Streets, Sidewalks and Curbs, What Are We Paying For?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Last week the City of Lakewood started the Franklin Blvd Street Improvement Project which
includes repaving the street. Normally this seems like hard tedious work, but the last time it
was done, about 6 years ago, it was pretty wild. They brought in the "Jimmy Dimora Street
Painter" that ate the old asphalt and spit new asphalt out the back.


From 2008 - Artist's concept of Jimmy DiMora Street Painter.


2008 Some never stuck.



We were promised 3" - 4" of good top, in effect it went from 2" to 1/4" but as all the neighbors
agreed when the job was done, it certainly was the right color, but the problems were big.
Strange puddling, drainage problems, and it started breaking in a year and coming up in two.




A 4” rise to the sewer was left and the street never drained creating what was known
to the neighbors as Lake George.



So when they started, there was much anticipation as we all wanted it to last more than 6
years, so hearing it would be done right by the city, was welcome news.

I spoke to the construction crew that explained, "We are taking it down to the roadbed, then
we will evaluate the roadbed, put down a solid coat of sealer that will make any cracks
waterproof and bond with other pieces, then we lay down 3" of asphalt and about 1"-1.5"
of top coat that seals it all together as one big waterproof piece.

ARE CURBS INCLUDED? "No, not on this job you don't need them."

OK, Let's rock it.


They get down to the roadbed, well most of the way. My neighbor says, "Boy those cracks
look just like the old road surface." I explain that it IS the road surface, that asphalt is a
material that allows for some expansion and contraction, but when there are deep cracks
and movement it comes through to the top layer, allowing water into the roadbed causing
more destruction of the roadbed. The idea is solid roadbed, solid asphalt, no seams, and
a solid smooth top layer to seal.


With the road completely cleaned down to the roadbed.


The roadbed was so bad there were huge pieces moving around and differences larger than
the 3" of asphalt coming.


Not the solid base we had hoped for.


It was about this time we all started to ask about the curbs. Some property with no curbs
left, and some with huge chunks missing. I mean if the city wants our walks perfect how
about the streets looking right? I asked again, and once again was told, "No curbs!"



So I called City Hall, luckily Public Works is only the 6th thing in the long and cumbersome
message you get instead of a LIVE human being. Cost cutting, hmmmm. Still no answer,
so I left a message, "Calling about Franklin repaving job with questions, please call back."
A couple hours later I got a call from a pleasant woman in the Public Works, with, "Hello,
you had questions about the Franklin Repaving Project?" I said, "Yes, are we getting curbs?"
She replied, "No, Franklin is not supposed to get curbs." I mention the curbs are missing in
many areas, and some have no curbs at all. She replied, "They were not part of this project
besides, residents pay for curbs." I said, "What do you mean residents pay for curbs?!" She
said yes, curbs are the responsibility of residents." I thanked her, turned to my wife and
said, "If we are responsible for curbs, we are calling the police every time the plows hit one."

WOW!

So I look through Lakewood laws online and found an interesting glitch. Under Lakewood
codified ordinances, the laws of Lakewood, curbs are listed under "Sidewalks and Curbs"
so it would make one think, as they are making Lakewoodites pay for sidewalks city trees
and trucks have broken, they might make us pay for curbs too. This needs a trip to City Hall.

Trying to find someone in Public Works/Engineering, no one around.





Hmmmmmm lots of moving around I guess. So I head down to Finance to ask about the streets
and more importantly the curbs. All the desks were empty, I shout hello, and from back
in the corner two people come out to help. I pose the question, "Who pays for curbs?"
They both say, "The city." I ask if they are sure, and tell them the story, and they turn to
each other and admit, they are not sure. "But how could they ask you to pay for curbs?" they say.
I answer, "They make us pay for sidewalks when it is the city trees and trucks that break them."

As I leave I see Jim Anderson at the counter. Jim is just a magnificent person, with deep
knowledge of Lakewood and even deeper love for the city. A perfect person at the desk.
We stop and talk, and I ask him, he is unsure. When around 1:30pm the new Information
Officer (I think) comes in and says hello and asks what I am doing there. I mention besides
being one of the owners of the building I wanted clarification on who pays for curbs? So
he explains to me how I can look it up for myself, service with a smile. He gets to "Curbs
and Sidewalks" and says, "See it is right here." Then finds out what I found out, once "Curbs"
are mentioned in the heading, the term never appears again. He was going to find out and
get back to me, still waiting...

