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Lynn Farris wrote:
But I questioned the biting of a Golden. They had very tender mouths, designed to carry a duck without biting into it.
Goldens are very popular dogs, so there are more of them. That also means that there are an awful lot of very badly bred puppy mill Goldens that have horrible temperaments.
Usually the more popular the breed, the more badly bred examples are in the general populace.
“One of they key problems today is that politics is such a disgrace. Good people don’t go into government.”- 45
I love Rhodesian Ridgeback, bred to hunt lions if I am not mistaken.
The number of bites is a bit of a scam, as favorites usually lead the list. They are also usually the most poorly over bred and screwed up dogs.
I am still trying to figure out how this guy got bit in the face.
DOG BITE STORY
Our male Bordeaux was chewing on a beef leg, when suddenly he swallowed the entire end and started to choke. My wife jumped up forced her hand down his throat almost to the elbow. Grabbed the bone and pulled it out, saving the dog's life. Of course the dog was gagging and teeth broke my wife's skin. We took her to the hospital to get it cleaned out, and the police report was made for dog bite. That was the first count against the dog for bites.
I would like to hear how the guy got bit in the face.
FWIW
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system." Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it." His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lynn – You wrote, “And the study proves my previous statement that children and people in general need to be taught how to behave around dogs.â€
I am not sure if you are referring to a dog’s family/owners or those without dogs simply trying to take a walk around the block with their kids.
I don’t own a dog as I’ve been blessed with three young children and don’t care to clean up any more poop than what’s absolutely necessary.
We walk the neighborhood sidewalks a lot in the evenings and regularly encounter dogs with their owners. Fortunately, I can’t remember the last dog being walked that was not on a leash. And, just last night, two large dogs had muzzles along with the leashes.
Unfortunately, however, there is the occasional unleashed dog in a yard. One runs up to the sidewalk, obeying the invisible fence, and barks its fool head off. The other came up to the sidewalk and snapped at my three year old. (The owners were surprised and concerned to the point that they are planning to install a physical fence.)
Other than telling my children to not approach or attempt to touch any dog and being an observant parent when walking, what sort of training do you have in mind for pedestrians?
I grew up in the South (Vero Beach Florida). When I went to high school there just about every kid I know had pits. It was not un-common to see a gun rack in the back window of a pick up truck and a few pit bulls riding in the back of the truck. Point is I never new anyone that was attacked by any of these dogs.
I had Doberman's growing up myself, another breed that has gotten a bad reputation. We have owned several Rottweilers over the years and currently own a few now. If we put a ban on pit bulls, what breed is next?
I agree there needs to be better control of these types of breeds. I would not be against having to obtain a permit to own one of these breeds, prove that your dog has completed training and is earning or has earned Canine Good Citizen. You should not make people part with their pets, if they can prove that they are a responable pet owner. Grandfather in exsisting owners and ban any new ownership of pitts. Some states have passed laws where no one under the age of 18 can own a pit-bull or even walk one in public, it is the adult of the home that must do that. The most dangerous dogs are the ones that live outdoors on chains, very little contact and socialization.
A lot of insurance companies decided they would no longer cover people who kept pit bulls, rottweilers, German shepherds, or Doberman pinschers. One of the largest insurance companies in North America, Allstate, has a policy that even a mixed breed dog whose bloodlines may include any of those breeds is considered unacceptable. Such policies are a growing trend in the insurance industry. (State Farm - allows everything but pit-bulls and pit-mixes)
ban them. pure ignornance? no, it's pure ignorance that brings these dogs into a neighborhood then has the owner wondering why their insurance will not cover them when they bite someone. I would be astounded if these owners actually had a vicious dog policy in force. This attitude that I find with dog owners concerns me both on a professional level as an insurance agent and as a father who gets concerned when I see a story or walk past a dog that falls into the category deemed a vicious breed. The insurance companies lump these breed together as excluded yet everytime I talk with the insured who owns one their response is essentially but that doesn't apply to me. When a bite does happen and the medical bills come in and the insurance company rejects the claim will the owner really be able to come up with the enormous payment to cover reconstructive surgery? Yes, maybe there are more complaints from other dogs combined and yes maybe it's the owner and not the breed. But the fact remains that the wording of the policy excludes certain breeds. What happens in court may be another matter but that is a tremendous risk to take and for what? I get bothered by those who don't carry car insurance and always seem to be the ones running into others. I feel the same about those who own dogs on the excluded list. They never seem to have obtained proper insurance and have nothing but excuses to justify why they should own this particular breed and why the insurance company is wrong or society is wrong or how it's unconstitutional. Stop the whining already.
