I received a letter at the Lakewood Observer from a concerned parent/resident representing Harrison Elementary School parents who want to make sure that the LO is notifying the community about the Planning Commission Meeting tomorrow night. On the docket is a group applying for a conditional use permit to turn the old St. Greg's church into a bar which will be in the middle of a residential neighborhood, right across from a school.
Here's the letter:
There is a planning meeting tomorrow at Lakewood City Hall at 7pm, on the agenda is Docket Number 05.10.14-- a request to turn a church and rectory in the center of Birdtown-- a residential area, right next to another church and across the street from Harrison Elementary School -- into a BrewPub Sports Bar with who knows how many seats. There is almost no parking, it is a quiet neighborhood getting their collective act together, you have all heard how nice Birdtown is becoming.
Please show up at City Hall tomorrow and help us keep our streets safe, clean and free of the noise and congestion on Detroit Avenue, and Madison Avenue. We are just a quiet neighborhood of families!!!! This is not a business district, it is zoned residential, don’t we have enough bars?
Do we want our children in grade school to have to walk home with drunks on the streets? And look out of their new school on bars and drunks? Do people trying to park in front of our houses so they can go to the bar, and coming back late at night to drive on our streets?
LAKEWOOD RESIDENTS HELP US PLEASE!!!!!
Here is the agenda for tomorrow night. I bolded the item in question.
Planning Commission Meeting
Thursday, June 05, 2014 7:00 PM
AGENDA
PLANNING COMMISSION
JUNE 5, 2014
LAKEWOOD CITY HALL
PRE-REVIEW MEETING
6:30 P.M.
COUNCIL CONFERENCE ROOM
Review docket items
REGULAR MEETING
7:00 P.M.
AUDITORIUM
Roll Call
Approve the Minutes of the May 1, 2014 meeting
Opening Remarks
NEW BUSINESS
Docket No. 06-14-14
14810 Madison Avenue
The Red Rose Cafe
Brian and Rosaleen Kirschnick, property owners and applicants requests the review and approval of a Conditional Use Permit for an outdoor dining facility at the front of their business on a public right-of-way, pursuant to Section 1129.13 - Supplemental Regulations for Outdoor/Seasonal Dining Facility, Section 1161.03(t) - Outdoor/Seasonal Dining Facility, and Section 1173.02 - Planning Commission. The applicants would be required to complete a Use of Public Property Agreement with the City of Lakewood. This property is located in a C2, Commercial and Retail district.
Docket No. 06-15-14
18828 Sloane Avenue
Clifton Pointe II LLC
Roger Bliss, Clifton Pointe II LLC, applicant requests the review and approval for a Lot Split of a single parcel (PPN 311-14-018) to accommodate five townhomes being built on the site, pursuant to Section 1155.07 – Procedures for Lot Splits. Updated drawings are to be submitted. This property is located in an MH, Multi-Family and High Density district.
Docket No. 06-16-14
14701 Detroit Avenue
Bacchanala Wine Store
Manuel Nieves, Gastronomy CLE and applicant requests the review and approval of a Conditional Use Permit for an outdoor dining facility on private property on the north side of the building, pursuant to Section 1129.13 - Supplemental Regulations for Outdoor/Seasonal Dining Facility, Section 1161.03(t) - Outdoor/Seasonal Dining Facility, and Section 1173.02 - Planning Commission. This property is located in a C1, Commercial and Office district.
OLD BUSINESS
Docket No. 05-10-14
2035 Quail Street
St. Gregory’s Church
Tom Leneghan, applicant requests the review and approval of a Conditional Use Permit to convert St. Gregory’s Church into a brewery/restaurant; the parish house would be renovated for residential use, pursuant to Section 1135.03 - Designation of a Mixed Use Overlay District and Section 1161.03(v) - Mixed Use Overlay District. This property is located in an R2, Single and Two-Family district. This item was deferred from the May 1, 2014 meeting.