Back to the job site...

Just in time to see this truck that weighs 72,000 lbs drive down the street to check the road bed.




Next the sweeper. This comes down the street to remove all of the loose
particles so that when they spray the next layer down it bonds correctly with both the
roadbed, and the asphalt on top of it.

I ask about the broken roadbed, and I am assured that they will bring a big truck down the street,
this will move the pieces, and allow the sealer to bind them together like one. Cool.


A quick look behind the truck will show just how well it was working.

Next the super sealer that binds everything together before the asphalt.


Here it comes! This has to be some amazing sealant/binder for this!

[img]http://media.lakewoodobserver.com/images_full_res/3800504605f032b84ef01bfd0c195217.jpg/img]
We still have a 4" lip in front of the sewer! Adding 3" to this will not make it better!!!


The roadbed if not destroyed before, is feeling it now!


They have laid down the super sealer that will bind the road bed together and help the
asphalt stick. Look at it, it is sealing nothing, it is adding the color black to the gravel and
dust left behind. I am starting to want a street painter.


Then the first layer of asphalt on the now totally sealed, and solid base.


There goes another huge chunk of curb, and they are not included and no one knows who
has to pay, this is getting troubling.


Cracks on day one growing daily.



But by afternoon they had included the curbs in the road bed, well kind of...

[img]http://media.lakewoodobserver.com/images_full_res/c8423f0ff4b9a6d1224c85019db7d9aa.jpg/img]
They went over the curb with the steam roller, burying it in the road bed, sticking up about 4”.




Meanwhile other streets had bigger issues than mine...





Possibly a misspelling?


Well at least I still have lakefront property with a canyon view.


As the sun sets on the rocky crags, the neighbors have agreed to rename it
"Summers Lake," and I am sure we will be enjoying many great sunsets over it for years to some.

Mayor Summers, I love that you check the small stuff and make sure DowntowN is clean
for the Arts Festival. However the Public Works Committee and some of your staff are
letting you down.

Still waiting on clarification, who pays for curbs and sidewalks when they are broken by
city contractors, again and again?

Public Works Committee, how about doing something...

More photos at: http://lakewoodobserver.com/photoblogs/jim-obryan/franklin-blvd-road-repair-2014

Stay tuned.


.

[Geoff Wopershall]

Jim, That's quite an exhaustive photo journal of the project!

I can't speak to the legalities of who pays for the curbs but I can say a few things about the paving project.

I'd say that the roadbed or base layer looks pretty typical for most resurfacing projects. In many parts of Lakewood and Cleveland the base layer can even be the old brick roadway. Many times these old base layers are cracked and it is rare for agencies to take it down all the way to the subbase or soil layer due to cost.

As far as your observation regarding the old paving job that

We were promised 3" - 4" of good top, in effect it went from 2" to 1/4"

I'd imagine that both statements are true. The paver lays down 3"- 4" but when it comes to edges the operator or side crew members have control over the wings of the paver to taper the thickness at the curb. So, 2" to 1/2" of pavement at the curbs sounds about right however I'd bet the middle of the road had the full 3" to 4". You can see this in your photo of the paver during the current paving job.

The rise in the pavement near the sewer creating the birdbath (or "Lake George" as you call it) looks like the edge thickness of the pavement wasn't tapered down towards the drain.

Hope you find some answers from the City regarding your other concerns.

Full disclosure: I teach a class in Concrete and Asphalt at a local college and have chosen to live on the stretch of Belle Ave that is paved with concrete.

Geoff Wopershall, PE

[Bill Burnett]

Former Mayor Madeline Cain instituted a policy during her term which paved fewer streets each year but did them correctly and to last. My street was one to benefit from this policy. They excavated down to dirt, replaced the roadbed and finished with concrete. It's been 16 years and it still looks as good as the day it was done. It will probably last another 50 years with as little traffic we get on our street. Why this policy was changed is beyond me.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Full disclosure: I teach a class in Concrete and Asphalt at a local college and have chosen to live on the stretch of Belle Ave that is paved with concrete.

