Let City Council know your opinion about yard sales

[Jim O'Bryan]

[

Your probably right Jim, but I want to be like everyone else here. At least yourt starting to recognize it, that's a good start.

Fortunately this is more of a tongue-in-cheek comment about Internet postings rather than a opinion trying to be passed as fact about the city, it's government, or local happenings.

You know what I'm talking about.



... so back on track. I am curious why some people think (3 or 4) garage sales a year is not sufficient per person. Were there stats that supported that a large group of residents perform more than 4 per year? I wasn't sure if there was a reason supporting those ideas.

John

One small correction, I am not finally recognizing it. I have always known it.

You would seem to be the one finally recognizing it.

When real names are used, you can discuss some pretty delicate things in public because
slander and libel laws come into play, and you get a chance to see and understand who
they are.

Conversations over the digital fence. There are no more "truths" in any other forum in
America. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone has bias, everyone hears rumors, and some
see facts. All we did was construct the digital fence with a leaning post for anyone who
wanted to come in and talk about, well whatever.

In the 9+ years since this started we have hit on some pretty hot topics and I think left the
community better for the discussion. We have talked about everything from midges to
misuse of power, from diversity, to pets, from the hiring of mayors to the firing of
publishers and no lives were lost.

As citizens of Lakewood, we have opinions, points of views, news, photos, humor,
questions, answers, experiences, and more. Are they all 100% true, hardly. What
works for Jim O'Bryan might not work for Mrs. O'Bryan and/or J Hrlec. The conversation, if
viewed with critical thought, and a sense of awareness can shed a huge amount of light on
a vast array of topics and that is not a bad thing.

.

[David Anderson]

Hello, all.

I appreciate the feedback received from this thread as well as the many phone calls and emails.

Again, the effort here is to respond to homeowners about the rules/standards for holding yard/garage sales in Lakewood. The Administration pointed out that our current code is incomplete at best and that some residents have established habitual sales which are placing stress/strain on certain neighborhoods. We wanted to establish a standard rather than allowing each administration determine how strict to be as well as help folks operate successful sales.

As I have stated before, the city isn’t going to be sending crews out on weekends to keep tabs on sales. However, the proposed changes would provide a tool to city officials to solve some issues if someone feels their neighbor is having an excessive number of sales, etc.

The Housing Committee conducted a third lengthy hearing last night regarding proposed ordinance 32-12, adopted the following changes and voted unanimously that the amended version be put before Council for consideration. The changes made are outlined below. I must note that most of not all of the questions raised here were discussed during the hearings.

On Monday, July 9, the Housing Committee voted to delete “… at a single, two- or three-family home in a residential zone” in the preamble and replaced it with “… on residential properties in residential zones …” to allow for sales to be legally held at apartment buildings.

The committee adopted the following changes last night.

Number in one calendar year – current code does not specify any limit; the proposed ordinance suggested “no more than two;” the committee voted in favor of “no more than three such sales.”

Duration for any one sale – current code does not specify any limit; the proposed ordinance suggested “two consecutive days;” the committee voted in favor of “three consecutive days.”

Time of day – current code does not specify; the proposed ordinance suggested within 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.; the committee agreed with the 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. suggestion.

Location on property – current code limits to rear yard or garage (unless specific permission has been granted by the Director of Public Safety); the proposed ordinance suggested no change; the committee adopted “Except as may be specifically permitted otherwise by the Director of Public Safety or his or her designee in case of requests such as street wide or city wide coordinated sales or in cases where it would be impractical or impossible to have a yard sale in the rear yard or garage, sales must be conducted in the rear yard of the property, as defined in Section 1103.02 or in the garage.”

Signage – current code has no specifications; the proposed ordinance suggested “one sign not to be affixed to front porches, utility poles or public property and measuring less than five square feet, may be temporarily displayed on the property of the person conducting the sale one day prior to and during the operation of the sale but not at other times.”

The committee adopted “five signs not to be affixed to front porches or utility poles and measuring less than five square feet, may be temporarily displayed on or near the property of the person conducting the sale one day prior to and during the operation of the sale. All signs must be removed within six hours after the sale.”

I appreciate the work of my committee colleagues and other council members who joined the hearings to dig into these points and discussions. We also had individuals attend hearings to provide their own thoughts on this issue and the proposed ordinance.

