NEW RULES FOR THE DECK!

[Jim O'Bryan]

Well not yet, we are still letting adults say what they say what they think as long as they can prove who they are and they accept responsibility for what they say.
You know, most of us would say, it what we do in daily conversations.

But with so much vitriol in the air, and LO's Sales Rep Maggie asking about Cyber-Bullying, we are looking at defining it and maybe working it into our Deck Code, giving us only our second rule for adult conversation after 250,000 posts not needing it.

ARE THESE THE DEFINITIONS WE WANT?
http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=14032

HERE ARE THE DEFINITIONS WE ARE DISCUSSING

Cyber Bullying
the act of harassing someone online by sending or posting mean messages, usually anonymously.

Cyberstalking
Cyberstalking is a crime in which the attacker harasses a victim using electronic communication, such as e-mail or instant messaging (IM), or messages posted to a Web site or a discussion group. A cyberstalker relies upon the anonymity afforded by the Internet to allow them to stalk their victim without being detected. Cyberstalking messages differ from ordinary spam in that a cyberstalker targets a specific victim with often threatening messages, while the spammer targets a multitude of recipients with simply annoying messages.

and...

Cyberterrorism
According to the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation, cyberterrorism is any "premeditated, politically motivated attack against information, computer systems, computer programs, and data which results in violence against non-combatant targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents."

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We have been a free for all mosh pit of word jazz from day one, is it time to change the rules.

I would like to get some community consensus on this first.

There will also be public meetings, with coffee on this subject. Location being decided.

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[Bill Call]

Well not yet, we are still letting adults say what they say what they think as long as they can prove who they are and they accept responsibility for what they say.

I'm so offended by that statement it actually makes me very afraid.

What if someone says something I disagree with?

What if the Mayor and his pals send the police out to visit me because they don't like what I say? Should you protect me from myself?

What's really frightening is that normally sensible people get outraged over an opinion on the Hospital but have no problem with Lakewood Police "visiting" Save Lakewood Hospital supporters.

[Dan Alaimo]

It feels like we're heading toward a tipping point on Election Day. It might be a good plan to have some rules ready to implement on a temporary basis at that time, if needed.

[Jim O'Bryan]

It feels like we're heading toward a tipping point on Election Day. It might be a good plan to have some rules ready to implement on a temporary basis at that time, if needed.

Dan

I would prefer we are all adults here.

When this who deal was put together, the biggest problems were accountability, transparency, and people hiding and deleting hideous comments that were untrue.

The combination during the WestEnd was staggering. One person using 5 names on the Buzz, battling 4 people using one name. Among the fray were elected officials, journalists, city hall employees and people that benefited from the whatever all hiding, all deleting. Dan you know exactly what I was speaking of. Not everyone was Whiteline, most were hideous people throwing bombs they would never say to your face.

At some point this city needs to get over itself, stop worrying about adjectives and start worrying about content.



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[Gary Rice]

Well.....

As a dear friend recently pointed out to me, wasn't "hope" what remained after Pandora opened that box (technically a jar) releasing all that evil?

Back to the banjo...

[Jim O'Bryan]

Well.....

Back to the banjo...

Anyone? Anyone? A whole bunch of people from BuildLakewood wanted rules.

Gary, let's make some s'mores, do you know "Big Rock Candy Mountain"?

[Gary Rice]

Actually Jim,

Just got back from a wonderful church sing-a-long. Indoors, fortunately, and we covered many wonderful songs. We've done that at the Lakewood Library from time to time, and I'm sure we will again.

There's something about singing together...

No s'mores tonight but we celebrated my 64th birthday. (It's not today, but REAL close) We had some great cake, cookies, finger food, and I got a huge amount of balloons.

First birthday without Dad, so this one's a new experience.

Great to have friends.

There's a lot more to life than disputation. The older I get, the more I appreciate peace.

Back to the banjo...

[Pam Wetula]

Remember that old adage " If you can't stand the heat - stay out of the kitchen!"

Unless someone is physically abusing you, preventing you from getting or maintaining your employment, or is refusing to allow you to respond to their words...they are not bullying you.

When you put yourself "out there", you open yourself up to a response from others...about what you said, how you stated your views, the validity of your views..even how you look or sound while you share your opinions with others. If you are too sensitive of nature to have someone call you a liar, then don't speak out. It is that simple.

Build Lakewood has called Save Lakewood Hospital "old people, whiners, afraid of the future or change, emotional, unintelligent etc... a host of things that do not interfere with SLH's message.

