Mark,
I am just an advocate of attracting a more diverse group of people to our fine city. Again, Lakewood has tons of empty houses, apartments, condo and store fronts. I am advocating we as a city do more to get a a more diverse group of people into those empty spaces.
One example is the latin community is growing rapidly in northeastern ohio, why cant we be more a part of that renissannce? Lakewood would only stand to benefit by having strong latin presence here.
I am saddened to see the obvious resistance to the idea. The Lakewood "leadership" is typicially quiet. Where does Mayor Thomas George stand on this idea? Kevin Bulter is also quiet.
I always pictured Lakewood as very liberal and open to all, but based on the responses here it is more of "sundown" town I guess.
God Bless America!!!
Terry
What is Lakewood doing to attact more minorities ?????
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Kenneth Warren
- Posts: 489
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 7:17 pm
Mr. Batdorf:
I like your idea about advancing active marketing and good neighbor socialization promotion of Lakewood.
In fact, I like and appreciate much of what you have been posting recently about building up the social fabric of the city.
At the library we have been tracking Lakewood's demographics via cluster segmentation tools. If you take a look at the attached link, you will see that Lakewood's demos are increasingly diverse, in many ways an immigrant gateway. Protecting and growing safe and strong neighborhoods with people from around the world committed to a vision of neighbor helping neighbor is indeed the bright future for Lakewood that I believe you are suggesting in your post.
Incidentally, former NYC Mayor Koch will tell you the single most important development that saved NYC was the influx of hard-working immigrants.
Last night I met someone who told me about a videographer from Shaker Heights who was commissioned in 1998 to make a promotional video about affordable housing and Lakewood for some agency involved in such work.
I would like to obtain the video and see more specifics. Anyway, there may be marketing efforts going not actively known or heretofore disclosed widely.
Perhaps City Hall can elaborate on such Fair Housing marketing strategies.
Check out this link for current descriptions.
http://www.lkwdpl.org/clusters/clusters ... on2005.pdf
I believe we're on the same page, with this one, Mr. Batdorf.
Thanks.
Kenneth Warren
I like your idea about advancing active marketing and good neighbor socialization promotion of Lakewood.
In fact, I like and appreciate much of what you have been posting recently about building up the social fabric of the city.
At the library we have been tracking Lakewood's demographics via cluster segmentation tools. If you take a look at the attached link, you will see that Lakewood's demos are increasingly diverse, in many ways an immigrant gateway. Protecting and growing safe and strong neighborhoods with people from around the world committed to a vision of neighbor helping neighbor is indeed the bright future for Lakewood that I believe you are suggesting in your post.
Incidentally, former NYC Mayor Koch will tell you the single most important development that saved NYC was the influx of hard-working immigrants.
Last night I met someone who told me about a videographer from Shaker Heights who was commissioned in 1998 to make a promotional video about affordable housing and Lakewood for some agency involved in such work.
I would like to obtain the video and see more specifics. Anyway, there may be marketing efforts going not actively known or heretofore disclosed widely.
Perhaps City Hall can elaborate on such Fair Housing marketing strategies.
Check out this link for current descriptions.
http://www.lkwdpl.org/clusters/clusters ... on2005.pdf
I believe we're on the same page, with this one, Mr. Batdorf.
Thanks.
Kenneth Warren
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Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Terry
I am curious, I have always thought of you as a Republican or at least a conservative, and one that would want government out of our lives not stepping in to "help" us live it.
I think especially looking at the bottom line that the city should keep to focus on safe and clean, while letting other groups work to bring in good neighbors.
I agree with Mark that Lakewood is about as diverse as one can get unless your only criteria is black and white. We have gone through many phases as the rental market is like a huge river that runs through the city, ever changing in color, diversity and density. Recently our large Arab population in rentals has been changing over to Albanians, now that to is changing to Serbs and Croatians that are arriving on our shores.
But I do agree with your comment about doing what you can. This is the secret to building a good community. Is each of us doing what we can to bring in good neighbors no matter how diverse. One reason the paper is sent to other cities, and one reason why being part of Google helps to get the Lakewood name out in the world. Far more effective than any city ad campaign.
I am curious, I have always thought of you as a Republican or at least a conservative, and one that would want government out of our lives not stepping in to "help" us live it.
I think especially looking at the bottom line that the city should keep to focus on safe and clean, while letting other groups work to bring in good neighbors.