Yours in service,
David W. Anderson
Councilman, Ward 1
216-789-6463

[Mike Zannoni]

Generally sounds fine to me, but

Location on property – current code limits to rear yard or garage (unless specific permission has been granted by the Director of Public Safety); the proposed ordinance suggested no change; the committee adopted “Except as may be specifically permitted otherwise by the Director of Public Safety or his or her designee in case of requests such as street wide or city wide coordinated sales or in cases where it would be impractical or impossible to have a yard sale in the rear yard or garage, sales must be conducted in the rear yard of the property, as defined in Section 1103.02 or in the garage.”

I think front yard should be allowable too (as many people already have them, regardless of current code), especially in light of the restriction to only 3 per year at 3 days each. For some this just makes more sense. But I guess it's not a deal breaker.

[Betsy Voinovich]

Hello, all.

I appreciate the feedback received from this thread as well as the many phone calls and emails.

Again, the effort here is to respond to homeowners about the rules/standards for holding yard/garage sales in Lakewood. The Administration pointed out that our current code is incomplete at best and that some residents have established habitual sales which are placing stress/strain on certain neighborhoods. We wanted to establish a standard rather than allowing each administration determine how strict to be as well as help folks operate successful sales.

As I have stated before, the city isn’t going to be sending crews out on weekends to keep tabs on sales. However, the proposed changes would provide a tool to city officials to solve some issues if someone feels their neighbor is having an excessive number of sales, etc.

The Housing Committee conducted a third lengthy hearing last night regarding proposed ordinance 32-12, adopted the following changes and voted unanimously that the amended version be put before Council for consideration. The changes made are outlined below. I must note that most of not all of the questions raised here were discussed during the hearings.

On Monday, July 9, the Housing Committee voted to delete “… at a single, two- or three-family home in a residential zone” in the preamble and replaced it with “… on residential properties in residential zones …” to allow for sales to be legally held at apartment buildings.

The committee adopted the following changes last night.

Number in one calendar year – current code does not specify any limit; the proposed ordinance suggested “no more than two;” the committee voted in favor of “no more than three such sales.”

Duration for any one sale – current code does not specify any limit; the proposed ordinance suggested “two consecutive days;” the committee voted in favor of “three consecutive days.”

Time of day – current code does not specify; the proposed ordinance suggested within 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m.; the committee agreed with the 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. suggestion.

Location on property – current code limits to rear yard or garage (unless specific permission has been granted by the Director of Public Safety); the proposed ordinance suggested no change; the committee adopted “Except as may be specifically permitted otherwise by the Director of Public Safety or his or her designee in case of requests such as street wide or city wide coordinated sales or in cases where it would be impractical or impossible to have a yard sale in the rear yard or garage, sales must be conducted in the rear yard of the property, as defined in Section 1103.02 or in the garage.”

Signage – current code has no specifications; the proposed ordinance suggested “one sign not to be affixed to front porches, utility poles or public property and measuring less than five square feet, may be temporarily displayed on the property of the person conducting the sale one day prior to and during the operation of the sale but not at other times.”

The committee adopted “five signs not to be affixed to front porches or utility poles and measuring less than five square feet, may be temporarily displayed on or near the property of the person conducting the sale one day prior to and during the operation of the sale. All signs must be removed within six hours after the sale.”

I appreciate the work of my committee colleagues and other council members who joined the hearings to dig into these points and discussions. We also had individuals attend hearings to provide their own thoughts on this issue and the proposed ordinance.

Yours in service,
David W. Anderson
Councilman, Ward 1
216-789-6463

Hi David,

Thanks! This is a really great model for interaction between citizens and their elected representatives and their committees.

Thank you for regularly checking in and encouraging participation, and then including people's concerns in the committee meeting. I think if we had clear "reporting out" and "reporting in" systems, we could get a lot done, and a lot of more positive participation and support of improvements to our city.

I wanted to let everyone know that since I first emailed Councilman Powers with my concerns, he has kept in touch with me and kept me up to date on the progress of this also.
Just to let people know that emailing your Councilperson (or some of them) works!

As for the new proposed regulations--

The only one I still take issue with is not being able to use utility poles. I guess that means we can use trees. Is it better to staple posters to trees? The utility poles look like they can take it--- especially if taking down signs six hours after is enforced. Would it be better if we taped signs to the bottoms of the metal traffic signs? That one could use some clarification. I will email my Councilpeople about that, since this hasn't yet been voted upon.

I like that people can have sales in their front yards if it's impossible to use their backyards. I like the broader definition of "residential."

I guess a big question I have is about enforcement. Can I just keep tabs on myself-- like, "Okay, this is my second sale, I have one more left"? Or do I have to alert the City if I want to have a garage sale? Are they keeping a record? I would guess not. I would guess if there was someone abusing the regulations, then the City, or the neighbors, would start keeping tabs. Which I think pretty much works fine.

