City Considers A Change At Kauffman & Madison Parks

[Meg Ostrowski]

Here's an excerpt from Christopher Bindel's report on the February 6th City Council Meeting:

The Director of Public Works, Joe Beno, then asked Council to consider passing an ordinance that would change the closing times of Madison and Kauffman parks. Right now both parks, like Lakewood Park, close at 11 P.M. Director Beno would like to change that to one hour past sunset, unless involved with an organized event. He said they did not believe there was any reason for the two parks to remain open so late at all times of the year. He also said he believed this would help prevent graffiti and loitering in the parks and would give police easier rules to enforce. Council referred the ordinance to the Public Safety Committee for further consideration.

Will this change solve some stubborn problems for the city or raise fear in residents that "these" parks/neighborhoods are less safe than others?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Here's an excerpt from Christopher Bindel's report on the February 6th City Council Meeting:

The Director of Public Works, Joe Beno, then asked Council to consider passing an ordinance that would change the closing times of Madison and Kauffman parks. Right now both parks, like Lakewood Park, close at 11 P.M. Director Beno would like to change that to one hour past sunset, unless involved with an organized event. He said they did not believe there was any reason for the two parks to remain open so late at all times of the year. He also said he believed this would help prevent graffiti and loitering in the parks and would give police easier rules to enforce. Council referred the ordinance to the Public Safety Committee for further consideration.

Will this change solve some stubborn problems for the city or raise fear in residents that "these" parks/neighborhoods are less safe than others?

Meg

Yet another move by a city hall that is clearly in over their head, trying to correct problems
that have manifested itself out of the very policies that have come out of city hall, or through
what one of the Observers noted was "management through benign neglect."

So no Lakewoodite can use the park one hour after sundown because of a few? What
happened to the security cameras? What does this mean for the parking lots? So once
again the city basically announces the city, especially the downtown area is so unsafe
that we must now lock it down at sunset?

Lets be honest, when a city announces they have a problem with "loitering in the parks"
we really need to look at what has gone wrong.

I do not think these parks are anywhere near as unsafe as the muni lots, so do we shut
them down? What are the actual crime statistics for Kauffman Park. Have the police even
complained about not being able to patrol Kauffman Park?

So let me get this straight because I know one council member will cry I am being
negative by asking questions. So let me get this straight, City Hall is saying the only real
park, in DowntowN, the one behind the new glorious refurbished Strip Mall, that will soon
be the home to Quaker Steak and Lube is so unsafe, they have to lock it down?

Why is City Hall punishing honest residents, because of kids with sharpies?

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[Bill Call]

Lets be honest, when a city announces they have a problem with "loitering in the parks"
we really need to look at what has gone wrong.

Didn't you get the memo? Everything is fine.

[Edward Favre]

Park Curfew is nothing new. It has been on the books for at least 40 years I know. Back in the day, drinkers left broken beer bottles in the parks that kids had to dodge the next day. Whatever the problem, fact is that not a lot of good stuff goes on in dark, secluded parks.

Whatever the curfew, it should be as simple and easy for the public to understand and authorities to enforce as possible and practicle. Along with this goes the design of parks and structures. They need to be as open, visible, and easily patrolled and maintained as possible.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Park Curfew is nothing new. It has been on the books for at least 40 years I know. Back in the day, drinkers left broken beer bottles in the parks that kids had to dodge the next day. Whatever the problem, fact is that not a lot of good stuff goes on in dark, secluded parks.

Whatever the curfew, it should be as simple and easy for the public to understand and authorities to enforce as possible and practicle. Along with this goes the design of parks and structures. They need to be as open, visible, and easily patrolled and maintained as possible.

Ed

In a prison, everything should be easy to patrol. But in a clean safe city, patrolling should
be easy.

If we are to believe Christopher report, and the guy goes out of his way to be factual, and
fair. The city has announced this because of graffiti and loitering?

If this has been the policy for 40 years, why did the city need to announce it then? Seems
like more scary new from City Hall? What happened with all of those security cameras?

As I mentioned before it would make more sense to me right now to read this about the
muni lots, not the parks, unless I missed something other than junior high kids with sharpies.

I mean it is not like the gang fight between W65 against Webb/Midnight Market/Roman
Fountain gangs of the 70s. Which took place in Kauffman Park.

As this is Ward 2, let's look back at the promises the Councilman Who Brags About
Collecting Cool Graffitti in his ward on his facebook page said.

So 5 years into...
A Safer Lakewood


Tom Bullock: New Leadership To Make Lakewood Safer


Of course 4 years later he still brags about the cool graffiti in Ward 2. Won't this decision hurt
his collection?

Or are the honest hardworking residents of Ward 2 losing their freedom and park at night
from his inability to deliver on a single promise to Ward 2 residents?

.

[Meg Ostrowski]

Whatever the problem, fact is that not a lot of good stuff goes on in dark, secluded parks.

Perhaps the change should apply to all parks equally.

If only these two are to close earlier, will the problems just move to other parks?

Maybe someday there will be enough "light" to populate all of our parks with responsible residents.

[Betsy Voinovich]

Whatever the problem, fact is that not a lot of good stuff goes on in dark, secluded parks.

Perhaps the change should apply to all parks equally.

If only these two parks are to closer earlier, will the problems just move to other parks?

Great! If you move to Lakewood, get ready for lockdown after sunset, everywhere that's public. Move here! Start a family! On our beautiful summer nights, stay on your front porch.

Most people would be walking, walking dogs, or running in our parks after dark, I would guess. Except for the people doing not good stuff in the dark. Without the parks, they could be anywhere! Everywhere.