I agree with Mark that Lakewood is about as diverse as one can get unless your only criteria is black and white. We have gone through many phases as the rental market is like a huge river that runs through the city, ever changing in color, diversity and density. Recently our large Arab population in rentals has been changing over to Albanians, now that to is changing to Serbs and Croatians that are arriving on our shores.
But I do agree with your comment about doing what you can. This is the secret to building a good community. Is each of us doing what we can to bring in good neighbors no matter how diverse. One reason the paper is sent to other cities, and one reason why being part of Google helps to get the Lakewood name out in the world. Far more effective than any city ad campaign.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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terry batdorf
Jim,
My politicial affiations really dont matter here. What does is the obvious resistance to having the addition of anyone of color to our neighbors. Post after post has careful skirted around the idea. But their prose cant hide the feelings of many of th posters here on the LO.
First of it isnt a black-white thing, you and other posters have framed it that way. If you read my posts, I talk about Central and South America, Japan, Africa, Central Asia, the PI. Maybe you think these people are not "good neighbors"
"I think especially looking at the bottom line that the city should keep to focus on safe and clean, while letting other groups work to bring in good neighbors." ---Jim OBryan
I hope you not implying here that our neighbors would not be if we attracted more minorities to our city?
You seem to be ok with the addition of the Albians and the Serbs, do you approve of them simply because they are white? I noticed my idea of attracting more latin community to our city was met with an comfortable silence here.
Jim, Lakewood is not diverse. Probably some people that have not lived outside of northeastern Ohio may think so. But reality, not so much.
God Bless America!!!
Terry
My politicial affiations really dont matter here. What does is the obvious resistance to having the addition of anyone of color to our neighbors. Post after post has careful skirted around the idea. But their prose cant hide the feelings of many of th posters here on the LO.
First of it isnt a black-white thing, you and other posters have framed it that way. If you read my posts, I talk about Central and South America, Japan, Africa, Central Asia, the PI. Maybe you think these people are not "good neighbors"
"I think especially looking at the bottom line that the city should keep to focus on safe and clean, while letting other groups work to bring in good neighbors." ---Jim OBryan
I hope you not implying here that our neighbors would not be if we attracted more minorities to our city?
You seem to be ok with the addition of the Albians and the Serbs, do you approve of them simply because they are white? I noticed my idea of attracting more latin community to our city was met with an comfortable silence here.
Jim, Lakewood is not diverse. Probably some people that have not lived outside of northeastern Ohio may think so. But reality, not so much.
God Bless America!!!
Terry
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ryan costa
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:31 pm
why?
I'm not sure how 'race' equals diversity, or even meaningful variety.
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Phil Florian
- Posts: 538
- Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:24 pm
Well, we can dance around "uncomfortably" about the relationship between race and diversity and culture and so on. But I think a bigger point is what attracts one group of people to an area but not another? I guess my question to Terry (since he started this thread) would be what attracted you to Lakewood and how do you think that would differ from what, say, a Japanese man might look for in a city? Or an Indian couple? Or black family?
All else being equal beyond race/color/creed, what does the person similar to Terry in background, wealth, job, political view, etc. from a race different than Terry see in the city that he does not? What are factors that the city or its current citizens can control to be more attractive to someone to want to move here (if we can identify anything that makes one racial group see the city differently than another).
All else being equal beyond race/color/creed, what does the person similar to Terry in background, wealth, job, political view, etc. from a race different than Terry see in the city that he does not? What are factors that the city or its current citizens can control to be more attractive to someone to want to move here (if we can identify anything that makes one racial group see the city differently than another).
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terry batdorf
Phil,
I think many people including me find Lakewood to at an attractive place to live. But what attracted me to Lakewood make no difference but what attracted me to Lakewood may not attract someone else.
I just believe to improve our city in many way we should do more to attract different types of people. I think Joan talked about how some in Lakewood aproached the Latvian community leaders to promote Lakewood. Why not do more of that? We in Lakewood have so many homes, condos, apartment and store fronts empty and gathering dust. Why not do something about it? That is only one of the ways our community would stand to benefit.
Come on people, do Mr. Warren and I stand alone on this one?
God Bless America!!!
ps Ryan, where in Lakewood do you live now?
I think many people including me find Lakewood to at an attractive place to live. But what attracted me to Lakewood make no difference but what attracted me to Lakewood may not attract someone else.
I just believe to improve our city in many way we should do more to attract different types of people. I think Joan talked about how some in Lakewood aproached the Latvian community leaders to promote Lakewood. Why not do more of that? We in Lakewood have so many homes, condos, apartment and store fronts empty and gathering dust. Why not do something about it? That is only one of the ways our community would stand to benefit.
