Traffic Calming Will Not Calm Residents

[Will Brown]

Until I saw those chicanes, I thought the new westbound lane configuration on Hilliard at McKinley was the dumbest thing, where it is two lanes westbound, but if you are in the turning lane you have to merge into the right lane, then swerve into the left lane to make your turn. Since I walk around there, I have observed that most drivers just ignore the lane markers.

But these chicanes, which destroy three parking places, are more confusing. Is the "lane" wide enough for two cars? I guess we'll find out. What is the environmental impact of having engines run longer while we negotiate our passages? Perhaps we could implement rules about horn blowing, such as ships use when passing. That would make the neighborhood safer, if noisier.

Lakewood certainly seems to have a weakness in traffic planning. Can we put a name with this?

[Ben VanLear]

It's been a few days, and the chicanes seem to be working fine. People just slow down a little to navigate, they seem to be able to handle it. There is one right in front of my house. Not sure what all the fuss is about here, they're just some bump outs in the road.

And you guys know the orange bollards are temporary, right? After some time passes and there is data that will allow pre-and-post bump-out speeds the plan is to remove them if they weren't effective or replace them with curbs. I applaud the data-based approach. That, I think, would look very nice. Trees, grass, flowers.

Pretty progressive traffic planning measure, if you ask me. In the long run it is much cheaper this way to achieve the same reduction in speed as more police presence or even speed cameras.

But that's just my opinion. As I said, let's give it a few months and then we can discuss some data.

Exciting discussion about traffic calming, though! (I bet that sentence doesn't occur too often) love the sensationalist thread title!

[Jim O'Bryan]

It's been a few days, and the chicanes seem to be working fine. People just slow down a little to navigate, they seem to be able to handle it. There is one right in front of my house. Not sure what all the fuss is about here, they're just some bump outs in the road.

And you guys know the orange bollards are temporary, right? After some time passes and there is data that will allow pre-and-post bump-out speeds the plan is to remove them if they weren't effective or replace them with curbs. I applaud the data-based approach. That, I think, would look very nice. Trees, grass, flowers.

Pretty progressive traffic planning measure, if you ask me. In the long run it is much cheaper this way to achieve the same reduction in speed as more police presence or even speed cameras.

But that's just my opinion. As I said, let's give it a few months and then we can discuss some data.

Exciting discussion about traffic calming, though! (I bet that sentence doesn't occur too often) love the sensationalist thread title!

Ben,

You seem to be one of the few residents that like this, and are excited they found a way to counter
act the intrusion of McDonald's. I mean I have seen a couple with wait and see, but
overwhelming of those talking with me, do not like it and blame it on a few cranky neighbors.

I do have a video of two police cars nearly taking themselves out at the middle one.

Side note Ben, how long were the Sharrows supposed to last. Some have all but disappeared. http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=12720

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[Ben VanLear]

Jim,
I think wait and see / optimistic is the stance of most of the people I know on the street. That was the atmosphere at the public/street meetings as well.

The information you received that somehow one person or a few pushed this through with a petition is incorrect. This was the result of multiple open meetings with Woodward residents and city officials. There was a lot of discussion similar to that on this thread about enforcement (ie speeding tickets) vs prevention. Woodward residents who now seem baffled by the process or believe that this was the work of one person, and not a street full of concerned citizens, are ones who chose not to attend any of the meetings and voice their opinions prior to implementation.

I'm a big fan or yours, Jim, and the Observer, honestly I am, but I feel like in this case the story that got us to this point on Woodward wasn't told here (or maybe none of the people you talked to read the multiple mailings or attended any of the meetings?). Without the background, I can see how this would be surprising or puzzling and if I can dig up all the old emails and public notices maybe I could write it up.

But, like I said, we'll have data to look at at some point and that, to me, is the best way to judge this sort of thing.

If you want to talk bike stuff sometime I would love to meet with you (I'm generally not a fan of sharrows, so I'll leave that one alone).

Thanks
Ben

[marklingm]

I think wait and see / optimistic is the stance of most of the people I know on the street. That was the atmosphere at the public/street meetings as well.

