The Observation Deck

Agreed. I posted that for the people that might be new to this forum.

For those that MIGHT be new to this forum, and are thinking about the content of this thread, take a look at the this post please,
http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2489

I'm all in favor of neighbors watching out for their streets. Of course, that's one of the definitions of a "community" in my book.

The "moving block watch" sounds suspiciouslyt like "Guardian Angels" to me, but maybe I'm knee-jerking.

But we're not talking random vandalism or even burglary here.

What we're talking about is 100 proof bad behavior. In that case, let's be honest, the stares of a grandmotherly type isn't going to stop a 250-lb drunken 22 year-old from emptying his kidneys on the tree lawn. And if Mr. Baseball Bat tries to stop him, well, you can see where the potential for real danger comes in.

My point about Lake and Clifton was this: Lakewood decided it was a community priority to keep traffic zipping along those streets during rush hour, and anyone who impedes that progress quickly learns the consequences. When do we decide that peace and quiet in the neighborhoods is at least as important as commuter convenience?

I agree with all that a more general awareness of what's going on without eye contact of your front porch is a really good idea. But I also think the buck will ultimately stop with the LPD, via the Mayor and Council.

The mayor sent a tape? OMG!

Ms. Roberts:

Just curious. Have you probed the Guardian Angels website to see how the organization has developed?

http://www.guardianangels.org/mission.html

By the way, I did suggest to Mr. O today that he begin manufacturing LO Super Hero posse capes in order to create through his media empire street theatre, anthropological inquiry, podcasts and video, costumed fun for families and street smarts for young Gen X and Gen Y Lakewood families and children say 3 to 12 - intent on taking back their park, their back yard, their street.

I like the idea of customized training sessions with the Guardian Angels, because Curtis Sliwa has a morning radio show in NYC on ABC, and this could create another brand-building instigation for the Wood.

Although Mr. O is a big fan of capes, this idea was one he would not tie on today.

Oh well.

Kenneth Warren

Ken

My wife said, "If Ken wants to wear capes, he should take ownership of the idea, get capes, wear capes, be proud of his capes."

If you remember I was the one that wanted everyone to dress like pirates. Common fact, most drunks fear pirates. "arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhhh!"




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Joan Roberts wrote:The "moving block watch" sounds suspiciouslyt like "Guardian Angels" to me, but maybe I'm knee-jerking.

Joan

I really see it a very different. Get like minded Lakewoodites together talking or doing what they want to do. Bike Lakewood with a cell phone, walk Lakewood with a cell phone. I have walkers and bikers all hours of the day and night past my house.

Random is another key. Random is not planned, harder to predict.

What I am thinking of, is like minded people walking the streets at different time talking to people about subjects they each want to talk about with FREE COFFEE, PEPSI, PIZZA, and safer street that build the brand county wide.

The on thing I know, Lakewood benefits from a cool tight brand that beats being tough in every category. Cost, value, security, community, friendships, full bellies, and residents taking ownership of their streets and problems.

Neighbors having fun on the streets of their town is much better press than Urban Commandos everyday.

One of the reasons corner bars help a city is the random coming and going. A criminal(not drunk) does not want to work were there is random coming and goings. They want seculsion, empty streets, While bars bring drunks they make a city safer.



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Jim:

Please tell Deb, I did not expect her to sew all the capes for all the LO Woodies in the posse.

Taking her good advice, though, I will not only own my cape and be proud of my cape. I will save my cape for that day long into the future when it will be bequeathed, as I must imagine with all my heart, to a great but heretofore unknown Woodie sculptor, who like Rodin creating the statue of Balzac, will dip it in liquid plaster and shroud the sculpture of the Great Bear placed beneath the hanging flower baskets of Monkey Island.

Kenneth Warren

Kenneth Warren wrote:Jim:

Please tell Deb, I did not expect her to sew all the capes for all the LO Woodies in the posse.

Taking her good advice, though, I will not only own my cape and be proud of my cape. I will save my cape for that day long into the future when it will be bequeathed, as I must imagine with all my heart, to a great but heretofore unknown Woodie sculptor, who like Rodin creating the statue of Balzac, will dip it in liquid plaster and shroud the sculpture of the Great Bear placed beneath the hanging flower baskets of Monkey Island.

Kenneth Warren

chuckle

man you are good

Would that be opposite the corner, where the triangle of four hipsters, no hepsters, plot, kackle, and whistle show tunes from the 40s?


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Yeah, straight across the street from where somebody said there were skateboard homies with blunts pawing the middle school Goth chicks.

Kenneth Warren

Kenneth Warren wrote:Yeah, straight across the street from where somebody said there were skateboard homies with blunts pawing the middle school Goth chicks.

Kenneth Warren

Ken

I think you might have the wrong corner, I am talking about north of Monkey Island (home to Lord of the Mice, where the not ready for prime time skate monkeys, work through adolescents, experimentation, soul searching, and come of age with their friends.) The coolest park in the wood without a view of the lake.



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Mr. O and Mr. Warren.

Everything you describe sounds nice. Pursue it all with my (unnecesary) blessing.

But remember that when you add testoterone and especially alcohol in the mix, the scores change dramatically. The bike gets bent in two and the cell phone tossed into the bushes.

What you propose sounds like a great idea to keep lawn mowers from getting stolen from garages, but in all candor, seems highly ineffective in dealing with a Jaeger-soaked proto-thug. You need guys with bubble gum lights, guns, and the ability to drop someone in the hooskow for a night or two.

As for the Guardian Angels, Mr. Sliwa & Co. have been evolving (reinventing?) themselves for more than 20 years. Would Lakewood stand for those fits and starts?