ADJOURN
Betsy Voinovich
No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
Moderator: Jim O'Bryan
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Betsy Voinovich
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Kristine Pagsuyoin
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Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
Betsy,
There really seems to be a lot to sort out. I became aware of this issue at a recent Harrison PTA meeting that I recently attended, and my first reaction was to question if laws existed to protect schools from certain establishments wanting to operate close to public schools. For instance, I know in some communities that even advertising certain products (like alcohol) cannot be placed within a certain distance of a school. I think most people's response to a bar next to a school doesn't seem to make much common sense. So, I poked around. Here is what I found at http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4303.26:
O. R. C. § 4303. 26
The law requires the state agency to give notice to the authorities operating a school, church, library, public playground, or town park whenever a permit to operate premises is being sought for a location within 500 feet of their property line. The notice must give the authorities the opportunity for a hearing on the advisability of issuing the permit.
It seems like residents need to take this issue up with the school board. If they ask for a hearing on behalf of the residents, do they have the power to say no to a bar near one of our schools? The residents built that school when they passed the bond and they keep it up and running with every levy they pass.
The person who wrote into the Observer makes some good points. I would remind people who may not be very familiar with the Bird Town neighborhood that buildings are very close to one another. I do believe that the proposed bar/outdoor dining would be within 500 feet of the school. Parking is a big issue. I've heard (rumor) that the bar would only be open for dinner, but remember, that workers do arrive early afternoon to prepare for opening--right about the time kids would be getting out of school. Another rumor, is that the business would be permitted to use the school's parking lot in the evening. This is a can of worms that I would not want opened especially as we are rebuilding our new schools (Grant is in the heart of downtown). If we allow one business do this won't all ask for the right to use our schools (taxpayer money) to support their for-profit business? Of course, other questions like how to control the noise, public intoxication, or even preventing child sex offenders from wandering about or too near our schools comes to mind. I think the last thing a family should face after leaving a nice school function in the evening is a loud bar of adults who might not be aware kids and families are around.
So much to sort out and so many questions that need to be asked of City Hall and the School Board. I know the church nearby the proposed bar is trying to fight this, and of course, there are Harrison families that don't want this in their neighborhood or school. We should all imagine how we would feel if it was our kids going to school each day across from a bar--most would not tolerate it. And lastly, is this how we want to promote our city and our schools? Move to Lakewood and one day you too can have your kids attend school across from a bar...
Kristine
There really seems to be a lot to sort out. I became aware of this issue at a recent Harrison PTA meeting that I recently attended, and my first reaction was to question if laws existed to protect schools from certain establishments wanting to operate close to public schools. For instance, I know in some communities that even advertising certain products (like alcohol) cannot be placed within a certain distance of a school. I think most people's response to a bar next to a school doesn't seem to make much common sense. So, I poked around. Here is what I found at http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4303.26:
O. R. C. § 4303. 26
The law requires the state agency to give notice to the authorities operating a school, church, library, public playground, or town park whenever a permit to operate premises is being sought for a location within 500 feet of their property line. The notice must give the authorities the opportunity for a hearing on the advisability of issuing the permit.
It seems like residents need to take this issue up with the school board. If they ask for a hearing on behalf of the residents, do they have the power to say no to a bar near one of our schools? The residents built that school when they passed the bond and they keep it up and running with every levy they pass.
The person who wrote into the Observer makes some good points. I would remind people who may not be very familiar with the Bird Town neighborhood that buildings are very close to one another. I do believe that the proposed bar/outdoor dining would be within 500 feet of the school. Parking is a big issue. I've heard (rumor) that the bar would only be open for dinner, but remember, that workers do arrive early afternoon to prepare for opening--right about the time kids would be getting out of school. Another rumor, is that the business would be permitted to use the school's parking lot in the evening. This is a can of worms that I would not want opened especially as we are rebuilding our new schools (Grant is in the heart of downtown). If we allow one business do this won't all ask for the right to use our schools (taxpayer money) to support their for-profit business? Of course, other questions like how to control the noise, public intoxication, or even preventing child sex offenders from wandering about or too near our schools comes to mind. I think the last thing a family should face after leaving a nice school function in the evening is a loud bar of adults who might not be aware kids and families are around.
