Architectural Review:McDonalds tonight 6:30, City Hall

[michael gill]

Generally speaking, Lakewood buildings are not pretty. With a few exceptions—like the Masonic Temple and St. James—what they are is representative of the era that defined the city. They are true to their era. They are a good fit for re-use by small businesses. They are distinct from the disposable, often trademarked quality of architecture in, say, North Olmsted. They’re built to last and be re-used. They’re not fake.

This one in particular is a two-story mixed use building—apartments (occupied) above, and storefronts (2 out of three occupied) on the street level.

And within the spectrum of streetcar era architecture in town, the Detroit’s white tile front makes it somewhat distinctive from the much more common red and brown brick. It’s an example of what gives the city its character—a character that attracts people.

Franchise architecture designed for thousands of highway exits across the country does not attract people. It’s designed to move them through, like a digestive system, sucking off a bit of their money and spitting them out the other end with fat and grease. If you heard McDonalds presentation at ABR, that was made perfectly clearl. Likewise if you saw the very similar discussion (without the demolition of a theatre) a year + ago in University Heights. Demolition to make room for more of that gives the city less appeal.

And it’s not just about one building, any more than piling straw on the backs of camels is about the individual stalks. It’s the cumulative effect.

The church at Detroit and Arthur is fenced for demolition. Already we have the likes of Burger King, Taco Bell, Dairy Queen, and a variety of beleagured ‘70s era shopping strips—all of which replaced other examples of streetcar era architecture-- pocking Detroit with their parking lots out front, just like North Olmsted.

Discussion of the Detroit is just the current occasion for an ongoing battle between those who believe that distinctive places matter, vs. those who think a place like Lakewood should just bend over for anybody with a bunch of lawyers and a fist full of cash to do whatever they want in the place we live. We live here. We walk here. We care what it looks like, smells like, sounds like. The people concerned about this are people who are committed to the city: Out of all the places in Northeast Ohio, they chose Lakewood. They pay mortgages.

I think it’s good for the city to have residents who care about their living environment and are willing to stand up for what the place looks like.

We’re going to lose the Detroit. I don’t think there’s any real question about that. I think the question is, can we—the city, its various institutions that promote our “walkable, bike-friendly lifestyle” and the appeal of the streetcar era—can they use this occasion to plan for the future, so that as the years go by, that asset continues to serve the city well.

[Valerie Molinski]

Valerie,
Good post. One question for you, and here I presume you are speaking strictly of the facade; In describing the building as marginal, do you mean as compared to an ideal, or to what is already on the street, or to a likely McDonalds proposal?

I guess I am being flip using the term 'marginal' and injecting personal opinion on the matter. I was mainly responding to the criticism of the building itself in this thread that it is 'ugly' or 'doesn't matter.' I understand that the tile and the marquee itself may make the building more significant. I guess I was comparing it to an ideal, in that it is certainly not the best example out there. I realize that according to the Historical Society, perhaps, or the National Register, it could possibly be the 'best' or 'only' intact example in the area.

For me, personally, while I care for the theater and for the era that it represents, I am not a huge fan of it. I was more in love with the idea of a local movie house and what that represents than the actual building itself. The last few times I was in or near it, I was frustrated by the lack of overall care it seemed to be receiving as well. The storefronts on the eastern corner were a bit of a mess with all of their signs too.

Changing gears here...
I've spent some time in the last few weeks looking up McDonalds' designs. They range from very modern to very typical- the ones you see at every highway exit. The very modern ones appeal to me in a lot of ways- innovative use of materials, installation of Emeco stools and other modern furniture. I am not sure if that is what the rest of Lakewood would like to see there or if it even 'fits.' I also think we would never get a McDonald's like this in a million years because I get the sense that Lakewood doesn't rate high enough on the 'caring scale' by McDonald's:

[Michael Loje]

Valerie, where is that McD's? I personally would want to keep the present facade of the theater kept and incorporated into new construction. But if it had to go, I would prefer a style like that as opposed to some pseudo-classical junk.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Valerie, where is that McD's? I personally would want to keep the present facade of the theater kept and incorporated into new construction. But if it had to go, I would prefer a style like that as opposed to some pseudo-classical junk.

Michael / Val

While I agree with many of the points. I cannot help but remember what one "twenty-some" person said
when she saw he Rehabed-Bailey Building... "Oh I really loved it with the slabs and slit windows. Maybe
some day they will bring that back too!" Many of these things are fads of the moment or current trends.

I have zero input on what would be correct, and will trust ARB.

I have to say though the fight for keeping the facade confuses me. The building is pretty non-descript
even when talking of other building in the 40s and 50s. I would rather see the fight go to John's Diner
where they just covered up even more one of the rarest diners in America. A white porcelain one. Which
also brings in many of the elements that are in the Detroit Theater.

At this point it would make sense in saving the 1.5 theaters that are left. Westwood/Hillard would need
a multi-lottery winner to fix it and buy parking space.

