The Observation Deck

Bill Call wrote:I suppose its possible that disciplinary actions have no meaning and that all other districts are falsifying their data to make their districts look good

Possible, but not likely.

So, an important measure of product quality is 500% less than our competition, we are losing customers at an average rate 450% greater than our competition and our costs are at least 6% higher than our competition.

What? Me Worry?

If this was your business instead of your school district would you be concerned or satisfied?

Bill


Is it possible we are tougher on our students?

I always step into the wayback machine for this stuff.

I remember very well the schools in the early 70s, and it was very close to the inmates running the asylum.

As one of those "miscreants" Sandy mentioned in the North Parking Lot, usually on the wall, on in a van, never remember being in the driveway. Much of us had turned the school into the wild west.

I have to believe that Mrs. Donnelly as her students would call her, is much more tuned in to the truth of the Lakewood Schools than I.

Sandy, glad to see you jumping in. I know you have been sending messages through my wife, but I wanted to see the real deal posting. Thanks for your years of service, the Donnelly Scholarship Fund, and now taking part in the conversation.

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:Is it possible we are tougher on our students?

Sure. It's possible we are the only district enforcing the rules. But unlikely.

Students are stampeding out of the district. Is that a sign of confidence in the system? Is it a sign of satisfaction? If your business was losing customers, market share and had costs higher than the competition would you be pleased?

What would your response be if one of your employees pointed out that none of those things have any meaning and that even if they did the real solution is to give the employees more sick time and bigger raises.?

some kids just need a quick beating.

Or, if they are getting out of juvie hall on shock probation for serious assault, regular doses of Thorazine.

Bill

Can you substantiate your statement that "students are stampedeing out of the district?"

Regina Brett brings up some excellent points.
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/regina_brett/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/1173554106119330.xml&coll=2
The problems in my neighborhood have more to do with the owners (landlords) of the doubles and apartments. As a homeowner, I feel they are affecting my property value.

After all, it is the landlord who allows their tenants to leave garbage in their yards and on their porches, allow pets that bark all night, create used car lots on the street and in the driveways, etc.

Bill---- Stampeding??? Save your blarney for St. Patrick's Day. Stan

I see we are once again fighting the extremes.

That's unfortunate because it is our children that will suffer while we posture over our keyboards asserting our "rightness"

Might I submit that the district is putting forth numbers that are alarming and that require us - the citizens, parents, and taxpayers - to take a look at what is going on so that we can determine what actions we feel should, or should not, be taken?

Might I also suggest that these concerns are not necessarily the harbinger of the end of civilized society in Lakewood, nor of the death of our school system. That they are simply warning signs that should not be ignored.

Might I also suggest that Lakewood schools are doing a good job, in many cases a great job, and should be recognized for being a strong and vibrant part of our community.

But might I also dare to suggest that even while we give the school system its well deserved accolades we cannot sit idly by and pretend that all the world is a rainbow? That we cannot dare to pretend that everything is "just fine" and that the problems we face today are just the "same ol' same ol'"... and that doing so endangers our future, and our childrens future, just as much as reacting unsubstantiated fear would?

I suppose all of this is to say that I think Mrs. Donnelly and Mr. Call are both correct in their own ways and that we have nothing to gain by trying to make either of them "all right" or "all wrong". Instead, we have much to gain by bringing their diverse ideas together to try to understand where the disconnect lies.

JMO
Charyn

Rick, you are right. The root of the problem is with the landlords of questionable properties. As an example, often times these properties will have new misbehaving tenants moving in and out every few months.

Unfortunately, it is a lot harder to get rid of a landlord than it is to get rid of a tenant.

Doug

Charyn

Thankyou.

Might I also suggest that these concerns are not necessarily the harbinger of the end of civilized society in Lakewood, nor of the death of our school system. That they are simply warning signs that should not be ignored.

Might I also suggest that Lakewood schools are doing a good job, in many cases a great job, and should be recognized for being a strong and vibrant part of our community.

But might I also dare to suggest that even while we give the school system its well deserved accolades we cannot sit idly by and pretend that all the world is a rainbow? That we cannot dare to pretend that everything is "just fine" and that the problems we face today are just the "same ol' same ol'"... and that doing so endangers our future, and our childrens future, just as much as reacting unsubstantiated fear would?

That was my intent in my original post.

Jeff

Bill Call wrote:Students are stampeding out of the district. Is that a sign of confidence in the system? Is it a sign of satisfaction? If your business was losing customers, market share and had costs higher than the competition would you be pleased?

Bill, Bill, Bill

Are they stampeding out of the system or are the parents moving out of Lakewood?

I can remeber as a much younger Jim O'Bryan how often my parents asked me where I wanted to live and why I wanted to move. About the same anount of times I was able to pick what was being served that night for dinner.

Now I realize that many parents in an effort to be liked and loved by their children have given over many of their parenting duties to the kids, but moving?


FWIW


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Bill--- Can you point to any fact that indicates that there is an exodus of any student(s) to other systems?

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Bill, Bill, Bill

Jim, Jim, Jim!

It took 6 years for the Lakewood City Schools to lose 6% of its student population from 1995 to 2000. It took one year to lose 6% of its students from 2005 to 2006. The loses are accelerating at an accelerating rate.

If those losses continue at the current rate the district will lose 30% of its students over the next five years. That sounds like a stampede to me. At this time we have no reason to believe those loses won't continue.

I am just pointing out that maybe there is a reason our schools are losing students and maybe that trend can be reversed or slowed.

The districts decision to close smaller schools and concentrate on mega-monster schools may have something to do with that decline. Or maybe it's something else. Probably a combination of things. Some under the control of the local governments and schools and some out of their control.

What we know for sure is that when parents see their local school closed they start looking for somewhere else to live. The process feeds on itself.

I guess I am all alone out there in observerland (as usual) in thinking it is a greater disservice to the community to ignore a problem than to point it out.

Sandy Donnelly is a fine public servant and an asset to the schools. She spent a lot of (extra) time shepherding my son through high school. I am sure she does the same for others. I would say that even if she wasn't my sister-in-law. However, I get the feeling we won't be sharing any more chestnuts roasting on an open fire during the holidays (unless they're mine).

Bill Call wrote:It took 6 years for the Lakewood City Schools to lose 6% of its student population from 1995 to 2000. It took one year to lose 6% of its students from 2005 to 2006. The loses are accelerating at an accelerating rate.

I have to say that I don't think you can call a long-term trend based off of data for one year.

The districts decision to close smaller schools and concentrate on mega-monster schools may have something to do with that decline.

Just so you understand the new schools aren't "mega-monster" schools. In fact the new Hayes and Harrison schools will house fewer students than Lincoln and Grant. The new elementary schools will house approx 350-400 students, hardly huge schools. The numbers BTW are mandated by the state to receive funding. Soon their will be open houses for the new schools and I encourage everyone to go see them, they are beautiful and will only enhance learning.

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Bill, Bill, Bill

Jim, Jim, Jim!

Sandy Donnelly is a fine public servant and an asset to the schools. She spent a lot of (extra) time shepherding my son through high school. I am sure she does the same for others. I would say that even if she wasn't my sister-in-law. However, I get the feeling we won't be sharing any more chestnuts roasting on an open fire during the holidays (unless they're mine).

Bill, Bill, Bill

Oh, I get it.

The one thing I grew up knowing, I forgot.

Never, never step between two Irish slugging it out, especially if related.

We do agree on Sandy's qualifications, and we also agree that under your statement it could be movement, or age.

Nice looking grandson.



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