I have to say, I really wish we had had a chance to weigh in about keeping the parks open. I think a considered debate really helps clarify the different sides of an issue.

David, what is the procedure for overturning ordinances? A petition? I know there are those that would say, "Just go to the park, if you aren't causing any trouble nothing will happen," and in fact, I know that citizens have gotten letters telling them to do exactly that. Letters that say, "you aren't the people we are worried about." But I can't do that with my kids and the attempts I am making to try to get them to respect the law. We can't really lay on the grass and look at the stars if we have to keep watch for the headlights of police cars, nor can we swing on the swings-- which is something that was really fun to do in the hot summer in the dark when no-one could sleep-- if we think the police are going to come. It's a real thing. It impedes enjoyment for all. It's different than the enforcement of the garage sale thing.

Onward.

Betsy Voinovich

[Ahmie Yeung]

I was out of town and then distracted by back-to-school stuff. Can someone please update the status of this? Did it pass council? I do wonder how the "3 per year" would apply to apartment buildings - what if one resident took up all 3 as they tried to clear out to move (or if the resident had passed away and their family members were trying to clear stuff out)? Then the other residents in the building would be in violation, unless I'm reading this wrong. Also unfair for renters in duplexes/multiplexes with the same issue - if one family is moving out at the end of June and has 3 weekends of garage sales, what about if the other family in the duplex is moving out at the end of August - they would be in violation if they also tried to have a garage sale to reduce the excess stuff they had to move. I'm no longer a renter, but I can remember when this would have been an issue for me just 7 years ago when we lived on Eldred before buying our home. I believe it should be "per legal address" instead for clarity (i.e. 123 Madison Apartment B is a different legal address than 123 Madison Apartment C), and yes I agree the signs should have to have to have an address on them.

Regarding signs, I think 5 is basically what is needed for most side streets - one for each direction of traffic on each of the main streets for those of us with a main street on either end (I happen to live between Madison and Hilliard on Victoria), plus one on the front lawn. Nice big arrows help also, folks Despite repeated nudging from my inlaws (who live with us and really don't have a place to be pointing fingers when it comes to calling someone a "hoarder", she says as she eyes her mother-in-law's fabric stash and her father-in-law's mounting number of sea creatures in upwards of 5 aquatic containers and mish-mash of plants in the house & porch) I've yet to manage to hold a garage sale myself. I have attended many over the years, though, and not only do I appreciate the opportunity to save money while keeping useful stuff out of the landfills, I also enjoy the chance to get to know my neighbors a little better (same reason Halloween is my favorite holiday - love trick-or-treating & having costumes as conversation-starters with shy folks!). If it wasn't for yard sales, I wouldn't know that my neighbor a few doors down recently lost her husband to cancer after living on this street for several decades, and that's why her house is falling into disrepair. Now that I know, I hope to be able to do something more constructive than complain to the housing department about the state of the property. More important than my property values are my HUMAN values.

And I have no recollection of the constant yard sales property Mike mentioned on the street... did I stay in the house THAT much last summer to not notice it?? *shrugs* Or we spent too much time out at Cedar Point

[Ahmie Yeung]

oh and I forgot - if council HASN'T passed it as recommended in the above post, I would suggest making it 7pm instead of 6pm, at least on weekdays... so those who don't get to leave work until 5pm and get stuck in traffic still have a chance to take a quick browse

For what it's worth, I have loved garage sales for a LONG time. I got stuck with a sitter for summers throughout most of my childhood, and one of them would tell our parents to send us with some pocket money on Thursdays, then take us around to area garage sales and let us pick out small items (many of which remained at the child care or were gifts for our parents). She knew her neighbors and neighborhood well because of those walks and garage sales, and that's something I've aspired to emulate with my own kids.

[J Hrlec]

http://www.cleveland.com/lakewood/index.ssf/2012/09/lakewood_city_council_approves_3.html#incart_river_default

[Grace O'Malley]

The article states that Brian Powers said that an exemption to the 3 sales per year rule could be granted if the resident applied for one. Apparently, there have already been inquiries about getting an exemption.

Does this set up the city for claims of preferential treatment or even discrimination? They will need another set of "tools," I mean "rules," to cover what qualifies as an exemption worthy excuse and how many times you can request one.

[Grace O'Malley]

When does this take effect?

I was driving down Lake today and see that the "offender" on Parkside was having a garage sale again today. Must be trying to fit some in before the effective date?