FWIW

.

[Michael Loje]

Jim, very simple. Taking the entire building into account, the only thing considered to be significant is the facade. Not the auditorium, or any other part of the building. We as lay people use certain terms to describe this and other buildings such as "attractive" or "ugly'. Architects and preservationists have given the Detroit facade their highest praise; words like "appropriate" and "contributing". I would be willing to bet that nothing McD's would design and build would get that kind of praise.
By the way, the Detroit was built in the 20's, not the 40's or 50's. And if you think it's nondescript, you've got very, very high standards. Let me ask you the same question I asked Thealexa; which buildings do you consider attractive?

[Thealexa Becker]

Mr. Loje, I answered you before on another thread that I like the new Library, which is like the only building other than a house that is distinct enough for me to think of off-hand. But this is NOT about the other buildings on Detroit. And as to when it all stops, it stops when people start BEING PROACTIVE about businesses and buildings in their city and not bemoaning the loss of an infrequently patronized theater.

No, we are not Crocker Park. Evidence of that is the fact that the people who should have been going to the Detroit Theater if they really cared about it probably were going to Crocker Park to see movies. Think about that.

I like the city of Lakewood, but sometimes I feel like people on this Deck go overboard in their praise for the city as it is right now. It's a nice city. I enjoyed growing up here. But we should not be so afraid of change.

Also, the Detroit Theater IS ugly. I have long had this argument with art enthusiasts. Just because something might be "significant or representative" or "appropriate and contributing" (two words which hardly sound like praise to me) of a period of architecture or art DOES NOT mean that it is attractive or that I should like it. I feel the same way about the Detroit Theater as I do about those goofy paintings at the art museum of a big red square. The more people talk about how important this building is the less I like it. It's starting to get like the Emporer's New Clothes. Say it enough and it must be true because no one wants to sound like a layperson and use the word "ugly". Well I'm saying it. It's UGLY.

And if no one likes the retro McDs, just ask for a posh one. They have one in London. Three floors, sliding doors.

[Dustin James]

I don't really know much about this stuff. I lived in Lakewood long ago and heard about the Detroit being torn down. If that happens, so be it. But just as an exercise - (and there should be others by more qualified people than me), I thought about what if the theater stayed and worked in cooperation with a McDonald's as a single destination entity? What if the concessions were from McDonald's via a pass-through shared lobby? What if McDonald's wanted to try it out as a concept restaurant? Even serve beer and wine at night while watching a first run movie? Try out different food fares, like California pizza, or nachos. So leave the front alone. Paint the tiles with epoxy resin a light butter cream color. Move the marquee over to the west and retain one side as theater. Renovate the other side as McDonald's complete with skylight and modern furnishings. Have the drive through on the side and in back.

detroit-after.jpg (103.76 KiB) Viewed 2243 times

detroit-before.jpg (88.72 KiB) Viewed 2243 times

[Dustin James]

Here's a possible topographical view just for the drive through and parking, not showing any skylights. The idea is to keep as much structural building intact as possible. The evening show for adults could have two showings and serve beer/wine/food. Possibly work with the church across the street and neighboring businesses for overflow parking. It just seems to me that with some creative thinking, a solution might be found that would look the part architecturally, yet be new, different and revivalist in terms of destination. I don't know, just trying to think outside of the bun.

topview.jpg (101.18 KiB) Viewed 2205 times

[Kate McCarthy]

Dustin,

Interesting concept and to me the best case scenario if McDonalds is going to buy the property. There's a McDonalds in Shrewsbury England on a medieval street where the original town walls are an integral interior design feature. But in England McDonalds has had veggie alternatives on their menus for over 20 years. Seems to me if a community demands it, McDonalds will bend to those demands.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Thank you, Mr. James for sharing those renderings. May I ask who did them? They did an excellent job. What a neat idea. I wish the McD's was a more "hip" restaurant but...

What if we took this idea and applies it to the other theater that's empty in town. On Hilliard. There is an excellent local restaurant, Italian Creations, right there. It could adapt to that type of client, maybe offer wine. I'd love to go to a Theater similar to the Cedar Lee without a 45 minute drive. Parking is a issue there and the City needs to help deliver a creative solution. Cleveland Heights added a parking garage on Coventry that is always full.

People want to see something positive come from McDs cannibalizing Lakewood. Lets not do something to benefit McDs, let do something to help others willing to try something. Perhaps the current owner of the Detroit Theater would be interested in trying another theater.

[Thealexa Becker]

What if we took this idea and applies it to the other theater that's empty in town. On Hilliard. There is an excellent local restaurant, Italian Creations, right there. It could adapt to that type of client, maybe offer wine. I'd love to go to a Theater similar to the Cedar Lee without a 45 minute drive. Parking is a issue there and the City needs to help deliver a creative solution. Cleveland Heights added a parking garage on Coventry that is always full.