Come on people, do Mr. Warren and I stand alone on this one?
God Bless America!!!
ps Ryan, where in Lakewood do you live now?
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Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Terry
It has nothing to do with color but has everything to do with real diversity and the real and sincere embracment of all.
The only reason I use the neighbors, the paper, and other groups working to build diversity or more to the point good neighborhoods is I think we as the residents of the communtiy can do a much better job than the city on this issue.
When I look in Cleveland Magazine and see an ad for Cleveland Heights that is paid for by the city, I just pass it by. When a resident tells me how much they love their city I usually take the time and listen.
Word of mouth has always been the best form of marketing.
.
It has nothing to do with color but has everything to do with real diversity and the real and sincere embracment of all.
The only reason I use the neighbors, the paper, and other groups working to build diversity or more to the point good neighborhoods is I think we as the residents of the communtiy can do a much better job than the city on this issue.
When I look in Cleveland Magazine and see an ad for Cleveland Heights that is paid for by the city, I just pass it by. When a resident tells me how much they love their city I usually take the time and listen.
Word of mouth has always been the best form of marketing.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
I think a LOT of people "dance uncomfortably" around the race issue. I know I"M uncomfortable with it, and not because I haven't had some enlightening and frank discussions with Black friends, co-workers, and associates. I have.
The results sometimes make me even more uncomfortable.
I remember several years back when Parma was nailed with some kind of anti-discrimination suit and forced to come up with some kind of governmental "remedy" I remember one of my close co-workers, an African-American, holding up the PD article and saying, "Now, why the hell would I want to live in PARMA?"
The reality remains that most people seek a comfort zone, and the comfort zone includes people who reflect ourselves. How we define "ourselves" is pretty varied. For some, it's race or ethnicity. For others, it's income. For still more, it's age or lifestyle (do 70-year-olds want to live in Coventry or twenty-somethings in Naples, FL?)
Seeking out people who are generally like ourselves is NOT limited to white racists. It's a human condition. The truly integrated communities (Shaker and CH being two prime examples) are relative rarities, not only in Cleveland but anywhere in the country.
I don't think anything short of a free house would have convinced my co-worker to move to Parma. He didn't get it, of course, and is now living quite happily and comfortably in Shaker.
I have no idea what inclusionary zoning" is, but if Lakewood is doing it, I guess it's a good thing. Certainly, any form of discrimination should not be tolerated. Still, the key, I think, is moving beyond statistical fetishes and expectations of government remedies Where one lives, as we have discussed for so long, is an intensely personal choice. At long last, we need to understand that.
The results sometimes make me even more uncomfortable.
I remember several years back when Parma was nailed with some kind of anti-discrimination suit and forced to come up with some kind of governmental "remedy" I remember one of my close co-workers, an African-American, holding up the PD article and saying, "Now, why the hell would I want to live in PARMA?"
The reality remains that most people seek a comfort zone, and the comfort zone includes people who reflect ourselves. How we define "ourselves" is pretty varied. For some, it's race or ethnicity. For others, it's income. For still more, it's age or lifestyle (do 70-year-olds want to live in Coventry or twenty-somethings in Naples, FL?)
Seeking out people who are generally like ourselves is NOT limited to white racists. It's a human condition. The truly integrated communities (Shaker and CH being two prime examples) are relative rarities, not only in Cleveland but anywhere in the country.
I don't think anything short of a free house would have convinced my co-worker to move to Parma. He didn't get it, of course, and is now living quite happily and comfortably in Shaker.
I have no idea what inclusionary zoning" is, but if Lakewood is doing it, I guess it's a good thing. Certainly, any form of discrimination should not be tolerated. Still, the key, I think, is moving beyond statistical fetishes and expectations of government remedies Where one lives, as we have discussed for so long, is an intensely personal choice. At long last, we need to understand that.
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terry batdorf
Jim,
So you are against any and all attempts by local government to attract any new business and residences to Lakewood.
You must be again cities attack on renters and people outside lakewood to purchase rental property. Would you say we should not encourage changing those doubles to singles?
Why would Lakewood want to chase renters out anyway? Face it, Lakewood is a good place for people outside of the city to purchase rental property and profit from it.
I am still disappointed in the response. I thought Lakewood was full of more open minded people. Definately reminisant of the Sundown towns in the 50s and 60s.
God Bless America!!!
Terry
So you are against any and all attempts by local government to attract any new business and residences to Lakewood.