Geoff Wopershall, PE

Geoff

Thanks for coming back. It is nice when you can get some answers. I understand as Bill pointed out
the ideal situation. However in a city that is on a tight budget you expect some short cuts. But there
is little purpose in fixing something half-assed. Since this project started I have always been amused
as residents scream for street repair, then scream that people are speeding down it. I have thought
they had just waited another year or two, less speeders, less cost, and happier everyone.

These are not City Crews, City Crews under the direction of Beno, Nickels and others generally do
a good job considering the layoffs and cutbacks. (When do we get that big bonus from DowntowN,
and all the bars that make us like a midwest Kuwait? )

However, I would hope the head engineer, and/or Joe check on the contractors they hired. Again for
the most part the crews working this are working hard, but who knows what was cut to be lowest
bid, as opposed to lowest responsible bid.

But as Bill pointed out, why not do it right, so you do not have to do it again in 6 years?

SPEAKING OF, Matthews, is brick, gets a ton of traffic, and plowing, and remains perfect, why don't
we go to more brick streets?

.

[Bill Call]

It will probably last another 50 years with as little traffic we get on our street. Why this policy was changed is beyond me.

The more expensive government gets the more incompetent it becomes.

[Geoff Wopershall]

Jim,
Using potholes for traffic calming, that's a novel and environmentally friendly solution I haven't heard of before!

I agree with you that the City crews along with Beno and Nickels do an admirable job for the city. And I'd agree that it is responsibility of the owner (in this case the City) to ensure that the contract is completed properly by the contractor. I'm sure that with the bevy of projects currently going on (water main on Madison, repaving projects, etc.), along with the layoffs and cutbacks you mentioned, the City doesn't have a full time inspector on site to provide full time quality control. This may also account for the vacant engineering office in your photos as well. Just a guess though.

As far as concrete or brick roads, it is all a matter of cost. The best analogy I can come up with is asphalt shingle roofs. Why does nearly everyone put shingles on there roof nowadays even though you need to replace them every 15 years? Why not install a clay tile roof that will last 100 years before any major problems? Ans: Asphalt is cheap! Concrete costs more up front but lasts longer. Concrete also is a bit more difficult to replace/repair. Brick is even more labor intensive.

Until oil prices rise high enough, the petro we put in our cars and the petro we pave our roads with will remain the lowest cost option.

Trivia of the Day: Where is the oldest concrete roadway in America? In Ohio!
http://www.asce.org/People-and-Projects ... -Pavement/

[Bill Burnett]

If you wonder about the durability of concrete just travel the streets that run between Hilliard and Center Ridge between Westgate and Magnificat. Those streets were laid in the mid 50's. They are not as smooth as they once were but they are in good enough shape. That's going on 60 years without having to spend the time and effort of a grind and overlay every 5 or 6 years. I am not an engineer but I would think that 60 years is enough time to more than make up the cost difference over blacktop.

[Jim O'Bryan]

If you wonder about the durability of concrete just travel the streets that run between Hilliard and Center Ridge between Westgate and Magnificat. Those streets were laid in the mid 50's. They are not as smooth as they once were but they are in good enough shape. That's going on 60 years without having to spend the time and effort of a grind and overlay every 5 or 6 years. I am not an engineer but I would think that 60 years is enough time to more than make up the cost difference over blacktop.

Bill

This is the kind of thinking we need.

The bricks on Matthews.

I was talking with Ward 1 Councilman, David Anderson the other evening and he is pretty good at
both intelligent dialogue and thinking out of the box, we were kicking around all sorts of ideas. One
of mine was, could Lakewood residents cope with streets plowed to 1/2" in the winter. Do we really
need to see black surfaces, or could we handle it. What if the residents knew we could save $1 mill
a year in repaving, and that would give us better parks?

Jim,
Using potholes for traffic calming, that's a novel and environmentally friendly solution I haven't heard of before!

Low cost, builds community, the most environmentally way to handle it, economic engine for
small locally owned car shops in the city, and very cost effective. We have talked about it for
a long time here, do a search for "pot holes."

Jim,
I agree with you that the City crews along with Beno and Nickels do an admirable job for the city. And I'd agree that it is responsibility of the owner (in this case the City) to ensure that the contract is completed properly by the contractor. I'm sure that with the bevy of projects currently going on (water main on Madison, repaving projects, etc.), along with the layoffs and cutbacks you mentioned, the City doesn't have a full time inspector on site to provide full time quality control. This may also account for the vacant engineering office in your photos as well. Just a guess though.