The information you received that somehow one person or a few pushed this through with a petition is incorrect. This was the result of multiple open meetings with Woodward residents and city officials. There was a lot of discussion similar to that on this thread about enforcement (ie speeding tickets) vs prevention. Woodward residents who now seem baffled by the process or believe that this was the work of one person, and not a street full of concerned citizens, are ones who chose not to attend any of the meetings and voice their opinions prior to implementation.

I'm a big fan or yours, Jim, and the Observer, honestly I am, but I feel like in this case the story that got us to this point on Woodward wasn't told here (or maybe none of the people you talked to read the multiple mailings or attended any of the meetings?). Without the background, I can see how this would be surprising or puzzling and if I can dig up all the old emails and public notices maybe I could write it up.

But, like I said, we'll have data to look at at some point and that, to me, is the best way to judge this sort of thing.

If you want to talk bike stuff sometime I would love to meet with you (I'm generally not a fan of sharrows, so I'll leave that one alone).

Ben,

I had dinner with a very active Woodward couple last night.

They had no clue of petitions, meetings, or the like.

And they aren't happy.

Now, I understand that City Hall loves to schedule "meetings" and, if they get a few folks showing up, it is declared a huge success.

What efforts were taken to speak with the residents who didn't attend the meetings?

Did Mayor Mike Summers or anyone on City Council - or from anywhere within the four corners of City Hall for that matter - knock on doors or make phone calls?

I'm not trying to be adversarial but there really is a "you need to come to us" attitude at City Hall rather than a "we will come to you" attitude.

Folks at City Hall actually say, "I don't take the time to read the Deck. If you have a complaint or concern, you need to send me an email."

I'm not the Mayor or on City Council but, if I were, I would have knocked on every Woodward door and spoken to every Woodward resident, personally.

Not only is it good politics, it's good leadership.

And, by the way, folks at City Hall actually do read the Deck. But let's keep that between us.

Matt

[marklingm]

Lakewood certainly seems to have a weakness in traffic planning. Can we put a name with this?

Mayor and Public Safety Director Michael P. Summers

[Ben VanLear]

Matt,
I wasn't involved directly and I can't speak for everyone else on the street, but I got a flyer a week or so before each of the public meetings. Also, I think people went door to door, but I'm not sure. And then a month or so we got another flyer or two explaining what the implementation plan was. Also, there were emails to the block club email list.

Sorry to hear some people missed the notifications.

Ben

[marklingm]

Matt,
I wasn't involved directly and I can't speak for everyone else on the street, but I got a flyer a week or so before each of the public meetings. Also, I think people went door to door, but I'm not sure. And then a month or so we got another flyer or two explaining what the implementation plan was. Also, there were emails to the block club email list.

Sorry to hear some people missed the notifications.

Ben

Well then, I defer to you on the communication issue, Ben.

I share with folks, "If you have an issue, make it known on the Deck. If you have facts or opinions, put them on the Deck."

I defer to folks who are willing to put issues, facts, and opinions in writing, on the Deck, for everyone to read.

Matt

[Paul Schrimpf]

Ben, hope whatever ends up happening works out for Woodward. But do keep us posted here. If this is perceived to work here, it will likely end up elsewhere, so getting the real scoop from the experience of residents living with it will be valuable going forward. That's as much the point of the Deck as anything.

[Ryan Salo]

The changes have made it more fun for me to drive down Woodward. I just should have been going the legal 34 mph when I recorded it...

[todd vainisi]

I wasn't involved directly and I can't speak for everyone else on the street, but I got a flyer a week or so before each of the public meetings. Also, I think people went door to door, but I'm not sure. And then a month or so we got another flyer or two explaining what the implementation plan was. Also, there were emails to the block club email list.

Sorry to hear some people missed the notifications.

Haha. Way to ruin everybody's "bad city" fantasies! This notion that somehow it's the city's obligation to make sure each and every resident is pulled kicking and screaming to meetings regarding the plans for their neighborhood is a real joke, IMHO. I enjoy reading the deck as it keeps me up on city news, but there is SO much anecdotal evidence posted on these boards ("my friends I've spoken to on Woodward", "the family I had dinner with", etc) that I don't bother to believe much of it at all.

In any case, I'm really glad Ben came forward with some facts about the city's efforts to help the traffic problems, notify residents and hear feedback, and the impermanence of the current setup. It makes it a lot more clear now.