So much to sort out and so many questions that need to be asked of City Hall and the School Board. I know the church nearby the proposed bar is trying to fight this, and of course, there are Harrison families that don't want this in their neighborhood or school. We should all imagine how we would feel if it was our kids going to school each day across from a bar--most would not tolerate it. And lastly, is this how we want to promote our city and our schools? Move to Lakewood and one day you too can have your kids attend school across from a bar...
Kristine
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
Kristine
Excellent points,but with the School Board selling a $3 million dollar property to the city for
$100, how tough do we expect push back from the School Board? Seriously.
Mayor Michael P. Summers was a board member with most, Emma comes from City
Hall in what was it, property acquisition(?) or something, and you begin to see just how
chummie and inbred our political system in Lakewood has become.
It is as if they traded players to the other team to make transitions smoother, something I mentioned during the last election.
This is not saying these people are not competent, but one wonders if the School Board will
throw away the $25 million we spent on schools, to have a full service (breweries have full
liquor licenses in the state of Ohio, Beer Engine, Pugs Mahone excellent examples ).
Finally we know that City Hall and the Planning Department put ZERO VALUE on residential
and neighborhoods. Need proof? The law used to state the only name allowed on a business
was one, on the front of the building as defined by the address. Today, residential side
streets are ablaze with signs, still illegal on the sides of buildings. How much abuse?
McDonald's, and Bob Evans largest lit signs are on side streets not Detroit.
Believe me as proven by "Westend Strip Mall," McDonald's, Taco Bell, Bob Evans, CVS,
etc, they loathe quiet residential neighborhoods south of Clifton.
It should be noted, the the owner has already understood the place cannot support parking
which is the single biggest limitation to an occupancy permit, and has offered valet parking.
Which is just skirting the legalities, and tending to the residents and voters.
Please note: for 12 years we have spoken of the ever increasing intrusion of bars and
commercial property into quiet, nice, safe residential areas, and now the full force assault
is on, and we best be prepared.
FWIW
.
Excellent points,but with the School Board selling a $3 million dollar property to the city for
$100, how tough do we expect push back from the School Board? Seriously.
Mayor Michael P. Summers was a board member with most, Emma comes from City
Hall in what was it, property acquisition(?) or something, and you begin to see just how
chummie and inbred our political system in Lakewood has become.
It is as if they traded players to the other team to make transitions smoother, something I mentioned during the last election.
This is not saying these people are not competent, but one wonders if the School Board will
throw away the $25 million we spent on schools, to have a full service (breweries have full
liquor licenses in the state of Ohio, Beer Engine, Pugs Mahone excellent examples ).
Finally we know that City Hall and the Planning Department put ZERO VALUE on residential
and neighborhoods. Need proof? The law used to state the only name allowed on a business
was one, on the front of the building as defined by the address. Today, residential side
streets are ablaze with signs, still illegal on the sides of buildings. How much abuse?
McDonald's, and Bob Evans largest lit signs are on side streets not Detroit.
Believe me as proven by "Westend Strip Mall," McDonald's, Taco Bell, Bob Evans, CVS,
etc, they loathe quiet residential neighborhoods south of Clifton.
It should be noted, the the owner has already understood the place cannot support parking
which is the single biggest limitation to an occupancy permit, and has offered valet parking.
Which is just skirting the legalities, and tending to the residents and voters.
Please note: for 12 years we have spoken of the ever increasing intrusion of bars and
commercial property into quiet, nice, safe residential areas, and now the full force assault
is on, and we best be prepared.
FWIW
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
You know, as I was walking the Birdtown area this morning, I suddenly realized just how out
of touch City Hall and the Planning Department are with the rest of the city, or even more
importantly the history of this great city, and do they even realize they talk out of both sides
of their mouths at the same time.
The Mayor, and some members of council desperate to close a small two hoop half court that
is used about 6 hours a day, by respectful, kinds and young adults, because of noise that
sometimes went as late as 8pm.
Then out of the other side of their mouth they are looking to expedite a potential sports bar,
brew pub in the center of a residential neighborhood, bringing traffic, car doors slamming,
drunks stumbling about until 3am. In the middle of private homes, in a quiet neighborhood,
next to a real church and right across from a grade school.
If you do not think Lakewood City Hall has no respect for voters, residents and our
neighborhoods think about No to parks yes to bars. No courts in parks, but working hard
to put large bars in our quiet neighborhoods.