What I find as ignorant is this attitude that we should allow everything even if it is a known problem. As it turns out we have one hud subsidized house on my block. It has been white people who have lived there. So you can stow your bs about this being a color issue. Over the past 2-3 years there have been drug arrests and now the new tenant likes to sit out on her porch yelling into the phone about how she would have been arrested for drunk driving the other night. The far end of the block has apartments that are the same way. It's mostly white people but when the sirens come, we know where they are going to the hud subidized apartment. And low and behold what type of puppy is running around in her front yard without a leash? I believe it was a pit bull. I've yet to see it again and hopefully she was just watching it for the morning but what a coincidence. Yes, these are dogs that are common among irresponsible individuals and God bless our political leaders for trying to take a step ahead rather than letting our city continue to be over run with stupidity.
Maybe some have done it correctly and have verifiable insurance for this breed of dog. I would hope that the city would enforce this portion of the law and scrutinize it carefully to ensure that the document presented doesn't read that dog bites are covered unless the breed is excluded.
First of all, I'm not blaming the victim. Of course dogs need to be trained and it is the owners and or breeders faults if the dog attacks. But it is also a great idea to learn some dog saftety tips. Here are mine.
I was using the example that they had in the article. Not to run up to a strange dog and attempt to pet it with the hand coming down from the top.
Never tease a dog - particularily in a negative way and one you don't know.
Some dogs are territorial and I would teach a child to avoid going into a yard of a dog they didn't know if the dog seemed to be protecting the home or yard. Sounds like those are the dogs you encountered on your walk. They are letting you know that they are protecting their house and yard. Unfortunately they most likely think their yard includes the side walk. As an adult walking, I most likely would tell the dog that it's okay or go lay down. I would use a calm, but authoritive voice. But I hear your point loud and clear - these dogs should be out with their owners or in a fence in the back yard so as not to scare children or to cause noise pollution.
Basically from my perspective, you don't want to scare a dog, but you also don't want to act scared by a dog (something that is hard to do if you are scared.). Both sides can cause attacks. Some dogs really become bullies if they sense they have someone who is scared.
I taught our children to avoid growling dogs. It is a warning sign that they don't want to be bothered - of course it doesn't mean that in every dog - but I would definately avoid in a dog I didn't know well. I also would never take food from a dog I didn't know - or toy or anything like that.
Like with any animal, if you want to pet a strange dog, sitting quietly or talking gently with the hand outstretched, palm up and waiting for the dog to come to you and sniff you is the most successful approach. (This approach works with cats, horses, rabbits, squirrels, ducks, geese and most every animal I know. - adding good food treats here helps too.)
I have also found that being the alpha leader often works with strange dogs. This may be more difficult with a child. But if a dog approaches me snarling and growling, I might tell him in an authoritive voice to go home, to sit, go lay down. Use short common comands that a trained dog might obey. Or they may at least decide that you are not the person with whom they want to mess. I have actually found this to be incredibly successful and surprisingly in about 9 cases out of 10 the dog either obeys or leaves me alone, the remaining times the owner appeared and took charge.
Of course, it is also good to be able to read dogs signals well. Our golden was a crazy retriever who wanted to play fetch 8 hours a day. We got yelled at by an older gentleman who was swinging his cane at our dog. Our golden was dancing in excitement thinking he was going to throw the cane so that he could play fetch. I knew the dog and saw the happiness the dance and the bark was meant to convey. The golden just couldn't wait until the man threw the cane. The older gentleman thought the dog was attacking.
But despite everything, you can do everything right and still get bit by a dog. That is why they say to never leave small children alone with a big dog. I have always been around lots of dogs and animals and got bit one time by a neighbor's dog who darted out of nowhere to bite me - he didn't break the skin and it was no big deal - but I was irritated. It was an old cocker spaniel. The neighbor told me the dog hated blue pants and I was in blue jeans. Go figure. Dogs can be crazy too.
Jim,
Yes, Rhodesians were originally bred to hunt lions in packs. They are large but not giant dogs that look pretty fierce, but at home are quiet dignified animals who are incredibly sweet and love to cuddle (they always wanted to sleep with the kids.). They rarely bark - if they do - there is a problem. They are easy to train. Our kindergardener at the time would walk him with no problems and no professional training. He never pulled on the lead and would walk around puddles that our child would splash through. They have short hair and need really little grooming.
But someone asked why people would want a big dog. I liked the fact that no one would mess with us when my husband traveled - which was often. He looked fierce, no stranger knew he was a gentle giant.
Brad, your little reindeer looks adorable and well loved.
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." ~ George Carlin
Shawn, I'm so sorry you had to live through the trauma of seeing a pit bull puppy. How bad are your injuries? Are your children OK? Hopefully, it didn't look like this:
I can only imagine how frightened you must have been.
Your post had little relevance to this argument, except that a neighbor you don't like had one.