Save Lakewood Hospital (I am a proud member), has called Build Lakewood people lying liars, emotional, unintelligent, uncaring etc...

SO WHAT!!! As long as you identify yourself properly, you should be able to say what you will to your issue adversaries without being called a bully.

We are all adults here!

Furthermore (slightly off topic but still important) for those that say we cannot question those in government or that we are wasting tax dollars when we do (Build Lakewood - Bullock, Pae et al), I quote the following 2 gentlemen:

“It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.” ― Benjamin Franklin

"For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the very definition of slavery'." Jonathan Swift quotes


I personally can stand the heat..so I am staying in the kitchen. If I am in error on an issue or in a statement, then I will acknowledge that fact upon correction. BUT I maintain my ability and personal authority to call things as I see them. If I call someone a liar, a scoundrel, ignorant of the facts or question their motivation for their actions or opinions, then I stand behind my words and am open to rebuttal.

There should NOT be any restrictions to Lakewood Observation Deck posts by those who properly identify themselves, in my humble opinion.

[Dan Alaimo]

from Law.com:
libel
1) n. to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others. Libel is the written or broadcast form of defamation, distinguished from slander, which is oral defamation. It is a tort (civil wrong) making the person or entity (like a newspaper, magazine or political organization) open to a lawsuit for damages by the person who can prove the statement about him/her was a lie. Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue. Proof of malice, however, does allow a party defamed to sue for general damages for damage to reputation, while an inadvertent libel limits the damages to actual harm (such as loss of business) called special damages. Libel per se involves statements so vicious that malice is assumed and does not require a proof of intent to get an award of general damages. Libel against the reputation of a person who has died will allow surviving members of the family to bring an action for damages. Most states provide for a party defamed by a periodical to demand a published retraction. If the correction is made, then there is no right to file a lawsuit. Governmental bodies are supposedly immune to actions for libel on the basis that there could be no intent by a non-personal entity, and further, public records are exempt from claims of libel. However, there is at least one known case in which there was a financial settlement as well as a published correction when a state government newsletter incorrectly stated that a dentist had been disciplined for illegal conduct. The rules covering libel against a "public figure" (particularly a political or governmental person) are special, based on U.S. Supreme Court decisions. The key is that to uphold the right to express opinions or fair comment on public figures, the libel must be malicious to constitute grounds for a lawsuit for damages. Minor errors in reporting are not libel, such as saying Mrs. Jones was 55 when she was only 48, or getting an address or title incorrect. 2) v. to broadcast or publish a written defamatory statement.
Read more: http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx? ... z3oIJ2JBUj

We (and they) need to be careful about this, as do the caretakers of this forum. Sometimes it is a fine line.

[Jim O'Bryan]

We (and they) need to be careful about this, as do the caretakers of this forum. Sometimes it is a fine line.

Why we use real names, and do not delete.

We want comments that the person making them stand behind.

If you notice BuildLakewood seems to trash the messenger, avoiding any and all discussion of facts.

Notice how quiet it got.

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[Dan Alaimo]

If you notice SLH seems to trash the messenger, avoiding any and all discussion of facts.

Notice how quiet it got.

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i started that thread about 'compromise' hoping, but not expecting, some BL folks would suggest something, just to gauge their openness.

Crickets.

I'll make a comment about that there too in a bit.

[Jim O'Bryan]

If you notice BuildLakewood seems to trash the messenger, avoiding any and all discussion of facts.

Notice how quiet it got.

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i started that thread about 'compromise' hoping, but not expecting, some BL folks would suggest something, just to gauge their openness.

Crickets.

I'll make a comment about that there too in a bit.

Dan

If we can't build consensus on this Lakewood is screwed on serious things.

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[Jim O'Bryan]

Kind of weird,

A whole group of Build Lakewood posters, are all welcomed and spoken to politely, they complain of bullying ans stalking and how out of control people on the Deck are, so we start a discussion post some facts and they disappear?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I thought they were serious.


Just for Peter Grosetti.


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[Peter Grossetti]

Just for Peter Grosetti.


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Thanks for remembering, Jim.

As far a as rules go, I turn to Henry David Thoreau: "Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it."

[Corey Rossen]

Kind of weird,

A whole group of Build Lakewood posters, are all welcomed and spoken to politely, they complain of bullying ans stalking and how out of control people on the Deck are, so we start a discussion post some facts and they disappear?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I thought they were serious.


Just for Peter Grosetti.


.

You do realize this sounds a lot like conversations with my kids.

"Dad, I hate you. You're a jerk. Oh yeah Dad, I want to hang out with my friends this weekend - can I borrow some money?"

Corey