/hour myth was true, my wife's 4 years of medical school would have been paid for. Instead, we'll have $250k in student loans staring us in the face when she graduates...

Again, it is a combo of wage and benefits...

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/sourcefi ... R_2007.pdf

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/sourcefi ... R_2007.pdf

http://bigthreeauto.procon.org/sourcefi ... R_2007.pdf

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:32 pm

Stephen Eisel wrote:You've got to be kidding me.

The Senator is not asking for a handout.. The $75 an hour is a combo of wage and benefits. It is the cost that the big 3 have to pay.[/quote]

OK

Deduct health care, because the other countries have national health care. Then deduct pension because of those offered in other countries, and we start to get near the truth.

German car makers carry the heaviest legacy costs.

I am not saying Detroit is doing things right. I am not saying the automakers have not perverted the system. But you cannot have it both ways. The Rs have fought cafe standards, have fought safety measures, have fought national health care.

The fact is Rs have had a mini, hard on against Unions since they started. Let's not forget this is the group that wanted FDR off the dime. :roll:

Let's get real.

.

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:42 pm

This has nothing to do with the R's and unions. If the Big 3 have expenses that are greater than their revenue then something needs to change so the Big 3 can stay in business. Business as usual will only waste the tax payers bail out money..

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:46 pm

JOB... I did not say "you've got to be kidding me"

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:47 pm

Stephen Eisel wrote:This has nothing to do with the R's and unions. If the Big 3 have expenses that are greater than their revenue then something needs to change so the Big 3 can stay in business. Business as usual will only waste the tax payers bail out money..

Stephen

That is not the truth and you know it. Look at the history of who stood in the way of better mileage, cafe standards, safety, etc.

Now the cry is to make cars more competitive!

This is nothing more than another attack on Unions and the middle class.

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David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:48 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I am not saying Detroit is doing things right. I am not saying the automakers have not perverted the system. But you cannot have it both ways. The Rs have fought cafe standards, have fought safety measures, have fought national health care.

Not to mention, these are many of the same Senators that approved a $700B bailout of Wall Street, with next to no restrictions, while they want to throw up all sorts of conditions to Detroit.

Meanwhile, what are the banks doing with the $700B? Buying other banks, instead of shoring up credit like they're supposed to.

Indeed, let's get real.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:04 pm

Stephen

I would go so far as to say the Rs have been conspiring to run the country into the ground, since it became obvious Obama would win.

The hate still coming out of the Rs media machine makes me sick. Newsmax for one. Read between the lines and they are willing to destroy the country just to say, "I told you so." One thing Mitt said today, is Why give them the $14 million they will hang on until Barack is sworn in, then it is his problem.

Nice, real American!

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David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:07 pm

Don't forget the memo that went around the Senate about the auto bailout!

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:08 pm

Also, the Senators named in the memo that held the press conference are the same Senators from states that gave huge tax breaks to foreign automakers to set up shop.

Hmmmm?

Stephen Eisel · Post by **Stephen Eisel** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:12 pm

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Stephen

I would go so far as to say the Rs have been conspiring to run the country into the ground, since it became obvious Obama would win.

The hate still coming out of the Rs media machine makes me sick. Newsmax for one. Read between the lines and they are willing to destroy the country just to say, "I told you so." One thing Mitt said today, is Why give them the $14 million they will hang on until Barack is sworn in, then it is his problem.

Nice, real American!

.

The country went into the toilet when the Dems let Fannie and Freddie run wild for the price of a donation to their political campaigns... sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI80QOuNgNE had the dems not stopped the vote at a committee level....