I believe City Hall has a serious problem with alcohol, their judgement has become
clouded, confused and dependent on alcohol, intervention is the only thing desperately
needed. Hell if they took over Recreation the city would end up with beer pong courts
and Quarter tables everywhere, and valet parking handing keys to drunks all day long.
FWIW
of touch City Hall and the Planning Department are with the rest of the city, or even more
importantly the history of this great city, and do they even realize they talk out of both sides
of their mouths at the same time.
The Mayor, and some members of council desperate to close a small two hoop half court that
is used about 6 hours a day, by respectful, kinds and young adults, because of noise that
sometimes went as late as 8pm.
Then out of the other side of their mouth they are looking to expedite a potential sports bar,
brew pub in the center of a residential neighborhood, bringing traffic, car doors slamming,
drunks stumbling about until 3am. In the middle of private homes, in a quiet neighborhood,
next to a real church and right across from a grade school.
If you do not think Lakewood City Hall has no respect for voters, residents and our
neighborhoods think about No to parks yes to bars. No courts in parks, but working hard
to put large bars in our quiet neighborhoods.
I believe City Hall has a serious problem with alcohol, their judgement has become
clouded, confused and dependent on alcohol, intervention is the only thing desperately
needed. Hell if they took over Recreation the city would end up with beer pong courts
and Quarter tables everywhere, and valet parking handing keys to drunks all day long.
FWIW
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
It would seem that this bar was favored over Chick Holtkamp's Rock Climbing Gym*, which is
why he was then looking at the Christian Science Church on W117 and Lake.
So when the city had the chance to basically choose between quiet, healthy, something
young people love everywhere, and would really bring in people to live there.
They said, no thank you, pass me another drink!
* Chick Holtkamp, it should be noted that Chick, a past Lakewood resident, basically made
Tremont happen, way before any CDC got involved. Chick bought about 17 buildings if
I remember correctly, get them into the hands of people that would dedicate themselves
to the neighborhood, and bought more.
So not only was it clean, quiet, healthy, it was a guy that could actually have made birdtown
viable again, and pretty quickly. Cloudy fuzzy vision, confused,unsure of facts...
City Hall, if you really care about us, and not just yourselves, seek help.
.
why he was then looking at the Christian Science Church on W117 and Lake.
So when the city had the chance to basically choose between quiet, healthy, something
young people love everywhere, and would really bring in people to live there.
They said, no thank you, pass me another drink!
* Chick Holtkamp, it should be noted that Chick, a past Lakewood resident, basically made
Tremont happen, way before any CDC got involved. Chick bought about 17 buildings if
I remember correctly, get them into the hands of people that would dedicate themselves
to the neighborhood, and bought more.
So not only was it clean, quiet, healthy, it was a guy that could actually have made birdtown
viable again, and pretty quickly. Cloudy fuzzy vision, confused,unsure of facts...
City Hall, if you really care about us, and not just yourselves, seek help.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
Jim O'Bryan
- Posts: 14196
- Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:12 pm
- Location: Lakewood
- Contact:
Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
Let's put some facts on the table...
The area, courtesy of Google Maps. Red proposed bar property, Green residential,
blue school, purple churches. Along Madison Avenue is business.
The red zone has to be rezoned as commercial or mixed use, which is easier, and the owner
would have to live on the property, which is a proposed work around.
From the corner of the proposed bar.
A panorama from Thrush and Quail very tight congested streets with parked cars, 8 residential
units north between proposed bar and Madison Avenue business district.
12 units directly across from it, all using parking on the street, directly South a church
and residential units, new school, behind the bar 2 4 families and 10 homes.
Alternative sight, for an upscale small tasteful brew pub, on property hard to move, and
a possible location for our 58th bar, 243rd place to get prepared food in 5 square miles.
The Heideloff house, where neighbors were outraged and fought a $2 million dollar
residential home going into their neighborhood, perhaps a very quiet, upscale,
mico-brewery could thrive with a view of the lake, and plenty of parking!
Food for thought.
Planning Department has NO PLANS, nor IDEAS. When given ideas, they stumble and go
with what they know best, alcohol.