Also, again in my opinion, the last thing we need is to make Lakewood (or return Lakewood) to police state / enemy of the people status like Linndale by having cops running speed traps all over.

[todd vainisi]

I mean, I know people on Woodward too. They have a bunch of kids so they love having McDonald's at the end of their street (that the kids walk down to regularly for cheap ice cream) and they are hating having to search the whole street for a parking spot due to the bump outs.

The point is there are all kinds of different view points and the city is in the unenviable position of trying to please everyone.

Also, if you want calmer traffic... try driving down Hall - the street that is basically Woodward on the other side of Detroit. Its so dang narrow that nobody uses it unless they have to.

[Dru McKeown]

I would think some road striping may help ease the use of Woodward a bit. Having a "centerline" and the parking side indicated would be helpful in illustrating to folks unfamiliar with this road condition how they are supposed to behave. Perhaps this will occur during future "study phasing" to determine how changes to the traffic pattern affect flow and velocity.

I think a chicane is a much nicer solution to traffic velocity than speed humps.

Kudos to the block club and city for allowing a study of this nature to take place.

[marklingm]

Let's all grab our horses and party likes it's 1911!

“Speeding in Lakewood has been a concern since the turn of the last century,” said Mayor Michael Summers. “In fact, one of the very first ordinances passed by the new city council of Lakewood in 1911 dealt with concern over horses exceeding 8 mph.”

http://onelakewood.com/News.aspx?NewsID=415

Seriously, I'm glad to see so many Woodward residents jumping in on this thread and sharing their observations.

Now, for Ulysses S. Grant fun, let's race our horses through the 'Wood and party like it's somewhere between 1869 and 1877!

[Jim O'Bryan]

I mean, I know people on Woodward too. They have a bunch of kids so they love having McDonald's at the end of their street (that the kids walk down to regularly for cheap ice cream) and they are hating having to search the whole street for a parking spot due to the bump outs.

The point is there are all kinds of different view points and the city is in the unenviable position of trying to please everyone.

Also, if you want calmer traffic... try driving down Hall - the street that is basically Woodward on the other side of Detroit. Its so dang narrow that nobody uses it unless they have to.

Todd

Some nice posts. But you did nail something very interesting Hall Ave. If the city had removed the no parking signs all
together, your friend would still be able to walk to McDonalds for cheap ice cream, which is far easier then walking the
second block to Dairy Queen. So they are happy, they have tons of parking, and are happy. And the street with
Parking allowed on both sides becomes an absolute nightmare to drive down quickly.

I certainly understand your comment about "anecdotal evidence" but as far as this case goes, I was talking with residents
off the record, as I was merely taking the time to observe the traffic calming myself. The other night I was invited by
Ben to come over and meet some people "That Love" the traffic calming. So I took him up on his offer and we did about
45 minutes in the driveway observing traffic calming.

Ben likes it as being "progressive" but while we were there not one car slowed down for them. Most seemed to be legal
though one or two were probably over 30 enough to get tickets. We witnessed none of the acceleration out of them that
I had witnessed days earlier.

Ironically, it was Ben's fire hydrant where I made my initial observation. The fire hydrant on the tree lawn had been taken
out by a driver in the past, and it would seem that a slowing down might stop that, except now EVERY CAR doing up or
down the street not turns into the fire hydrant for a short period of time. And snow, ice, alcohol, and I am sure at some
point the second correction fails or comes late and wooooops there goes another fire hydrant.

While standing in the drive way I believe I convinced Ben that I had indeed not only spoke with his neighbors but
managed to get into a deep discussion about politics with the local tea-party guy. who oddly enough was no longer
flying his German flag. (Part of the discussion was if I was Irish-American or American. I told him American was good
enough, I did not starve with my people, and have enjoyed a wonderful American life, and told him, Drop the "German-"
American should be good enough for all of us. I guess maybe he did. )

I found Ben to be pretty damn sharp, it is not everyday you meet a real rocket surgeon, that is as passionate about
biking, and living in Lakewood. As always I love talking with Lakewoodites. Ben thanks for the invite and the time.

So instead of adding 23 signs(they still need 3 yield signs) so 26 signs. They could have removed 7 no parking signs,
and probably made more people/residents happier. Let's be honest we love people visiting Lakewood, but not at the
expense of those that live here. Right?

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