It is one of those things, I was pretty laid back, but when it gets in your head, "We are paying for
this, and I would make my contractor do better, you got to call. When you need an answer I try to
call and check things out. My story, is true.

If the election was tomorrow, over all the names I have heard, I would vote for Mike for Mayor,
and I doubt that he would change a thing, and that would not be the end of the world. But I
know Mike, he can do better. I am sure he thought the Public Works Committee would be doing
their do diligence as well the whoever overseas this. I would hope they do not award contracts
and never follow up?! I mean we just found out they don't ask for driver's licenses for people
driving city cars, so who knows.

Geoff, thanks for the input, maybe this all ends up looking real good.

What do I know about asphalt or hard work anyway?

.

[Bill Burnett]

I was talking with Ward 1 Councilman, David Anderson the other evening and he is pretty good at
both intelligent dialogue and thinking out of the box, we were kicking around all sorts of ideas. One
of mine was, could Lakewood residents cope with streets plowed to 1/2" in the winter. Do we really
need to see black surfaces, or could we handle it. What if the residents knew we could save $1 mill
a year in repaving, and that would give us better parks?
[/quote]

I have always been of the mind that we should only put down salt near intersections and just plow the rest of the surface. We could save plenty of salt which just gets washed down the sewers and out into Lake Erie. I'll bet if there was a survey of residents most would favor that idea.

[Will Brown]

It is unAmerican to build something that will last.

In school, I had to write a paper. I don't even remember the subject, but I had to do some research on clipper ships; the people who had written on that subject agreed the British build ships that lasted, but the Americans built ships that were faster, and fell apart after a few voyages.

The autobahns in Germany were built by Hitler, and are still in good shape. I returned to Lakewood after I90 had been built, but before it was opened to traffic. We took our kids down there to learn to ride their bikes, and you had to be careful about dropping a wheel into a crack, as the concrete paving was degrading even before it was subjected to traffic. I'm sure the construction met specifications, but I think those specifications were set too low.

If we put the money and time into repaving our roads that would make them last, everyone would be whining about how long it took, and asking when they would get to our street. So instead we do a marginal job, and immediately after it is done, the city comes out and digs it up to replace a sewer line.

I think it is a flaw in the American character; we want instant results, and close our eyes to the increased costs of marginal construction.

[Jim O'Bryan]

UPDATE! UPDATE! UPDATE!


Early afternoon, one neighbor who complained to City Hall and is afraid to be identified found a pile
of rubble piled next to her yard. She had complained about curbs, and mentioned that Councilman
Anderson had been seen in the area around noon talking to contractors.


After pointing out that I am sure it was not a message from City Hall, and if they were mad with
anyone they would have put it at the end of my driveway, Oh! JOKE!

We were wondering what they were doing with this concrete. It was the same as what was under it
and to dig up rubble and replace it with rubble seemed odd to say the least. Then one resident
noticed...


Small chunks embedded in the asphalt...


So we began to theorize that maybe they would break it up and embedded it in the street for
traction, or traffic calming, or who knows what, it was getting weird.


Curbs were marked for replacement. And this is a perfect example of so many issues. Here homeowners worh their asses off to make their yard nice. Look at the curbs. How could anyone
say they didn't need replacement?


And now curbs were marked for replacement, it seemed...


they were everywhere...


... where people complained.

Where people didn't complain...




On the next street over they had marked huge sections to tear up and redo.


While leaving thin strips that will never match up correctly.

The purpose of this thread WAS NOT to get curbs. It was to point out contractors need
oversight and that maybe we should look for it to be done the right way the first time. Digging up this street
for curbs that after concrete is laid, seems to be foolish. Doing the curbs of people that complained
seems to be the same BS that got us in hot water at Kauffman Park. I have said this for decades
none of us what to think of City Hall and what they do. We want government to work well.

To Councilman David Anderson, thank you for your involvement, you have always been a great
representative of the people in your ward, to bad it is so hard for you to get answers from council
and various departments. Thanks for trying.

We still have no idea who pays for curbs, and I am still waiting for the information spin machine
to answer the question he promised to, "Get back to me on."