I'm not really sure about this issue to tell you the truth. But the best use for Kauffman Park isn't to close it. Where's the skating rink? I thought the baseball field was going to be flooded and we could skate? (Well I guess the weather hasn't been suitable.)

We have a public park in the middle of our city, it's huge and beautiful. If it had more attention paid to it, it wouldn't be a place for lurkers. How about maybe just one picnic table?

Betsy Voinovich

[Edward Favre]

Here are a couple other pieces of information.........

The old hour after sunsent closing provision did apply to Webb, Edwards, Wagar (Rosewood), and Cove. Kaufmann and Madison were 11 because of late night baseball (for those of us who remember recreation baseball) and softball at lit fields. They did not start a new inning of a game once closing time came.

As far as flooding the baseball field is concerned, that used to be done at Lakewood Park at Stone House Field. That was also when that field was of poor quality and before the improvements. Flooding damages the field that costs $$$ to restore for summer use.

[Jill Jusko]

According to the initial post, the proposal by Joe Beno has been referred by City Council to the Public Safety Committee for further consideration.

I hope those who are against the proposed change share their views with City Council. This forum may be one method to do that, but I would not let it be the only method.

[Jill Jusko]

I agree that whatever the curfew, it should be simple and easy to understand. To me, "an hour past sunset" doesn't seem simple or easier to understand than an actual "time." At least for a user of the park. Lots of gray area.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I agree that whatever the curfew, it should be simple and easy to understand. To me, "an hour past sunset" doesn't seem simple or easier to understand than an actual "time." At least for a user of the park. Lots of gray area.

Jill

People who have something to say should reach out and at least contact their council people,
but many can't and I am glad the LO can supply this open honest forum.

With that said.

“A city street equipped to handle strangers, and to make a safety asset, in itself, our of the presence of strangers, as the streets of successful city neighborhoods always do, must have three main qualities:

Walking around Cain Park at midnight in late fall, months after the last concert about
12 pm. Please notice the 7' gate keeping us at bay from getting on the stage.


Walking behind the stage talking cities, music, parks, life.


With flash.


Finally walking into the front of the park there is more activity.

My point is this. Cain Park is not in the best neighborhood in the county. Yet, they are able
to maintain a safe environment, and a park many can use based on getting people in, not
keeping them out.

A busy street is a safe street, a busy park is a safe park. If the problems are as small as
sharpies, and people relaxing. I think we should be working on attracting more people.
Why not turn the hilly property into an area for BMX and off-road bikes. Low maintenance healthy, creatively quiet, and popular.

In the great words of Jane Jacobs... The Death and Life of Great American Cities

“A city street equipped to handle strangers, and to make a safety asset, in itself, our of the presence of strangers, as the streets of successful city neighborhoods always do, must have three main qualities:

First, there must be a clear demarcation between what is public space and what is private space. Public and private spaces cannot ooze into each other as they do typically in suburban settings or in projects.

Second, there must be eyes upon the street, eyes belonging to those we might call the natural proprietors of the street. The buildings on a street equipped to handle strangers and to insure the safety of both residents and strangers, must be oriented to the street. They cannot turn their backs or blank sides on it and leave it blind.

And third, the sidewalk must have users on it fairly continuously, both to add to the number of effective eyes on the street and to induce the people in buildings along the street to watch the sidewalks in sufficient numbers. Nobody enjoys sitting on a stoop or looking out a window at an empty street. Almost nobody does such a thing. Large numbers of people entertain themselves, off and on, by watching street activity.”
― Jane Jacobs, The Death and Life of Great American Cities


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[Peter Grossetti]

Wanna do something about it, or learn a thing or two? ... attend this meeting:

The Public Safety Committee will meet Monday, February 27, 2012 at 6:00 PM in the Jury Room of Lakewood City Hall, 12650 Detroit Avenue, Lakewood, Ohio. The following items will be discussed:

Communication from Councilmember Powers regarding amending 506.04 & Corresponding PROPOSED ORDINANCE NO. 2-12 – AN ORDINANCE amending Section 506.04 of the Codified Ordinances, Exception, Registration and Fee, for the purpose of permitting temporary exceptions to the prohibition of pit bull dogs and canary dogs benefiting licenses veterinarians and animal hospitals and approved animal rescue organizations. (PLACED ON 1ST READING & REFERRED TO THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE AT THE 2/6/12 REGULAR MEETING OF COUNCIL, PLACED ON 2ND READING AT THE 2/21/12 COUNCIL MEETING)

Communication from Public Works Director Beno and corresponding PROPOSED ORDINANCE NO. 16-12 Parks Closing Times - Public Works Director to control Park Hours by Season and Events in an effort to curtail vandalism (1st Read 2/6/12, 2nd 2/21/12)

Ryan Nowlin, Chair
David Anderson, Shawn Juris; Members
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE

[Meg Ostrowski]

Thanks Peter, you beat me to it.

It is wonderful "talking to good neighbors over the digital fence" but if you really are passionate about a topic, you have to do more.

[Betsy Voinovich]

Thanks Peter, you beat me to it.

It is wonderful "talking to good neighbors over the digital fence" but if you really are passionate about a topic, you have to do more.

Hi Peter and Meg---

Yeah, starting with where the pros and cons are being discussed and decided upon is a great idea. Though these meetings are not Events on the City's website but have to be searched I think under Public Notices, you can find them all! I'm going to start a different thread with this info so it's easy to see.

Thanks for posting it Peter. Still meaning to answer your post from maybe two weeks ago now and underlying causes and conditions. But I haven't had the time! Another underlying condition.

Betsy Voinovich

[Peter Grossetti]

Betsy - No rush to answer. We'll hook up. (actually I should have introduced myself Sunday morning at The Root as I was there yacking it up with Wonderboy Nadhal).