Church of Christ Scientist as Rock Gym?

[Terry Tekushan]

I understand your point painfully well. But this is a critical juncture for this particular building and the community, where a decision of permanence is about to be made. This is where I either speak or hold my peace. I chose to speak. Perhaps I should not have?

The short term banker's argument could have been (and was) made about every successful gentrification and revitalization project out there. So bankers and beancounters are now the arbiters of culture and quality of life? What a gray dystopia. This is what we have come down to. Dogged myopia dies hard. This city would never have been built to begin with if the current culture had any say.

Perhaps we really ARE so poor a nation and immature a culture to understand the qualities and meaning of such an edifice.

Heck, we can't even maintain our national infrastructure anymore.

I propose that we destroy every solid building of integrity and pave the roads with their remains. At least those roads would last forever.

[Gary Rice]

Terry,

You have my complete understanding, and I applaud your right to speak your mind constructively about this, or any topic that concerns you.

Speaking for myself, I've spent nigh on a lifetime fighting the good fight for other good and just causes.

These sorts of activities can wear you down, but should never, EVER, wear you out.

Once in awhile, people do listen.

Back to the banjo...

(By the way, I'm not sure that bankers or beancounters are really a part of the problem. If a person has a well thought-out good workable viable idea, everyone gets on board.

But finding that good idea? THAT's the problem sometimes

[michael gill]

This is not a constitutional issue, Gary. It is not a church and state issue. A government already owns this property. Cleveland put out an RFP. The folks who want to build a rock climbing gym submitted their proposal. It's a business proposal. Its capitalism taking a building off public support. Like any business, they may make it, or they may not. If you support demolition over entrepreneurialism, that's your choice. But that's a good looking building, and we won't see the likes of it again.

[Gary Rice]

I certainly hope that no one would interpret my posts as supporting demolition.

No one would like to see older classic structures like that old church building preserved more than I would.

I just need to go back to the point that I made with Terry. The trick will be finding something that could work here that all sides can live with.

I for one, appreciate both Michael's and Terry's keeping the news about this near-to-Lakewood classic building in the forefront of discussion.

Back to the banjo...

[Bill Call]

If this building was downtown the City and County would be spending millions to subsidize it's redevelopment.

[russell dunn]

In the two months that this post has been up I have been awaiting some response
from a self - identified climbing community member saying that they would patronize
a gym at this location. The business model may be barking up the butt end of an
episodic and upbeat idea that just can't be replicated each time a community has
an empty church on their hands.

Would the lack of enthusiasm from resident climbers indicate that perhaps the
requisite support from ultimate consumers is missing ? I am slightly familiar with
the climbing situation and suggest that if the market isn't beating a path to your
door then maybe you do not have the next mousetrap, however clever.

I would appreciate if any further comments offered would also indicate if the person
has roped up for the wall at Dicks' "because it was there."

Why no supportive input from local gym climbers ?

[michael gill]

Russell, I know a number of Cleveland area climbers. None of the ones I know are readers of the forums here. They also know the decision won't be made here ... As much as some of us care about prominent buildings at our gateways, it's entirely up to Cleveland.

[michael gill]

Well, we always knew it was a long shot . . . now here's Matt Zone confirming the fact, and the likelihood that of the three proposals submitted, the winner will likely be one of the two residential developers.

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index ... ikely.html

[Bill Call]

If the Christian Science Church was a good venue why not the

Friedrich building on Madison?

[michael gill]

The first thing that comes to mind is that the church ... If that proposal were accepted ... Would probably have changed hands for a dollar. Odds are the building on Madison would cost quite a bit more.

The second is that the church was built with huge open space. I assume the storage building has multiple floors in there, which would impede the progress of a climber.

I guess its possible that neither of those are insurmountable. For example, perhaps the entire interior structure of the storage building could be removed.