Now I want to know why two different people calling City Hall on the same day got to
complete different answers. Me, "No curbs in Franklin." from two people and my slightly
scared neighbor, "We will replace curbs we think need replacing." It seems many things
out of City Hall has two complete opposite answers often.

Stay tuned...

.

[marklingm]

Stay tuned ...

From: Matt Markling
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 3:17 PM
To: mayor@lakewoodoh.net; Summers, Mike (Mike.Summers@lakewoodoh.net); david.anderson@lakewoodoh.net; Sam.OLeary@lakewoodoh.net; shawn.juris@lakewoodoh.net; mary.madigan@lakewoodoh.net; tom.bullock@lakewoodoh.net; cindy.marx@lakewoodoh.net; ryan.nowlin@lakewoodoh.net
Cc: Matt Markling; city.editor@lakewoodobserver.com
Subject: "Streets, Sidewalks and Curbs, What Are We Paying For?"

Dear Mayor Summers and City Council Members,

Are all of the curbs on Franklin Blvd. and throughout the City (as referenced at http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12814) going to be repaired by the City at the City’s cost?

The answer appears unclear on the Deck.

Thank you and have a great weekend!

Matt

[marklingm]

The Mayor's response ...

From: Summers, Mike [mailto:Mike.Summers@lakewoodoh.net]
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 4:21 PM
To: Matt Markling
Cc: Anderson, David; Bullock, Tom; Marx, Cynthia; Hagan, Mary; Juris, Shawn; Madigan, Mary; Bach, Maureen; Nowlin, Ryan; O'Leary, Sam
Subject: RE: "Streets, Sidewalks and Curbs, What Are We Paying For?"

Matt,

Thanks for your inquiry. Curbs are not going to be repaired on Franklin.

Each dollar of Curb repair would be at the expense of road surface replacement. The holy grail for Lakewood would be to resurface every street in a 30 year replacement cycle. To do so, would require us to double our current expenditure of approximately of $1.5 million per year.

Our 2013 budget reflected a roll back of ten years to 2002 budget levels. We have reduced over 150 employees to address revenue shortfalls caused by the great recession, Elimination of the Estate Tax ($ 1 million per year), reduction of the State of Ohio Local Government fund ($1.5 million per year), the acceleration of the commercial Activity Tax phase-out by the State of Ohio, (loss of $200,00 per year), the Tri annual property Tax re-appraisal (loss of $400,000 per year). Our 2014 budget reflects a modest increase in our income tax collections. This is a reflection of a slowly recovering economy. Finally some good news!

City Council and I have agreed to work very hard to keep our local property tax at 1.5%. We do so out of respect for the hardworking households who pay this tax and fund our government. 53 of the 59 municipalities in Cuyahoga County have increased their local income tax to 2% or greater. Only six of us remain at 1.5%. of the six of us, two have ballot initiatives that have failed in their attempt to raise their local tax rate to 2% (South Euclid and Rocky River).

The reality of the world we find ourselves in at the local level, including our Schools, is that we must squeeze every dollar harder, and make some regretful tradeoffs regarding services. Curb replacement is one of them.


Michael P. Summers
Mayor, City of Lakewood
mike.summers@lakewoodoh.net
216-529-6600

[marklingm]

Stay tuned ...

From: Matt Markling
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:10 AM
To: 'Summers, Mike'; mayor@lakewoodoh.net; Anderson, David; Bullock, Tom; Marx, Cynthia; Juris, Shawn; Madigan, Mary; Bach, Maureen; Nowlin, Ryan; O'Leary, Sam
Cc: city.editor@lakewoodobserver.com; Matt Markling; Hagan, Mary
Subject: RE: "Streets, Sidewalks and Curbs, What Are We Paying For?"
Importance: High

Dear Mayor Summers and City Council Members,

Thank you for the response.

As a point of clarification, will the City be replacing – at the City’s cost – the curbs, sidewalks, and lawns/yards that were destroyed by the City and/or its contractors on Franklin Blvd. and throughout the City (as referenced at http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12814)?

Matt

[Roy Pitchford]

[sarcasm]
I don't understand the complaints, I've loved driving through the Nicholson Slalom for the last couple weeks...
[/sarcasm]