Some pit bulls bite. Most don't, and mine (which may or may not be a "pit bull" mix) certainly doesn't.
I love this city. My wife and I are looking to by a home here, because we want to have our family here. But if you, Shawn, and others who buy into media hype and scare tactics get your way, my only choice will be to move elsewhere. Thank goodness I don't have to try to sell a home in this market if that time comes.
I could go on and on about this topic. Maybe an article for the Observer is in it for me if I can find the time. Just wanted to make a comment about the dog charging the Invisible Fence that was referenced above. How long will it take for dog after dog to become aggressive AFTER the Invisible Fence is installed for people to realize what the real problem is?
Yeah, make fun of the guy. That'll clear things up right away. Always feed outrage with dismissal. I perused some of the pit bull sites and that seems to be the main message -- get over it or you're a freak.
I've learned to steer clear of all unknown dogs -- on leashes, off leashes, barking and slamming into windows and doors ... not because of the dog, but because you have absolutely no idea what sort of owner is behind it. You're better off assuming stupidity.
Paul, I suppose you're right, but this topic gets my blood up. I don't think I'm necessarily in the "get over it or you're a freak" group. I understand what our city leaders are trying to do, and I appreciate their motive, but BSL is the wrong way to go about it.
Shawn's argument is exactly the kind of unreason that lies behind BSLs. He knows what he sees on the news, he makes assumptions about his neighbor, assumptions about his neighbor's dog, so I should have to take my boxer/staffordshire mix out of the city? That defies logic.
Your second point is always good advice. People shouldn't contact dogs they don't know. But you are also aware that typically it's the owner, not the dog. The spirit of the proposed ban should be enforced on a case by case basis, not generally applied to all residents and their dogs.
Just a comment on approaching an unfamiliar dog. I had always been taught to hold your hand palm down, as a dog might interpret an open palm as aggression.
How to Meet A Dog
Never approach a strange dog without permission from the owner.
Approach a dog slowly with the back of the hand extended.
Curl your fingers and allow the dog to sniff.
Stroke the dog gently on the chest or shoulder, or under the chin.
Do not pat the dog on the top of the head.
Avoid approaching dogs that are sleeping or eating.
Stand still like a fence post if approached by a strange dog; do not squeal or jump, or wave your arms.
Avoid making direct eye contact with the dog, as this may be interpreted as an act of aggression
Most of those I had heard or seen before save for the "alpha leader" technique. This one is new to me and I'll keep it in mind. Unfortunately, I can't see this working when my kids are walking to and from Hayes Elementary School. However, as an earlier poster noted, there are laws on Lakewood's books that deal with parents and residents that report bad dogs and their owners.
It seems as though, now, that some of our elected officials want to keep us from the danger of being bit in the first place. This leads me to some basic questions.
Did the offering councilman provide the total number of recent Lakewood dog bite incidents?
Are bit bulls determined to be biting more than there fair share?
Is it believed that dog bites incidents are underreported because owners don’t want to call the police on their own dogs?
It’s likely not a coincidence that this ordinance is being debated during the U.S. Post Office’s Dog Bite Awareness week.
P.S. - I have been bitten/attacked by dogs on two occasions. The first time was when I was a teenager playing with my neighbors. I guess I deserved it. Their dog was apparently “protecting†and bit me from behind clean through my jeans and into my calf. I turned and instinctively kicked it hard in the ribs until it let go.
The second time was out on a country road on my dirt bicycle. Two big dogs came from out of nowhere, chased me down and tried to knock me off my bike. One had a hold of my foot while I was kicking its colleague away with my other foot. Luckily, they focused on me as I was yelling for my wife to keep peddling her bike as fast as possible. These canines were likely patrolling their territory. That was fun.
David, I wasn't at the meeting last night, but, to the best of my knowledge:
Lakewood had 44 pit bull complaints in 2007 (not sure what "complaint" actually means).
There is 1 pit bull bite report in Lakewood in 2008.
Pit bulls are not the biggest biters (German Shepherds and Chows are the top 2 according to one site). In fairness, though, pit bulls and rottweilers are responsible for the most fatal attacks.
I think the reporting issue centers on severity. Only the most severe (such as those that require medical attention) generally get reported. I doubt, but don't know, that many dog bites are from one's own dog. Most are from dogs you don't know.
Just as an aside......the alpha leader in the dog world very rarely if ever needs to become aggressive or confrontational. The best advice if a dog is charging would be stay calm, stand still, avoid direct eye contact and look for help if the dog persists. In other words, be a tree. This is the advice you should give to kids. In the heat of the moment, I don't know if they will listen but with this advice pre practiced the chances are better. With this advice followed, the chances of getting bit seriously goes down dramatically.