Joan,
If you check that link in my posting above, it describes what would be entailed and not entailed. The "nots" are the major difference between a vigilante group, or the Guardian Angels, as they started. The Guardian Angels started out as a very physical, and active group, which made it controversial, to say the least.

This is simply some citizens of Lakewood, keeping their eyes and ears open while enjoying our city. No more than that.

If you saw an accident between 2 cars, and were driving by, or walking down the street with a friend, would you not call that in to the police department?
I'm fairly sure you would, as anyone, with a cell phone would .

It's just a very simple way of enjoying a walk, a bike ride, a drive, and if we notice something obviously wrong, then we do our good deed, and make a phone call to the PD.

No more or less than we would do, just going to the store, the park or biking around town.

The point of "organizing it", vs just asking the general populace to do more, is somewhat the same as this forum works, to a degree.
There are some people who read only, as is shown by the number of views per thread, but far less than tha number that post.

Many people prefer to be "onlookers" which is fine too.

Does that clarifly matters a little more?

Joan

Fights with drunks are a no win situation.

All I think we are looking at at this point is as Mark says eyes on the streets.

But we have a pretty good shot at keeping this low level for the long term if we get in front of the problem and people learn tolerant fun city to a point.

Joan as we both know Lakewood has some small problems. Many of these problems could grow to larger problems if not tended to. I do not see Lakewood hiring 20 new police and cruisers, so other options need to be looked at. The easiest, cheapest and most fun is "walks."

I have not wanted to use this example but here goes. As we have seen on TV, when an area becomes a place for drug traffic or prostitution, the police seem less effective then citizens working together. The reason is more eyes. People see police cars and stop doing what they are doing the police car drive by and they start again. Citizens at random times with cell phones, camera phones, coffee and in groups of more than one become their nightmare. They soon move on to other areas. Best we can hope for.

But this only works with the support of the police. in the end the police will be called and will need to write the tickets and take in drunks and thieves. What the police fear is vigilantism. Citizens like our good friend with the baseball bat that is now setting his alarm so that he can confront drunks at 2 am.

Residents have to come to grip with reality at the same time. I have been to many of these meetings and efforts and I am always amazed at the term condoms. You would get the opinion if you have been to enough meetings that the lawns and rail tracks of Lakewood are the home for secret orgies night after night after night. I just do not buy it. The guy who runs AGS Print-wear for me mentioned "soiled diapers" on his front lawn. When I questioned the use of the plural, he admitted it was only one a year ago. We both came up with scenarios for a parent dropping a full diaper off on a tree lawn. appreciated no, but understood yes.

I am not near enough to the bars to hear the racket every night, but we do have some homes in my neighborhood that are filled with young people that enjoy their beer and parties. They get loud, occasionally set off fireworks at 3am, and I have had to question the sanity of drinking games and the porch until 5am. But they are good neighbors, and much better than an empty house.

In my day the Rush Inn was the nightmare, today it is heralded as the perfect example for good bars. I know some of the owners of the new bad bars in Lakewood, they are not bad people, some are downright nice and really want to work with residents. Tim O'Malley owner of Malloy's told me and I have no reason to doubt it that a year ago, he took coupons for free pizza around to neighbors. Most said no thank you we know what you are up to. What he was up to was trying to open a dialog with a small peace offering. The coupon also had his home and cell number on it to call if there was a problem.

I have rattled on again, but I see residents working with businesses with the help and support of the city as a good thing. I also see Kevin Butler's/Mike Dever's meetings with residents and bar owners as another good thing.

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I really think we're talking about two separate things.

One thing is the neighborhood "watchers and walkers". No problem with that, as long as they continue to be good neighbors and not evolve into a self-appointed shadow police force. We all know how these things can evolve.

The second thing is the idea that we KNOW where the problems with bars are. We KNOW the bars. We KNOW the times. In my mind, it's a matter of scheduling patrols in the problem areas during the problem times and establishing a definite police presence. That may involve fewer cruisers on the streets on Thursday afternoons, but the tradeoff will probably pay out.

In essence, I think we can and need to ave what you're talking about...and what I'm talking abut.

I just love the way that these threads progress. It sounds as though McCarthy's has been put on notice to make some changes. Based on the number of visits from the police I would imagine that they saw it coming. The interesting piece of this liquor license transfer as I see it, is that who ever has the property and the license will have a large bar that will be a magnet for trouble. I've met with these guys and they were big supporters of the Wing Cook Off and are very interested in being a part of the community. If it goes to a Hooters for example, do you think that they will be as invested?
As for the parks and the youth behavior, kids are kids but that doesn't mean that adults shouldn't be adults. There will always be those that prefer to complain about the crumbs and those that pick up a broom and do something positive. The Youth Master Plan process is a good example of the latter. It would be great to see those that have concerns join us and help to coordinate solutions to make Lakewood that much better. For a clarification as well this process is not being funded by tax dollars. Those working on this project are volunteering their time in an effort to coordinate the many services that are available and identify needs that may not be addressed. Most importantly, this process is being done with involvement of those that these programs are intended for, the youth of Lakewood.
It was great to hear about the situation at the skate park. Self regulated parks are fantastic but tough to get going. Good to hear that we've already got that there.
It would be interesting in both situations; loud drunks at 2am and kids that are scaring parents, to engage them in the discussion. I've always found it fascinating how the "bully" can quickly change when the right person asks in the right way. Police crackdown and roving bands of neighbors may create more rebellion. A simple redirection from someone that they respect will go much further.

Shawn Juris wrote:...and roving bands of neighbors may create more rebellion.

Shawn

Well at least you understand the premise!



Maybe I am too strict but 165 police calls this year, a table through the front window with 30+ people fighting in the street might have given the owners a HINT there was a problem?

For the record I do not want to see McCarthy's closed but...



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