You must be again cities attack on renters and people outside lakewood to purchase rental property. Would you say we should not encourage changing those doubles to singles?
Why would Lakewood want to chase renters out anyway? Face it, Lakewood is a good place for people outside of the city to purchase rental property and profit from it.
I am still disappointed in the response. I thought Lakewood was full of more open minded people. Definately reminisant of the Sundown towns in the 50s and 60s.
God Bless America!!!
Terry
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
terry batdorf wrote:
I am still disappointed in the response. I thought Lakewood was full of more open minded people. Definately reminisant of the Sundown towns in the 50s and 60s.
God Bless America!!!
Terry
You've obviously given considerable thought to this issue.
Have you any suggestions as to what the city might do?
Also, I believe I am misinterpreting something you wrote. Are you equating renters with African-Americans? Would Blacks not be interested in purchasing a duplex converted into a single family home? I'm sure I'm reading you wrong on this.
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Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Terry
You are missing my point. Which is, in a perfect world the city should take a firm stance and work to bring in businesses and people. That is if they have the budget. But Lakewood does not, I can think of hundreds of other places to spend money instead of an ad in USA Today, or even reaching out to schools or whatever.
But that is OK because it is not that effective anyway. So let the paper, the people the students and the businesses be the advertisers and goodwill ambassadors. It is easy and costs very little on the rest of us.
As far as the city, I will lay it out there. I do not think the city is as liberal as you and I want it to be, nor as liberal as they talk.
.
You are missing my point. Which is, in a perfect world the city should take a firm stance and work to bring in businesses and people. That is if they have the budget. But Lakewood does not, I can think of hundreds of other places to spend money instead of an ad in USA Today, or even reaching out to schools or whatever.
But that is OK because it is not that effective anyway. So let the paper, the people the students and the businesses be the advertisers and goodwill ambassadors. It is easy and costs very little on the rest of us.
As far as the city, I will lay it out there. I do not think the city is as liberal as you and I want it to be, nor as liberal as they talk.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
ryan costa
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:31 pm
erik estrada
For a modest fee, Erik Estrada can be persuaded to star in an infomercial to promote Lakewood. Viewers of BET and MTV and young Gold Collar workers can be persuaded to forego spending their bread on gold chains, electronics, shitloads of celebrity endorsed apparel, car stereos, spring break vacations in florida, and college educations: Instead they can just buy a double in Lakewood, live on one floor, and have a tenant pay their mortgage.
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Joan Roberts
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:28 am
I don't know how many African-Americans read or contribute to the Observer, and I certainly don't mean to speak for them. So if anyone wants to dispute my statements or presumptions, I'll stand corrected.
Black folks for the most part DON'T think it's any particular thrill to live around White people. However, like the rest of us, they want safe streets, good schools, and liveable housing. Unfortunately, those qualities have too long been less associated with White communities than Black ones.
Also, African-Americans DON'T want to be told where they can and can't live. Just like everyone else, they want the choice. The CHOICE itself is the important thing, don't you see?
I don't think it's a liberal or conservative issue, unless someone wants to play it that way for political gain (and oh, so many do). However, a responsible position from a modern conservative would be that it is NOT government's responsibility to ensure racial or ethnic diversity in a community, that it is indeed a personal choice.
In the end, your best friend or your sister moving to Lakewood (or Westlake or Huron) will influence your decision more than any government program.
It IS a government's duty to prevent discrimination of any kind, to enforce the law, and to make sure all citizens are treated with equal fairness and justice. Make sure the door is open to a quality city, and quality people will pass through it.
Black folks for the most part DON'T think it's any particular thrill to live around White people. However, like the rest of us, they want safe streets, good schools, and liveable housing. Unfortunately, those qualities have too long been less associated with White communities than Black ones.
Also, African-Americans DON'T want to be told where they can and can't live. Just like everyone else, they want the choice. The CHOICE itself is the important thing, don't you see?
I don't think it's a liberal or conservative issue, unless someone wants to play it that way for political gain (and oh, so many do). However, a responsible position from a modern conservative would be that it is NOT government's responsibility to ensure racial or ethnic diversity in a community, that it is indeed a personal choice.
In the end, your best friend or your sister moving to Lakewood (or Westlake or Huron) will influence your decision more than any government program.
It IS a government's duty to prevent discrimination of any kind, to enforce the law, and to make sure all citizens are treated with equal fairness and justice. Make sure the door is open to a quality city, and quality people will pass through it.