.
The area, courtesy of Google Maps. Red proposed bar property, Green residential,
blue school, purple churches. Along Madison Avenue is business.
The red zone has to be rezoned as commercial or mixed use, which is easier, and the owner
would have to live on the property, which is a proposed work around.
From the corner of the proposed bar.
A panorama from Thrush and Quail very tight congested streets with parked cars, 8 residential
units north between proposed bar and Madison Avenue business district.
12 units directly across from it, all using parking on the street, directly South a church
and residential units, new school, behind the bar 2 4 families and 10 homes.
Alternative sight, for an upscale small tasteful brew pub, on property hard to move, and
a possible location for our 58th bar, 243rd place to get prepared food in 5 square miles.
The Heideloff house, where neighbors were outraged and fought a $2 million dollar
residential home going into their neighborhood, perhaps a very quiet, upscale,
mico-brewery could thrive with a view of the lake, and plenty of parking!
Food for thought.
Planning Department has NO PLANS, nor IDEAS. When given ideas, they stumble and go
with what they know best, alcohol.
.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Lakewood Resident
"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg
"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
-
ryan costa
- Posts: 2486
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:31 pm
Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
well. There are vacant churches everywhere.
Maybe they can find a more suitable vacant church to convert into a brew pub.
Maybe they can find a more suitable vacant church to convert into a brew pub.
"Is this flummery” — Archie Goodwin
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Bill Burnett
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Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
[quote="ryan costa"]well. There are vacant churches everywhere.
Maybe they can find a more suitable vacant church to convert into a brew pub.[/quote]
Agreed. How about the Christian Science church across from the library?
Maybe they can find a more suitable vacant church to convert into a brew pub.[/quote]
Agreed. How about the Christian Science church across from the library?
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Bill Call
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Re: No bars next to schools: Planning Comm meeting Thur 6/5
I had a recent conversation with a resident of Brecksville. He told me he and his wife stopped in at Malley's on Madison for some ice cream. He said he was impressed with the City and thought that Lakewood was an up and coming place. That kind of unsolicited comment is worth more than one hundred advertisements. One hundred such comments don't have the affect that one bad Plain Dealer article.
Can Bird Town be Tremont without the air pollution and crime? What brings Medina residents to Tremont? What makes it special?
At first it was upscale restaurants, then it was newer condos then an increase in demand for apartments. Part of what fed the vibe was millions in subsidies and part was millions in free advertising courtesy of the Plain Dealer. The challenge facing the Lakewood development department is that Lakewood is not eligible for those millions in subsidies and will never get the millions in free publicity from the Plain Dealer.
Will a brewery bring exciting restaurants and new development? Probably not. That narrow window for Lakewood is closing fast. Market forces are nudging it closed and County development policy is pushing it closed. Which brings me to:
If Lakewood officials are not willing to publically challenge County development policy they are wasting their time. Everything the development department is doing is being deliberately undone by Cuyahoga County Government and our very own Ed Fitzgerald.
Development department is too eager and sells the City short. Sometime you are better off with a vacant lot.
The new apartment market is booming:
http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/inde ... _rent.html
But not in Lakewood. Why?
Can Bird Town be Tremont without the air pollution and crime? What brings Medina residents to Tremont? What makes it special?
At first it was upscale restaurants, then it was newer condos then an increase in demand for apartments. Part of what fed the vibe was millions in subsidies and part was millions in free advertising courtesy of the Plain Dealer. The challenge facing the Lakewood development department is that Lakewood is not eligible for those millions in subsidies and will never get the millions in free publicity from the Plain Dealer.
Will a brewery bring exciting restaurants and new development? Probably not. That narrow window for Lakewood is closing fast. Market forces are nudging it closed and County development policy is pushing it closed. Which brings me to:
If Lakewood officials are not willing to publically challenge County development policy they are wasting their time. Everything the development department is doing is being deliberately undone by Cuyahoga County Government and our very own Ed Fitzgerald.
Development department is too eager and sells the City short. Sometime you are better off with a vacant lot.
The new apartment market is booming:
http://www.cleveland.com/beachwood/inde ... _rent.html
But not in Lakewood. Why?