We have that already, it's the Capital Theater. Too bad it's not in Lakewood.

[Dustin James]

Hi,
Thank you, Mr. James for sharing those renderings. May I ask who did them? They did an excellent job. What a neat idea. I wish the McD's was a more "hip" restaurant but...

What if we took this idea and applies it to the other theater that's empty in town. On Hilliard. There is an excellent local restaurant, Italian Creations, right there. It could adapt to that type of client, maybe offer wine. I'd love to go to a Theater similar to the Cedar Lee without a 45 minute drive. Parking is a issue there and the City needs to help deliver a creative solution. Cleveland Heights added a parking garage on Coventry that is always full.

Thanks Donald, I drew this up myself. Unfortunately I've not learned 3D modeling software, or it could look more compelling There should be one or two small trees out front and the marquee was traced from the Google street photo, but goes out of perspective when moved west- stuff like that. It's just Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. Regarding the comments about McD's hipness, I tend to agree with Kate. Some of this may be about speaking the same language with them. If instead of pushing back at McDonald's, you met them as partners, could you persuade them to make this a concept restaurant? Show them the picture and see what they say?

If it's a franchise group, they would not have the ability to bend the rules of engagement with their strict McD's charter. Franchisers have no room to experiment. But if it's a corporate store, to Kate's point, communities can hold sway, if in fact they are speaking for the consuming public. McDonald's wants to sell product and always has. Observe what their coffee products have done. Many think they (McDonald's) are the devil incarnate, why I don't know, I ate hundreds during my lifetime. But if they want a footprint in the community, I suspect they are going to find a spot somewhere.

The one picture posted by Valerie above is actually quite nice looking. Even their newest stores that are basic CB are decent looking. The only point I was suggesting was maybe present this to the architects and to McDonald's and the city. See if a creative dialog could start where everybody feels like they are getting something. The big issue being, don't lose the Detroit landmark. If it mutates a little, that could be expected. Many buildings along the Detroit corridor have evolved over time. The question for the ABR is how much change is too much?

Donald, this is not to exclude the possibility for the Hilliard (is it Westwood?) Theater. But from what O'Bryan mentioned, that renovation might take several hundred thousand $ to make viable. I agree it would be a cool concept. It worked wonders for a little single theater here in the art district of San Marco. http://www.sanmarcotheatre.com/ They added beer/wine and expanded menu, no matinees and it's thrived ever since.

The reason this may be compelling is that McD's has to spend some money (not something very many people are doing -or CAN do these days). So this was a conceptual attempt to make lemonade out of lemons instead of scaring them off. I mean if you could go to the Detroit, see a first run movie while having a beer or hot cider in the winter and some interesting fare was available (Maybe McD's would try some new things, who knows?). Sure it would be far hipper if Melt or one of the many local eateries could pull off this combo idea, but capitalization is an issue. So maybe an old dog like McDonald's can do new tricks? Maybe the community can be persuasive in a business-way for them to see the advantage of not tearing down the Detroit, but instead modifying it?

[Michael Loje]

Nice work, Dustin. You've got the idea of what the finished project should look like. Knowing McD's, they would want to be the sole occupant, unless a developer got involved to do something with the rest of the building.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Well, You sir are quite talented. If you master the 3D stuff, and have the hours needed to spare, I'd love to see a rendering of the Peninsula. When Savannah was showing it at her BFA show, someone said, can you imagine flying into Cleveland at night and seeing the Peninsula from the air? You would feel compelling to stop there before you left. That comment put the picture into my head and I've been wanting to see it since.

You are right, McDs is spending dollars here. It would be amazing if they opened their eyes at some of the suggestions people, like yourself, are presenting. They would end up with a showcase McDs that would have been worth the cannibalization and well supported by all in the community. It would show their intelligence in taking full advantage of the site they selected.

[Dustin James]

Thanks Michael and Donald.

Michael, you're right, the mixed use part is a challenge. But there was a time when McDonald's first experimented with mini-theme parks on their property, some of them fairly large. This could be a conceptual extension. New things get tried when they have never been tried before. If this worked in Lakewood and they got good at it, I'll bet there is at least 50 other communities across their business domain, that might also have theaters that could be "converted" into food/entertainment destinations. If McDonald's did this, they could write off the extra cost of doing it, to good will, public relations and reputation management. They could take full credit for working with an older community to come up with a win-win solution. Theaters dating back into the 1920's always made their money on concessions. They could sell a lot of McFlurry's for a movie.

Donald, like J. O'Bryan, I too am a huge fan of the peninsula idea and what a fabulous job Savannah did with it. The 3D modeling would do wonders for bringing it to life for people. It will be some time before I learn it, if ever, but it might be cool for Savannah to return to her school and seek out someone in architecture with the skills and collaborate on taking the vision further. Maybe someone could do it as a school project or thesis based on Savannah's groundbreaking work and ideas. Just a thought